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CNN Talkback Live

Catholic Priest Arrested for Child Rape; Where is Rilya Wilson?

Aired May 02, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE.

Of course, you just saw that news conference with the lawyer for Gregory Ford, who says he was sexually abused by Reverend Paul Shanley years ago. Well, we are talking about that case today. Shanley has been at the center of this sex abuse scandal that has rocked the archdiocese of Boston. And today, he was arrested on charges of child rape.

Right now, let's bring in CNN correspondent Jason Carroll in Boston. And with us here in the studio, CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jason, let's start with you. What prompted police to arrest Shanley?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me go back a little bit and explain between what has happened out here. Basically, what has happened is the district attorney here in Middlesex County basically felt as though she had enough evidence -- she had done an extensive investigation -- she felt as though she had enough evidence to arrest retired priest, Father Paul Shanley, on three counts of raping a child with force. They made that arrest this morning at his apartment in San Diego. You can see there that video coming to us from our affiliate out there in San Diego, early this morning. Father Paul Shanley being arrested for allegedly raping a child.

The district attorney says the abuse happened between 1993 (sic) and 1990 at St. John's parish in Newton. According to the district attorney, the victim is now 24 years old. That victim -- I want to clarify something here because I know it gets a little bit confusing, but that victim is at this point unidentified. That victim is 24 years old. That victim telling the district attorney that he was told by Shanley that no one would believe him if he told about the abuse.

Now, there is another case that is going on here as well, Arthel. That is a separate case. It is a civil case involving Greg Ford and his family, his mother and his father. Just a short while ago -- you can see there, that is Greg Ford there in the middle; his father, Rodney; his mother, Paula; their attorney, Erik MacLeish. He just gave a press conference just a few moments ago where he described, saying that he was pleased that the criminal process was going forward, saying that those people who he represents, the victims that he represents, still want to see church reforms go forward. He also had indicated that the archdiocese must recognize sexual acts committed by clergy, it is a crime. He says there can be no one- strike policy, no free pass. It is zero tolerance or nothing.

So what you have here is during the Ford case, the Fords convinced a judge to have hundreds of documents turned over from the archdiocese of Boston, those documents relating to Father Paul Shanley. Those documents were very damaging. They showed that Father Shanley allegedly supported having sex between men and boys. Also here, showing that the archdiocese had been warned on numerous occasions about Cardinal -- excuse me, about Father Shanley.

These documents were so damaging, in fact, that many in the community have called for Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law to resign simply because under his watch, Shanley was moved from parish to parish even though there had been all of these allegations of abuse. The district attorney had pointed out that when all of these documents were released, there was a lot of media coverage about it, and that then encouraged other victims to come forward, like this unidentified victim who has yet to be identified, who caused -- who came forward and said that he too had been abused by Father Paul Shanley, and that because of that, we saw the arrest today in San Diego -- Arthel.

NEVILLE: And help me understand this, Jason. I understand there are two separate cases now, and this unidentified victim now that has precipitated these criminal charges...

CARROLL: Yes.

NEVILLE: What prompted this? Do you know what made this particular victim finally speak out and go to authorities as opposed to going to the church and archdiocese where obviously people were not getting any kind of resolution?

CARROLL: It's a good question. Apparently what happened is that according to the district attorney, this victim heard about all of these documents coming forward. He heard about all of these additional allegations that Father Paul Shanley was faced with. And once he saw that all of these documents had come to light, he found the courage then to go to the authorities and say that he too had been abused by Father Paul Shanley, that according to the district attorney from Middlesex County. That's what she said earlier today when she gave a press conference on this particular issue.

NEVILLE: OK. Jason, stand by for me. Jeffrey Toobin, it's getting complicated here, lot of legalese. Help us understand, now that there have been criminal charges filed, how and in what way would this affect the civil case, the civil lawsuit?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they are very much related. The criminal case will always go first. That always has priority in the system. The family of Greg Ford wants damages against the archdiocese. The -- what is going to happen next is Paul Shanley is going to have to plead guilty or not guilty and then that case will be resolved.

Based on how that is resolved, the civil case will move forward and that is going to determine how much money the archdiocese is going to have to pay for this father's apparently extensive record of pedophilia.

NEVILLE: But now that there have been criminal charges filed, then that means, depending on how everything unfolds from this point, that this Paul Shanley could face jail time?

