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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Bombing Kills 15 And Injures Dozens in Tel Aviv Suburb; Bush and Sharon Hold Press Conference
Aired May 07, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, Israel radio reporting -- Israel television reporting at least 15 dead in this explosion, tens of others, at least 40 others injured. It's a three-story building, we're told, described as a billiard club where young people were gathering by and large playing snooker, playing pool, shooting pool, a popular location in Rishon Letzion, this town just south of Tel Aviv.
Ambulances are on the way. We do have our Jerrold Kessel, our correspondent with a crew on the way to Rishon Letzion as well. We're getting more information from police.
Israel radio and Israel television have broken into their regular programming. They had extensive live coverage of President Bush's live meeting at the White House with the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, a meeting that is continuing even at this moment, even while this incident is being reported in Israel. But they have virtually gone wall-to-wall covering this story in Rishon Letzion, an explosion, apparently a suicide bombing involving a terrorist at the billiard club just south of Tel Aviv.
This would be, if in fact it is eventually, officially, confirmed by Israel police and they haven't officially confirmed this yet, if in fact it is a suicide bombing, it would be the first such incident since April 12th when there was a suicide bombing at the open air marketplace in Jerusalem. A suicide bombing that resulted in the death of six people, the injured - and the injuries to some 80 others, a female suicide bomber in Jerusalem at that marketplace. That's been a relatively quiet situation since April 12th as the Israelis continued to complete their operation on the West Bank withdrawing from Ramallah, withdrawing from Jenin, withdrawing from Nablus, virtually all of the areas that they had moved in during their incursion. Even tonight, they were apparently getting very close to a deal that would result in the Israeli military withdraw from Bethlehem, around the Church of the Nativity and Manger Square. That deal still on hold. Not officially completed. They're working out some final aspects of that.
But if in fact this is a terrorist incident and all signs, all signs suggesting right now this is indeed a terrorist incident, an incident that Israel radio and Israel television now reporting involves a suicide bomber at this billiard club in Rishon Letzion. It would be presumably designed to coincide with Prime Minister Sharon's meeting with President Bush at the White House, which continues at this hour.
Once again, at least 15 people dead, 40 others injured, as we speak right now. Ambulances on their way to Rishon Letzion. Four Israelis, this an all too familiar scene what's been going on these past few months, suicide bombing incidents in Netanya, in Haifa, in Tel Aviv, in Jerusalem, throughout the area.
We are now officially getting police confirmation, official confirmation to CNN, 10 to 15 people dead at this billiard club in this three- story building in Rishon Letzion. We also now at CNN getting official confirmation a suicide bombing. Police sources tell CNN this was in fact a suicide bombing at this billiard club in Rishon Letzion.
Police also confirming to CNN what they earlier told Israel radio and Israel television, both channels on Israel television, at least 10 to 15 dead at this billiard club, a popular location in Rishon Letzion, a working class area in this town just south of Tel Aviv along the Mediterranean coast. Ambulances on the scene, as you can see from these early pictures that we're getting in from Israel television. A lot of devastation, a lot of destruction, a lot of damage and, obviously, a sense of a country jittery, on nerves as a result of what's going on.
While we look at these pictures, I also want to bring in our senior White House correspondent, John King. He's at the White House where President Bush continues to meet with the Prime Minister Sharon at this moment -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that meeting nearing its close, just a few moments ago, the White House press pool, a small group of reporters brought into the oval office. So at this moment President Bush and Prime Minister Sharon summarizing their meeting and likely, of course, to face questions about this. Unclear to us just how much either the president or the prime minister, because they were in their meeting when this bombing took place, how much they know about it but we will hear from the leaders in just a few minutes.
Obviously the timing could not be worse from a white house perspective. Mr. Bush hoping at this meeting to nudge the prime minister along, if you will, along a process the administration is trying to build and lay out eventually leading to a political dialogue, peace negotiations with the Palestinians. If, as you reporting, this turns out to be another suicide bombing, it is likely to strengthen the prime minister's position, if you will, or certainly from his perception strengthen his position that he should have no pressure from the United States or anyone else to deal with Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian authority.
