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CNN Live Today

Clone Conundrum Continues

Aired May 06, 2002 - 12:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: There are three new studies out on the subject of cloning. That's a totally different topic there. This information comes as Congress weighs potential benefits of biomedical research against daunting ethical questions.

Our Elizabeth Cohen joins us with more.

And I guess it is a different topic, but, really, it is one that would also concern the church, because religious leaders are very concerned about where this science is headed.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. The church has definitely weighed in on this issue.

And the news today is that, as you said, "The New England Journal of Medicine" has weighed in on this issue. And that's because the Senate is due to consider a bill or several bills on human cloning by the end of month. "The New England Journal of Medicine" has a couple articles on cloning.

They were supposed to come out in a few weeks, but they said: "You know what? We're going to release them early, because we want to be a part of this national debate." This gets extremely confusing scientifically and ethically, so I am going to try to boil this down. What this comes down is the fact that there is not one kind of cloning; there's two kinds. There's the kind that gets you a baby. If you were going to clone Daryn, you would get a little baby Daryn.

KAGAN: A big, big baby.

COHEN: A big, big baby, because she was a big baby. You would get a baby Daryn who would grow up to look like her in a couple decades, in 25 years or so.

(LAUGHTER)

COHEN: And the other kind of cloning is where you actually get a medical therapy. You don't get a baby. You get a medical therapy.

We actually have a graphic that explains this, because, again, this gets very confusing. This is an embryo. Pretend that that is an embryo, which, again, if we were cloning Daryn, that embryo would be a genetic clone of Daryn. Put it in a woman's uterus -- it doesn't even have to be hers -- you get a baby at the end of it. That would be a baby Daryn.

However, you could also make a medical therapy. Let's present it's in the syringe. Let's pretend those are cardiac muscles that are a clone of Daryn. If she, God forbid, had some kind of a heart problem, you could use those to help mend the injured muscle in her heart. And, theoretically, you wouldn't have the kind of rejection issues that you have with other medical therapies, because it's a perfect clone of her. You don't have anyone else's genes in there messing it up.

Now, there are two bills that are in front of the Senate. And let's go over what each of them says. There's the Brownback-Landrieu bill, which bans all human cloning, both of the kinds that you saw right there. It is essentially the same bill that was passed by the House last summer by a very wide margin. And it's supported by President Bush.

There's also the Feinstein-Kennedy bill, which is now the Hatch- Feinstein-Specter-Kennedy bill, which outlaws just the reproductive kind, just the kind that would get you a baby Daryn. But it permits research cloning so that it would get you those cardiac cells or basically any other kind of body part that would be a perfect match. And so that is what is up in front of the Senate.

KAGAN: A couple questions here. First of all, the science of this and the reality: Is this kind of the cart before the horse in that, just because the Senate says or the government says you can go ahead with this research, the science doesn't exactly exist right now?

COHEN: It doesn't, but we do have Dolly. And we have cloned so many other animals. So, what scientists have been saying since '97, when Dolly was made, let's get on the stick here. Science is already cloning mammals. Humans, who are just mammals, could be next. And, yes, it will take a while. Yes, it is probably not going to happen tomorrow, but it could happen at some point.

Now, it's interesting. I don't think you can find a single member of Congress who thinks that cloning human beings is a good idea. So they are pretty much in agreement on that. It's really this research one. And if you do this research, this therapeutic cloning research that would get you the heart cells or whatever, it is up to 10 years in jail and a $1 million fine, whether or not you are using public funding. Even if you're using your own money, it's still illegal.

KAGAN: That would definitely be a discouragement to do that.

COHEN: Yes, definitely. Definitely.

KAGAN: But does it necessarily stop the science? Does it just maybe stop the science here in the U.S. and it goes elsewhere around the world?

COHEN: Exactly. And that's what some scientists say, is that they say, hey, gee, if you do this here, other countries are going to beat us to it. They are going to come up with what scientists say could be some of the most incredible science ever, and the United States will lose out.

As a matter of fact, there is an article in "The New England Journal" that says we really need to have international standards so that we're all on the same page. Let's say they banned human cloning here, so you couldn't make a baby. Well, let's say they then go make a baby in England. So, there's a call for everybody in the world to be doing the same thing.

KAGAN: All right. One thing I am sure Congress can agree on, cloning me, not a good idea.

COHEN: Not a good idea, OK. That's in the bill. Daryn Kagan is in the bill.

(LAUGHTER)

KAGAN: Whoever you clone, don't clone me. One of me is more than anybody could handle.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for the update on that political and very hot science topic.

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