TOOBIN: Paul Shanley almost certainly could face jail time. He's 71 years old, but these are very serious charges. Pedophilia, having sex with minors, force sex with minors, carries very heavy penalties. He is very much looking at a long jail sentence. And if he is convicted or pleads guilty, that will only compound and add to the financial pressure on the archdiocese to settle or somehow come to terms with the civil litigation that is preceding at a rapid clip.

NEVILLE: OK. I am running out of time here, but I want to get this out too because everybody has been asking about this, how high up can this go? Everybody wants to know if Cardinal Law is -- eventually going to face any sort of criminal charges?

TOOBIN: Cardinal Law -- it is looking worse and worse for him, although it is far from clear he will be prosecuted. He is scheduled to give a deposition in the -- to give testimony in the civil case in June. He is now apparently asking to have that delayed. One of the things that, not clear why, but one of the things that lawyers will tell him, he is now definitely within the realm of this investigation. One question is going to come up: Will Cardinal Law take the Fifth Amendment, refuse to give a deposition? Those are the kind of questions that are coming up, for a cardinal, you know, a prince of the church.

NEVILLE: True. But if he is summoned to court, then he has to talk.

TOOBIN: No. You never have to talk. You can always take the Fifth. But how can you continue in office if you take the Fifth?

NEVILLE: What do you mean? If you are in court, you can say I plead the Fifth on the stand?

TOOBIN: Any day of the week.

NEVILLE: Man, I need to hear from Cardinal Law on this. I think a lot of people want to hear from him on this.

TOOBIN: Well, a lot of people want to hear from him. A lot of people want to see him go too.

NEVILLE: Thank you. And, Jason, I know you were standing by. Quickly, I have got to run out, but do you have any idea when we might expect a trial in the criminal case?

CARROLL: Very good question. Well, the first thing that has to happen here is Father Shanley has to be extradited from San Diego. He has got to be brought here to Massachusetts, where he will then be arraigned. And at that point, a trial date will be set, but I would just be guessing at this point.

NEVILLE: OK. Jason, thank you so much for all of that in-depth coverage on this story. And, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for clearing up all the legalese involved.

OK, and when we come back, an unbelievable story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(voice-over): Lost in the system more than a year ago, now simply lost. What happened to little Rilya Wilson. We will discuss it next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE everybody.

The question everybody is asking is where is Rilya Wilson? She's the little girl we told you about yesterday. Florida child welfare officials thought she was with the grandmother. The grandmother thought the state was taking care of her. And this has been going on for more than a year. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti has been working the story from Miami.

And, Susan, I understand that another child was removed from the grandmother's house last night. Fill us in on the details?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Late yesterday, that little girl, Rilya Wilson, had two siblings, one full sister and the other one, a half-sister. And one them was removed yesterday and police tell us that the second was removed today.

Officially, the state Department of Children and Families has no official comment on this. However, a source close to them has confirmed this information. And so, there is still a lot of investigating to be done. As a matter fact, we've learned that there is an ongoing criminal investigation now.

State officials saying that they are looking into possible criminal charges against, for example, the case worker in this case. They want to know whether indeed she falsified documents in this matter. As you and I discussed yesterday, they had documented that she had falsified documents in another case. And now they are saying they have some indications that the same thing happened here. For example, state officials say that they have information that she submitted expenses for visits that did not take place in this case. In other words, putting in for car expenses and the like -- Arthel.

NEVILLE: Help us understand why did authorities -- first of all, who took the other sibling from the grandmother's house? Why did they take that little person? I don't know if it was a boy or girl. And who is going to gain custody now?

CANDIOTTI: Again, Rilya had two sisters, these are the two siblings. So they are picking both of them up, and that is to say the state taking them into state custody. We understand one of them had already been a ward of the state, in effect, who had been staying with the grandmother. The other one was not in state custody. But both have been taken in while the investigation continues, from what we understand, just to be sure that neither child is hurt while this investigation continues.

NEVILLE: OK. Susan, I want to bring in Jack Levine in this conversation. Mr. Levine is the president of the Center for Florida's Children. Thanks for being here, sir.

JACK LEVINE, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR FLORIDA'S CHILDREN: Thank you.

NEVILLE: Now, you know, it comes to mind if these two siblings are now going to be in the custody of children's protective services, this is the same agency that lost track of little Rilya. So that doesn't seem to be a good idea.

JACK LEVINE, CENTER FOR FLORIDA'S CHILDREN: I guess, like the old woman who lived in a shoe, we have so many children, we don't know what to do.