What the prime minister came here to make the case is that he believes the next step should just be short-term interim security improvements, see if those are implemented and tested and then and only then discuss a timetable for any political dialogue leading to peace negotiations.
Again, the president had hoped to back him off that position a little bit. Obviously, another tragic day in the Middle East likely to once again add uncertainty and more violence to the dynamic just as the president was hoping for a period of calm to move diplomacy forward - Wolf.
BLITZER: John, bear with me for one moment while I recap what we know now from Israeli police sources that have officially told this to CNN.
They are confirming that this is apparently a suicide bombing. Israel television and Israel radio saying, flatly, it is a suicide bombing. In fact, I'm looking on the screen of Channel 2 here in Israel where they say suicide bombing in a billiard club in Rishon Letzion. They're flatly saying this is a suicide bombing. Police are also telling CNN at least 10 to 15 people confirmed dead, scores of other, perhaps 40 at least, perhaps many more injured in this collapse of this three- story building in Rishon Letzion.
If in fact all of this is true, apparently it was designed to coincide with Prime Minister Sharon's meeting, John, with President Bush at the White House. John, if in fact this is a suicide bombing coinciding with Prime Minister Sharon's meeting with the president, you know White House officials, you know Bush Administration officials, how are they likely to respond to this kind of incident?
KING: Well that is where we will see somewhat of a divergence between the White House reaction and the Israeli reaction. The White House reaction, in the past, has been that such attacks like this are proof that there are always going to be people on the extremes who do not want peace, that the timing would be delivered in an effort to derail any process. The administrations line would be that it is all the more reason to try to build confidence in a political dialog to aim in the short-term for things like a cease-fire and security improvements, but ultimately, to what the United States believes has to be the resolution, an independent Palestinian state and security agreements between a Palestinian state and Israel.
The problem is the prime minister's reaction is likely to be that his number one priority has been and now must be security. That he should not be asked by the United States or anyone else to enter into peace negotiations when he has a terrorism crisis in his own country.
Another question at this point is there have been instances in the past when Israeli leaders have been in this country, when there has been violence and they have cut short their trip and head home. The prime minister is supposed to go up to Congress tonight where he will be welcomed by an overwhelmingly positive reaction by U.S. Congressional leaders. He also was suppose to move on to New York for another day of events in New York tomorrow. One question we will need to put to the Israeli delegation is whether this, in anyway, will change the prime minister's schedule here in the United States - Wolf.
BLITZER: Well past - John, if past experience is a prelude to what we can expect, it presumably will cut short the prime minister's visit to the United States. We don't know that for sure.
Let me recap what we do know at this point. Ambulance services are telling CNN that at least 45 people injured. Of those, seven are described as seriously injured. Police sources telling CNN at least 10 to 15 people at this billiard club in this three-story building in Rishon Letzion dead. Police sources also saying apparently the work of a suicide bomber.
Our Jerrold Kessel is on the scene. He's driving towards Rishon Letzion. Jerrold is on the phone. Jerrold, what can you tell us about this incident as far as you know from where you are right now?
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, at the moment, all we've been getting is sources both from the Israeli - or the Israeli radio and television stations and other people who are near the scene. And from what we understand from the different sources, there are 15 people dead at least and more than 30 injured of whom at least a dozen are in serious condition.
The blast occurred just about an hour ago. It's now 10 after midnight local time. But about 10 after 11 on the third story of this - it's an industrial, commercial zone of this big satellite town south of Tel Aviv, Rishon Letzion. It's a town which has a population of well over 100,000 and it was on the third floor of what is being described as a billiard club, cafeteria, which must be pretty crowded at the time given the scope of the casualties.
And according to the local police, we've understood that they are saying it was definitely the work of a suicide bomber who managed to get into that building, go up on to the third floor. There were initial reports that the whole building had collapsed but we understand now as we head down towards Rishon Letzion, its about an hour's drive away from our CNN headquarters in Jerusalem and we're on our way down there now, that the whole building did not collapse but the top floor where this club was located was in complete shambles, as we can see from the pictures and the whole - the top story including the ceiling, the acoustic ceiling and the ceiling of that third floor collapsed on the people who were all inside.
According to the ambulances rescue services we've been in touch with, they say they have evacuated from the site all the wounded but they're now trying to count up the exact number of people who have been killed in what the Israeli police - local police in Rishon Letzion now definitely saying it was a suicide bomber - Wolf.
BLITZER: And Jerrold, for our viewers who are not familiar with Rishon Letzion, this is a largely, almost exclusively Jewish city south of Tel Aviv. Very few Arabs live in Rishon Letzion, is that right?
KESSEL: Yes, that's absolutely true. It probably wouldn't - would be only a few of Israel's Arab population would live there. It's an old town but sprung up in the last 30 (ph) years to become probably the biggest satellite town of Tel Aviv. It's just about 15 miles to 20 miles south of Tel Aviv just in from the Mediterranean coast. A very popular and middle class neighborhood. Very popular with young couples, young families. But a very mixed population of well established Israelis and newcomers to the country. Many of the Washington immigrants have settled there in the last 20 years and it has grown a pace very dramatically in the last 15 to 20 years and very much a popular site.
Now, it's interesting that they haven't, in the massive wave of suicide bombings and other attacks in the last several months, particularly Rishon Letzion, had escaped from that scourge of attacks but now it is struck there as well - Wolf.
BLITZER: I want to just update our viewers, Jerrold. Standby as you continue your way to Rishon Letzion, which means first to Zion, one of the early Jewish settlements in the Zionist's movement that was established in Palestine more than a hundred years ago. We now have a statement from David Baker (ph). He's an official in the prime ministers' office. He called it "another murderous attack against Israelis". He's also saying "it is clear that the Palestinian authority has not given up its terror actions and has not given up its murderous path". That's a statement from the prime minister's office, David Baker.
As we standby, also we're waiting comments from President Bush and Prime Minister Sharon in the White House where they have been meeting. We're only a little bit away from those comments. Let me update our viewers what we know right now.
A popular billiard club in a three-story building in Rishon Letzion, this suburban town south of Tel Aviv, many commuters who work in Tel Aviv live in Rishon Letzion, this billiard club happened an explosion. We're now being officially told a suicide bombing. The prime minister's office in Israel clearly linking this directly to the Palestinian authority, although we don't know what, if any evidence, there is to that but we do know that at least 10 to 15 people are confirmed dead, at least 45 others have been injured. We're told anywhere from seven to a dozen seriously injured.
All of this taking place as President Bush had been meeting with Prime Minister Sharon in the White House. The president and the prime minister have been meeting for well over an hour. And we're expecting now, within a minute or so, to hear directly from the president and the prime minister.
Presumably, this terrorist incident, as it's being described by Israeli officials in Rishon Letzion, will be very much on the minds of Mr. Bush and Mr. Sharon when they meet with reporters, when they speak and we're only a little bit away from that.
Once again, Rishon Letzion the area of what Israeli officials are saying is a suicide bombing. The first here in Israel since September 12th, that occurred the day after Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived at Israel for his efforts to try to end the fighting and to get some sort of peace process underway. That suicide bombing resulted what, three, almost four weeks ago. It's been a relatively quiet period since then.
Here's the president and the prime minister.
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want to welcome Prime Minister Ariel Sharon back to the oval office. We've just had a really good conversation about how to get on the path to peace. I want peace. Our government wants peace. The prime minister is interested in peace, of course.