There are lots of complications in this tragic case. And we hope it is not going to end in the true tragedy of death. But we also know that, of the 60 children who have died from abuse and neglect in the last two years in Florida...

NEVILLE: Sir, I'm sorry. I'm going to cut you off, sir, because I really would like you to address this. Honestly, people here in this audience, people at home, they want to, why can something, how can something like this happen? And now these siblings are going to be put in the same services, the same care of the same agency that did not take care of them.

And you, from the Center of Florida's Children, I would like you to answer and help us understand, are these kids going to be safe? Will they get lost in the system?

LEVINE: We have no way of predicting that.

But the track record of the 60 children who died of abuse and neglect in the last two years under the supervision of the department, 80 percent of those deaths were preventable. So, we know that we are in crisis. And every day, another 400 children are coming in to the department for investigation.

So, this is a fast-fast-moving agency with a lots of children. And we are very worried about children tonight, absolutely. There are 25,000 children in Florida who are under the jurisdiction of the department for being abused and neglected. And we are worried.

NEVILLE: Susan Candiotti, I understand that, yesterday, the mother of Rilya spoke to reporters. In fact, we have that sound I would like to share with you and everybody at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA WILSON, MISSING GIRL'S MOTHER: How can you condemn a mother for making mistakes and say you could take better care of her children than she can? But you just -- how in the hell does a whole state department lose a 5-year-old child? Who doesn't know any better?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: I want to let you know where Rilya's name comes from. The mother says it is actually an acronym for "Remember I love you always" -- R-I-L-Y-A.

Obviously, the mother is distraught by this unfortunate case here.

And, Susan, I understand that it gets even more complicated, in that perhaps the grandmother is not really the grandmother and she may be a godmother?

CANDIOTTI: Well, reportedly, that is what the mother has said.

However, state officials and the police continue to tell us that, in fact, the grandmother is the maternal grandmother of Rilya Wilson. And this is a mother who clearly is under distress. Remember, she is someone who lost her children to the state because of a drug problem that she had and that the father had.

This is a woman who is now trying to pull her life together and who is very disturbed about the disappearance of her child that can't be accounted for. We don't know precisely when it was that she saw her child the last time. But she has indicated in these interviews that she did yesterday that she may be contemplating a lawsuit if these children cannot be accounted for.

NEVILLE: Oh, man that is interesting, an interesting twist, because I am sure there are people at home thinking, wait a minute, here's -- and placing no fault on anybody. Until we walk in someone's shoes, we don't know.

But you kind of think, well, here is a woman who had problems with drugs and therefore her children were placed in the custody of the grandmother. Now this happened. And so some people are going to look at this lady and say, "Well, how are you going to sue this agency, because, if in fact, you were in touch your children either by telephone, letters or something, then you would have had an idea that your child was missing for a year or more?"

CANDIOTTI: Well, clearly, she is under a lot of strain right now. And remember that, legally, her parental rights had been terminated in this particular situation. So, some of what she is saying may simply be because she is feeling the stress and emotion of having lost her child.

NEVILLE: Oh, yes. It is sad. It is sad. I feel bad for her and everybody involved. Susan Candiotti, thank you so much for your report. And, Jack Levine, thank you for being here as well.

We will be right back with more TALKBACK LIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE.

OK, he was once the leader of the free world, mediating disputes between countries, not to mention members of Congress, and answering endless questions from reporters from all over the world. Well, now we hear former President Bill Clinton wants to come on this side of the microphone. That's right. The scuttlebutt is, he wants to add talk show host to his resume. A ratings bonanza or bust?

Always ready with an opinion, from Washington: CNN contributor Bill Press -- hey, Bill.

BILL PRESS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Arthel. Nice to see you again.

NEVILLE: And, in New York, Robert George, associate editorial page editor with "The New York Post."

ROBERT GEORGE, "NEW YORK POST": Hi, Arthel. Good to be here.

NEVILLE: Hey there.

Do you buy this? Do you really think Clinton wants a talk show?

GEORGE: I mean, I thought he already had a talk show that ran for eight years. Maybe I missed something.

PRESS: Hey, actually, Arthel, my comment would be, I think you better watch out, because the latest thing to come down the wire is that he is talking to CNN about TALKBACK LIVE.

NEVILLE: Hey, you know what? I say bring him on. Come on, Bill, and host with me.

GEORGE: Except, the only problem is, nobody else would be able to get in a word edgewise.