(AUDIO GAP)
One of the things that is important, the prime minister discussed this as well, is for us to immediately begin to help rebuild a security force in Palestine that will fight terror, that will bring some stability to the region. I think it is very important that there be a unified security force, but at the same time, we need to work for other institutions, a constitution for example, a framework for development of a state that can help bring security and hope to the Palestinian people and the Israelis. And one of the things we've got to make sure that we do is anything; any vision understands that there are people in Israel who long for security and peace. People in Palestinian world who long for security, peace and economic hope.
To this end, I've told the prime minister that George Tenet will be going back to the region to help - to help construct the - design the construction of a security force, a unified security force that will be transparent and held accountable. And so I really am pleased with our conversation. As I've said, there are responsibilities to be had by all the parties. We've discussed those responsibilities. I told the prime minister there's nothing more that I want than to be peace in the region and that I look forward to working with him and his government to achieve that peace. Prime minister, welcome.
PRIME MISTER ARIEL SHARON, ISRAEL: Thank you so much. I'm very glad to have this opportunity to come again here to meet with you Mr. President. I would like to thank you for all your efforts and ready to act against terror worldwide. We appreciated that and we appreciate your leadership and courageous decisions. And of course, I'd like to thank you for your friendship.
Israel is a peace seeking country and we are after many, many years been involved in many wars, heavy battles and now after the last operation that we carried out against the infrastructure of a terror in Somalia and Judea or as you call it, the West Bank, I believe that there is a chance now to start and move forward.
We discussed these issues, how to move forward. We emphasized about the need for reform in the Palestinian authority and I think that's very important. And we discussed the original peace conference that I advocated and I believe it's very important in order to take place. Altogether all of us have the defined (ph) the importance of peace - the need for peace and I think that we are committed that to make every effort and every step to reach peace. And I would like to thank you again for everything that you are doing ...
BUSH: Thank you prime minister.
SHARON: ... and for your friendship.
BUSH: Thank you, sir.
Foureiner (ph), A.P.
UNIDENTIFIED: If you could, first of all, define what you mean by unified - if you could, first of all, identify what you mean by unified structure and secondly, more broadly to both of you, your administration is on record as supporting accelerated peace talks and dealing with Yasser Arafat and making Saudi Arabia a key partner. Prime Minister Sharon favors incremental steps and taking Arafat out of the process and he's provided you evidence suggesting that the Saudi's encourage Palestinian attacks. Have reached any of the those gaps, the two of you?
BUSH: Well unified means that as opposed to six, seven or eight different security forces, under six, seven or eight different commands, there's one command structure. That's what that means.
UNIDENTIFIED: Palestinian?
BUSH: Yeah, Palestinian, exactly.
In terms of the other issues, we have discussed a wide range of issues. One of the things that should be becoming apparent to people is that we're in consultation with not only the Israelis but other governments. I talked to the Crown Prince Abdullah today as well as President Barak, about how best to proceed toward a common vision.
You just heard the prime minister talk about the desire for peace. We had the Saudi Crown Prince stand up and talk about peace and the need for a peaceful solution. And it's very important for us to seize this moment, as the prime minister mentioned, and to lead and get on that path and that's exactly what we've talked about.
And I want to reiterate what I have said and will continue to say there are responsibilities. If people truly want for there to be peace, people have to assume their responsibilities for peace. And the Saudis must do that and they're willing to do that. The crown prince again, and I talked and I made it clear to him that we've got to fight terror in the region for there to be peace and that he and the other leaders must work and must convince the Palestinian authority that they have got to do everything in their power to lead toward a solution.
At the same time, I emphasized what Ariel has just mentioned, that we must provide a framework for growth of a potential Palestinian state. There's got to be the framework for education and health and economic development, as well as security. And all parties have got responsibilities in the region to do their part.
UNIDENTIFIED: Mr. President.
BUSH: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED: Sorry. Hello.
BUSH: You're blocking her.
UNIDENTIFIED: You've said many times that one should not compromise with terrorism. You've said many times that you are disappointed in Yasser Arafat in the issue of terrorism. Do you think that Israel should compromise and negotiate with Chairman Arafat? BUSH: I'm never going to tell my friend, the prime minister, what to do on how to handle his business. That's his choice to make. He's a democratically elected official. And I'll reiterate; I have been disappointed in Chairman Arafat. I think he's let the Palestinian people down. I think he's had an opportunity to lead to peace and he hasn't done so. And that's why it's important for all of us to work out a way to development the institutions necessary for there to be a Palestinian authority that's got the capacity to keep security but as well as a Palestinian authority that's got the ability to help promote hope for the future of our people.
If there's an education system in the work, health system is vibrant - and by the way, there's plenty of nations that are willing to participate so long as the framework for a stable part of the world is in place and those are the reforms that the prime minister has talked about and those are the reforms that we must press.
I will give you one example. The Palestinians need to develop a constitution, rule of law, transparency. They've got to have a treasury that is able to battle corruption so that not only does - do the Israeli people have confidence in the authority but so do the Palestinian people have confidence in the authority. And those are the reforms we've discussed.
Well, we've got a prime minister here. This guy can answer questions.
SHARON: I'm willing to wait.
UNIDENTIFIED: Mr. Prime Minister, the last time ...
BUSH: Thank you ...
UNIDENTIFIED: The last time you mentioned President Bush he was said to the idea of a Palestinian state at the end of a peace process. Do you still support the establishment of a state? And Mr. President, do you believe that a state should be a stated goal of a peace process?
BUSH: Yes, I haven't changed my position.
SHARON: Thank you. I think that it is still premature to discuss this issue seeing what that we have to concentrate now and making every effort that the real reform will take place and we discussed let's say how we need to reach this reform, what should be there and discuss some other developments like the regional peace conference and other issues.
UNIDENTIFIED: Do you believe a reform must take place before you would consider a Palestinian state?
SHARON: I think that's, as I said, is premature now. I think first of all a step should be taken in order to establish -- to head toward real reform in the Palestinian territory.
UNIDENTIFIED: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) radio number one. BUSH: How many radio number one's are there?
UNIDENTIFIED: I didn't say that.
UNIDENTIFIED: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED: Mr. President, I wonder if you could tell us, you'll probably be studying these ideas of reforms in the Palestinian society. How long do you think - how long have you estimated it will take the Palestinians to carry out these reforms and do you have any reason to believe or any information that Mr. Arafat will agree for such reforms and will Arafat agree actually to lose his power and give it to somebody else in the Palestinian leadership?
BUSH: Well I -- you know it's interesting. I think that the operative question is how soon will you start working on reforms. That's the -- if I could put a question in your own mouth. The answer is as soon as possible. That's what we discussed about. How quickly can we begin the reform process? That's also is what we'll discuss with the Arab leaders who've got an interest in the area about how to get reforms going. And I think it's going to be - you know and answers to whether or not people will accept the reforms. Look, our job is to convince the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Egyptians that these reforms are absolutely necessary. And when I say people have got responsibilities, I'm not just saying the Israelis and the Palestinians have responsibilities. I'm saying these leaders and these were -- this is a subject I discussed with Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. He's the man who laid out the vision for peace. He's also a man who understands that, by reforming the Palestinians, we have a chance to achieve peace. And so I would hope that all the responsible Palestinian leaders understand that reform is in their interests, it's in the people's interests.
Listen, I deeply hurt when there is a lack of hope for moms and dads of anybody, Palestinian moms and dads. It bothers me. It bothers me to think there are some whose children are so hopeless they're willing to commit suicide. And so one of the things we've got to work for and one of the things our nation will work for is reforms coupled with humanitarian help. Reforms with, you know, the chance for there to be economic development so people can realize a normal life. And you know, as to who's going to accept what, we'll find out. But one of the things that's going to be clear is that the world is rallying towards these reforms and that's what our job is to do is to lead them towards those reforms. It makes a lot of sense and this is a good first step toward the path to peace. Listen, thank you all for coming.