PRESS: Oh, come on, Robert.

NEVILLE: Oh.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Go ahead, Bill.

PRESS: I was going to say, I think Clinton would be fabulous as a talk show host. I remember, during the '96 campaign, a lot of us who were covering that campaign said, watching him in these town meetings, even during his presidency for these town meetings, a lot of us said, "Boy, if he ever loses, we know what his next job is going to be, is television talk show host."

And, apparently, he was talking to NBC about $50 million.

NEVILLE: Fifty million bucks a year. You think he's worth it?

PRESS: Absolutely. They would get every dollar's worth out of it.

Listen, Oprah gets 125.

NEVILLE: Oh, she is worth it.

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE: You know, actually, Arthel, strangely enough, I kind of agree with Bill on that.

Well, frankly, I don't think it is appropriate, really, for the former president of the United States to actually have a talk show. However, that said, I think he will have a lot of people tuning in. There will be those that are big fans of his and those people who despise him. And all the ratings -- I think the ratings will go up because of that.

NEVILLE: So, why do you think it is not a good idea?

GEORGE: Well, if you think that the presidency -- I mean, it is the head of state of the country and so forth. Somebody who has been in that position and then having a talk show -- and we have seen some of the topics that pop up on talk shows -- it just seems somewhat inappropriate.

NEVILLE: I know, because, I mean...

GEORGE: Even for Bill Clinton.

NEVILLE: See, I was waiting for you to put the little punchline on it, a little button on that.

GEORGE: Well, there you go.

PRESS: Can you imagine Bill Clinton -- four years from now, Bill Clinton might be having a talk show talking about what is George Bush going to do when he leaves the presidency, silly topics like that.

But I agree with Robert. I think in the end -- look, Bill Clinton is in transition, OK? I can tell you something about being in transition.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: You look at all of your options before you decide. And that is what Bill Clinton is doing. This is just one other option. I think, in the end, he will turn it down, because I think he realizes that a former president ought to be doing something a little more dignified, a little more important, like being a roving ambassador for peace or working on getting rid of land mines or working on the environment or something.

GEORGE: It is one thing to go from being mayor of Cincinnati to becoming Jerry Springer. But going from leader of the free world to talk shows...

NEVILLE: Becoming Jerry Springer.

GEORGE: Becoming Jerry Springer.

(LAUGHTER)

GEORGE: And we already have been down this path before. I mean, we have had the dress and we have had infidelity and we have had all this other kind of stuff. What else can Bill Clinton add on to his own show?

PRESS: Well, let me tell you another problem, Arthel, is that he said, because Hillary is in the Senate, that he would not be able to talk or want to talk about...

NEVILLE: Politics.

PRESS: ... politics. But, if this guy can't talk politics, if he can't talk policy, then he is going to be talking about, what, fashion entertainment, all that other silly stuff. I don't think so.

NEVILLE: He can talk about entertainment. He has a lot of friends in the entertainment business.

PRESS: Well, yes he does, but he's got a lot more to offer than that, I think.

NEVILLE: Hang on guys, because J.C. here from Georgia has something to say about this.

J.C.: I disagree. I think it is the next logical step in his career. I say go for it. I mean, I have watched Jerry Springer. I might as well go ahead and watch old Bill.

(LAUGHTER)

J.C.: Comparing himself to Oprah Winfrey, though, I think that is an insult to her. I think Jerry Springer is a more appropriate comparison.

NEVILLE: Uh-oh, so, OK, would Clinton be the next Oprah or the next Jerry Springer, George -- Mr. Robert George?

PRESS: Well, he -- go ahead, Robert.

GEORGE: I would think he would end being a little bit closer to Jerry Springer than to Oprah. Now, there was also some talk, too, about him taking over the CBS "Early Show" from Bryant Gumbel, which would be kind of interesting, because Bryant Gumbel is actually more liberal than Bill Clinton, but Tony Morrison (ph) thinks Bill Clinton is more black than Bryant Gumbel. So...

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: So he qualifies for both.

GEORGE: So he qualifies. It works both ways.

NEVILLE: Robert, I am not going to touch that one.

(LAUGHTER)

GEORGE: Oh, come on.

NEVILLE: Oh, come on. Come on, what? What do you want to know, what, what?

PRESS: All right, you guys.

GEORGE: Oh, no, I just said -- go right ahead.

NEVILLE: No, no. I am going to stay away from that one. I am just playing with you,

Gus, go ahead, from Canada.