BLITZER: And so there was President Bush and the Prime Minister of Israel Ariel Sharon only a little while ago in the oval office speaking with reporters, making no mention of this latest incident involving what Israel radio, Israel television and now the Israeli police force confirming to CNN, a suicide bombing incident in Rishon Letzion, a town just south of Tel Aviv.
At least 10, perhaps 15, confirmed dead, 45 believed to be injured, at least a dozen of those seriously injured in the course of the president and the prime minister's remarks. They made no mention of this latest incident, this latest terrorist incident in Rishon Letzion. The president did announce though that George Tenet, CIA director would be returning here to try to establish what the president called a unified security force in the West Bank and Gaza. One, in his words, that would be transparent and held accountable.
I want to bring in Senator Joe Biden, the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He's in Washington. First of all Senator, this suicide bombing, as the police here in Israel are now calling it, how is this likely to play in terms of the U.S. efforts to try to get some sort of peace process back on the ground?
SEN JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Well, obviously it makes it harder Wolf. I have an echo in my ear here. The problem is that I think the president's got it right. We've got to keep moving forward. I mean, if we - if this particular bombing brings everything to a halt, then there's no possibility or hope. And we're moving toward this conference.
In the meantime the president's right in my view, we have to make some demands upon the Saudis and others to say, OK, you got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We're not going to wait until you have this conference. We have to radically change the Palestinian authority. You the Saudis, you the Egyptians, you the Arab world have to step in. You have to make it clear to your people that you're going to condemn this kind of activity and the bombing. And in the process of this, you have to offer the Palestinian people some hope. And the hope is that there is going to be, through this transparency that is created with a new Palestinian authority, the ability for them to have a prospect for some peace and some growth, some economic growth.
But we got - I mean - what we have to get by is this incremental piece that we respond to every single setback that occurs. There's got to be a vision set out there. And I think the president - I was impressed. I think he - he went - he took a major step toward laying out how this process is going to move from here.
BLITZER: Senator, one of the things that the president said that did ring out in my ear. He is in response to one question; I am not going to tell my friend, the prime minister, what to do. Although, in recent weeks, my sense is he's been trying to tell the prime minister what to do to end the Israel military incursion and to try to resume negotiations with Yasser Arafat - Yasser Arafat. Did you see some sort of inconsistency in what the president was saying?
BIDEN: No. I saw some maturation of the relationship. I've been - we've talked about this, you and I, a lot Wolf. I don't think it's ever merits criticizing or demanding of an Israeli leader anything in public. In private, it's a different thing. We'd no more than tell the British ambassador or the British prime minister what we expected of him than fly. What the hell - what the heck makes us think we should do that with the Israelis?
I think the president did it the exact right way. But I am confident, in that Oval Office, the president made it clear what he hoped the prime minister would do. And not merely look -- the one place where he probably disagrees with the prime minister, which is presumptuous for me to say, I'll be meeting with the prime minister at 8:00 p.m. tonight.
The one place he probably disagreed was on the president -- the prime minister talking about very limited increments. He said, well, we'll talk about a Palestinian state later. It is premature. It is not premature for the president of the United States to say, look, let me tell you Palestinians what our vision is for you down the road within the near term if in fact you take the actions that are needed: ending the suicide bombing, having a a constitution, having transparency, allowing for a framework for other people to get into the process. That's what's needed to be done. I'm convinced he made that point very clearly to the prime minister privately.
BLITZER: Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware, he's the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee joining us. Thanks for spending a few moments with us, Senator Biden. I appreciate it very much.
I want to go now back to our Reshon Letzion, that's where this explosion occurred, apparently a suicide bombing. Matthew Guttman is on the phone. He is a reporter from the "Jerusalem Post," he's on the scene. Matthew, tell us what you are hearing and what you are seeing.
MATTHEW GUTTMAN, "JERUSALEM POST": Well, Wolf, we pretty much know the same thing you do. There are 15 killed, dozens wounded. There are dozens of ambulances here. There are also hundreds of gawkers and people staring in absolute shock. Nobody knows exactly what happened. But it appears that a terrorist bomber went into the snooker club, which is on Sakrow (ph) Street in Reshon Letson, which is south of Tel Aviv and detonated a bomb there. Right now, there are hundreds and hundreds of police officers here trying to clear onlookers from the scene.
There is a lot of yelling and shouting, and nobody knows exactly what is happening here. Rescue workers are currently -- you can see them -- working in the third -- excuse me -- working the third story window which has been completely blown out of the building. They are sifting through rubble and searching for survivors if there are any more bodies left. They brought in a very large crane to remove the ceiling.
BLITZER: Matthew. Let me interrupt you, Matthew. This is described as a snooker club or a billiard club with some sort of cafeteria or restaurant inside. Do you have any other details? What was in this three-story building beside a billiard club?
GUTTMAN: Well, the billiard club was on the third floor, on the second floor there was some sort of toy store or other businesses. But right now, the bomb detonated at about 11:00 at night. So the other stores were not open. And as far as we know, no one else was in the building except for the people in this billiards club called "Snooker" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And presumably the people in this club were younger Israelis who were hanging out at a pool club or a billiard club after 11:00 local time, about an hour and a half or so ago. Any information on the dead or injured, as far as you can surmise right now?
GUTTMAN: Well, the latest, as I said, it is a little bit chaotic here, but the latest we heard is that 15 people have been killed. Dozens are injured. If you peak into, a very sad sight, if you peak into the ambulances, you will see most of the people are very young, mostly students.
We don't know the extent of the injuries, or how many are inured. But we know at least 15 people have been killed and dozens wounded. Probably no less than 40. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: As far as the chanting you are hearing, there must be angry people outside. What are they saying?
GUTTMAN: Actually the angry people are fighting with the cops over positions. They want to be able to see what is going on, there is intense curiosity here. People feel very close to this neighborhood. Most of the people here live in the neighborhood, they know this place. And they probably feel like they know a lot of people who might have been inside. So this is very difficult -- difficult for them to watch and not be able to get close to.
Obviously, there is anger that this bomb came so soon after Israel ended its Operation Defensive Shield, which supposedly was meant it uproot terrorist infrastructure. But apparently that job was not completed completely.
BLITZER: Matthew -- we are talking with Matthew Guttman of the "Jerusalem Post," he's a reporter in Reshon Letson. On the scene right now.
Matthew, we know that there have been suicide bombing, terrorist incidents in Tel Aviv, in Netanya, in Haifa, here in Jerusalem, it seems to me this may be the first in Reshon Letson. Do you remember any incidents of this nature in Reshon Letson, this suburban town just south of Tel Aviv?
GUTTMAN: No. Wolf, I think you are correct, this is certainly the first terrorist bombing, and certainly any terrorist action of any magnitude in this city, which is actually caused some people to wonder if this terrorist didn't come from Gaza, which was considered sealed by many people. And which is considered a paradigm of what possibly should happen in the West Bank, which is, you know, a fenced off area.
So people are actually incredibly shocked; this has been a town which has not suffered too greatly in this last intifada, and people are simply in shock here. And that's what brings up all of this anger among the people. Hold on a second.
BLITZER: Matthew Guttman, a reporter for the "Jerusalem Post." He is in Reshon Letson. Let me update at least 15 confirmed dead in the Reshon Leson, a suicide bombing apparently at this billiard club, which is on the third floor of this building, called the new industrialized area of Reshon Letson. Forty-five believed to be injured, at least a dozen of those seriously.
Mark Regev, the spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington is on the north lawn of the White House where President Bush has just wrapped up a meeting with the Israeli prime minister. Mark, I know that you heard what the president and prime minister had to say, they said nothing, at least in their public comments, about this incident in Reshon Letson. What have you heard?