GUS: I think the first day, they should have a whole section on people who define sex differently. That would be appropriate for Bill Clinton, I would think.

NEVILLE: Oh, so, we are getting topic ideas now. Thank you. Oh, yes, absolutely. Why not?

PRESS: But, you see, This is one with of the reasons that Bill Clinton, I think, in the end, will decide not to have a talk show, because there are too many areas that are going to bring up too many memories of too many problems he would rather not talk about. But I want come back to, I don't think he will be like Jerry Springer. I think he would be kind of a cross between Oprah and Charlie Rose: a thoughtful, provocative talk show. People would watch, absolutely.

NEVILLE: I agree. I don't think he would be like Jerry Springer.

PRESS: No. No.

GEORGE: It is possible he could do like a group of specials, like once a month or once every couple of months, maybe focused on a book, maybe focused on a head of state or something like that. That might be something that people would find a little bit more dignified.

NEVILLE: Good suggestion, Robert. Maybe he might listen. Who knows?

All right, Bill Press.

GEORGE: He hasn't listened to anything else I've said in the past. NEVILLE: I wonder why. I wonder why,

PRESS: Quick final comment.

NEVILLE: Bill Press, you know what? I have to go.

PRESS: OK. Go.

NEVILLE: Real quick. Two seconds, 10 seconds.

PRESS: I was going to say, think Jimmy Carter. That is my advice to Bill Clinton. Think Jimmy Carter. Be that kind of an ex- president.

NEVILLE: All right, Bill Press, Robert George, thank you. I had a lot of fun with you guys. Thanks.

PRESS: Thanks, guys.

GEORGE: Thanks, Arthel. Take care, Bill.

PRESS: See you, Robert.

NEVILLE: OK. All right.

Maury Povich, Maury Povich, aha, former news man turned talk show host. And look there, looking all dapper. He is the husband to one of our new colleagues here at CNN. We're talking about Ms. Connie Chung.

Hey, Maury.

MAURY POVICH, TV TALK SHOW HOST: Nice to be with you, Arthel.

NEVILLE: Nice to see you.

OK, so, would anybody watch the Bill Clinton show?

POVICH: Well, I just have one piece of advice to the president. Don't do it.

NEVILLE: Don't do it.

POVICH: You will get hammered. You will fail miserably. You think the political press was tough to deal with. You just get until you get into the crosshairs of Howard Rosenberg of "The L.A. Times" and Tom Shales of "The Washington Post."

NEVILLE: TV critics. That's right.

POVICH: I mean, the pressure of the presidency is nothing compared to the pressure of dealing with about 15 talk show hosts every day and trying to beat them out.

NEVILLE: Well, see, now, you speak from experience. What is the craziest or worst thing they have said about you, Maury? POVICH: Oh, no, you don't want to go there.

NEVILLE: I don't want to go there, right.

POVICH: Every S-word in the world. You just don't want to do that.

NEVILLE: We'd be bleeping out, OK.

POVICH: Yes, I have had to call my parents not to read the paper that morning. Don't do that. And, of course, they sided with the critic.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: Oh, see there.

Now, let's say, for instance, if Bill did do a talk show.

POVICH: Right. I mean, think about it. Think about it, Arthel. Is he going to take a page from my show? Is he going to do shows on: Who is the daddy? I don't think so.

NEVILLE: So, what would do you do to make the show successful? Is there anything he could do? Just don't do it, you're saying.

POVICH: No, because he has to understand, if you do a daytime talk show, who is watching daytime talk? Women 18 to 54. That's the demographic that everybody goes after.

NEVILLE: Well, he seems to be attractive to women.

POVICH: Well, I wonder.

Has he recaptured that pre-Lewinsky image from 18-15-year-old women? I don't know. I just do not know. Can he talk about intimate, personal subject matter? I don't think, because then there is a question of duplicity and everything else involved.

So, he would be better off at PBS. And not only that, if he is doing it just for the money, don't do it, because you won't last.

NEVILLE: Well, we're going to bring in Paige (ph) now. She is calling in on the phone.

And, Paige, what do you have to say to me or Maury?

CALLER: I would just like to say, what about morals? He clearly said, "I did not have sexual relations with Monica." And, in any other given situation, we would clearly outcast people of this nature. And he was supposed to represent us as the president. And I certainly wouldn't to see him on a talk show.

NEVILLE: Oh, well, there you go. Maury, that is what you were saying, huh? POVICH: Yes. You have to have a certain amount of credibility. And that is not to say the president does not. And that is not to say he can't serve a role. And what Bill Press and your friend from "The New York Post" had to say is right. He should elevate himself the way Jimmy Carter has and see how much great work he has done since he was the president.

NEVILLE: What is your name?

NIKE: Nike (ph).

NEVILLE: Nike from Nigeria, what do you have to say?

NIKE: Well, I want to say, as a former president of the free world, it is very demeaning for him to want to do something like that. That is not an appropriate thing for a president, a former president to want to do a talk show host, or be a talk show host.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Nike.

Maury, so, you are onto something, because everybody is singing your sentiments.

POVICH: You know, I don't know who floated this story, whether it was NBC or the people who were at that meeting with NBC who just wanted to mention to everybody that they sat with the president of the United States. But you are not going to pay $50 million for Bill Clinton to do a talk show. You are just not going to do it.

NEVILLE: Let's bring in John now. John is calling in from Nevada.

Go ahead, John.

CALLER: Would I watch Bill Clinton? You better believe I would watch Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton has the people's interests in mind. He is absolutely honest. And, as far as Monica is concerned, Maury, you have your closet, too, and your skeletons. And you are not going to tell us about them, are you?

NEVILLE: Hey, John, check this out, guests. What? You know what? If we all did a little bit of spring cleaning, we would find stuff in the closet we wouldn't you to see. So, you too, John. But thanks for that call.

All right, Maury, you know what? Let's get an idea here, though, because people at home see you on TV. You're working hard and stuff. We're talking about this talk show idea. Give us an idea of, like, your day. You don't just show up and just produce, do your little show for an hour, right?

POVICH: It is very hard work. When I first went into it 11 years ago, I got the advice from Geraldo Rivera, a friend of mine who was on the air at the time. And Geraldo said, it may look easy, but it is hard work. I mean, we come to work 7:00 in the morning and we leave around 6:00 or 7:00 at night. And it is a long haul. We do two shows a day. Now, the good news is, we have about 12 or 13 weeks off spread out through the year. But those 39 or 40 weeks we work, we work really hard.

NEVILLE: You're working hard.

Tony is here from Michigan.

What do you say, Tony?

TONY: Well, we have talked about how having a former president do a talk show may not be a dignified job for the president. But I think, as a viewer -- and I think this is why TV stations might be interested -- I think it lends dignity for the audience to say -- well, for people who don't typically watch talk shows: "Well, the president is on, or the former president, so it is OK for me to watch a talk show now."

NEVILLE: Oh, I see. Oh, I see. Hmm.

POVICH: That's OK.

NEVILLE: Yes.

Hey, Maury, before we go here, so -- you know what?

Tony, I am mulling over what he just said. And I am not sure. You know what? I am going to let you off the hook. Have a seat, sir. Thank you very much.

OK, you think it is going to happen, yes or no, Maury?

POVICH: It is not going to happen.

NEVILLE: It's not.

POVICH: I mean, the NBC people were flattering themselves. And I just think they wanted to get another headline. And I don't think the former president is serious about it.

NEVILLE: Well, it has been fun talking about it anyway, right?

POVICH: Here is a guy who is getting $100,000 to $300,000 a year for an hour speech. He doesn't need a talk show.

NEVILLE: Hey, Maury, thank you so much for coming by TALKBACK LIVE.

POVICH: Appreciate it, Arthel. Nice to be with you.

NEVILLE: OK. All right.

POVICH: Good luck to you all, my new favorite network, CNN.

NEVILLE: Of course. Of course.

We'll be right back.

NEVILLE: A major talent, a life cut short: Thousands turn out to say goodbye to Lisa "Left Eye" Lopes -- a tribute from fans and friends up next here on TALKBACK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Today, thousands of fans and friends said farewell to Lisa "Left Eye" Lopes. Lisa was killed in a car accident last Thursday in Honduras.

Since her untimely death, many people who knew Lisa have had nothing but wonderful things to say about her. Today, we would like to end the show with a small tribute to Left Eye, who leaves a legacy as a great musician and humanitarian.

My prayers are with Lisa and her family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was so special. She was so outspoken. If you ever watch any TLC interview, you see Lisa outspoken, always the one making everybody laugh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a multi-talented young lady. She was fun caring, loving, very smart, intelligent. And, I mean, she can never be replaced. She's got her angel wings. Now she can come back and lift someone else up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE: Godspeed, Lisa.

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