MARK REGEV, ISRAELI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: I have heard, Wolf -- I have just been on the line to Israel speaking to the IDF. Unfortunately, I hear the number of dead has gone up to 16. We are talking about some 20 critically injured. And from past experience, we know that unfortunately there will be some fatalities there. We are talking all together about some 51 people injured.
I also have received an initial report that the Hammas, that same terrorist organization that does did the Passover massacre in Netanya, some month ago is the group that claimed responsibility for this attack. I would urge caution because if this is an initial report, but that is my information.
BLITZER: So let's just repeat or recap what you are telling us, Mark, that 16 confirmed dead, 51 injured. According to the latest information, you are getting, from Israeli officials here on the scene and that the Hammas organization is claiming responsibility. A spokesman for the prime minister's office earlier said that the Palestinian Authority was responsible. If in fact this was Hammas, that would not necessarily be the Palestinian Authority, is that right?
REGEV: On the contrary, Wolf. We have, as part of the Oslo agreements, given back territories, Palestinian territories, under the control of Mr. Arafat. And if those territories have become a haven for groups like Hammas, for groups like Hezbollah, for groups like Islamic Jihad, Mr. Arafat is responsible.
It is President Bush who says he who gives haven to a terrorist, he who funds a terrorist, he who gives a safe house to a terrorist is as bad as the terrorist himself. That Hammas did this operation, this terrible terrorist bombing, does not in anyway mean that Mr. Arafat is not responsible.
BLITZER: And on the basis, of what do you say that Hammas is claiming responsibility for this attack, this explosion, this bombing in Reshon Letson?
REGEV: This is an update that I have received now from the IDF. I would urge caution, sometimes the early reports are not accurate. But this is the information I have at this time.
BLITZER: But you are saying that even if this is Hammas, that you are holding the Palestinian Authority of Yasser Arafat responsible for this incident, because what you say -- they should be able to control the security situation in -- throughout the areas under the control of the P.A. or Palestinian Authority, is that what you are saying? REGEV: I think what I'm saying is very clear. The same logic that the whole international community is using. That states and organizations that give support to terrorism, that allow terrorists to uproot from territories are in fact, arm in arm together with the terrorists. And there is no doubt that Mr. Arafat has allowed groups like Hammas and Islamic Jihad, and groups within his own Fatah party, groups like the Al Aqsa Brigades and the Tanzim to conduct suicide bombings.
At the White House today, Wolf, we had discussions with the president on how to move forward. A lot of positive ideas were raised. We were talking about how we can best make this political process move forward, how to overcome the difficulties and create a better future for both the Israelis and Palestinians. And yet today, just as these meetings were going on, we are all given a dose of very harsh reality. That nothing can happen, we can't move forward as long as terrorism is the policy of choice of the Palestinian Authority. And we can't move forward as long as terrorism continues like this.
The whole peace process was based on the principal of land for peace. We give land and we get peace and recognition with our neighbors and live in harmony, hopefully, with our neighbors, Wolf.
But if we give land and that land becomes a haven for terrorism, so we are not going to give any more land back. I mean, that would be suicidal from our point of view. Land for peace, not land for suicide bombers.
BLITZER: And, Mark Regev, before I let you go, the Israel radio, Israel television reporting, speculating that because of this terrorist incident at Rishon Letzion, the prime minister, might, might be cutting short his visit to the United States to return to Israel earlier than scheduled. What are you hearing from officials in the prime minister's delegation?
REGEV: I think he is still meeting now in the White House. When we finish our meetings in the White House, we will be going back to where we are staying here in Washington. We will be having discussions and decisions will be taken.
BLITZER: Mark, also, the meeting had been delayed earlier, went on a little bit longer. The prime minister was informed of this incident in Rishon Letzion. At what point, before or after he went into the White House?
REGEV: As I understand it, we got the information as the meeting had already started.
BLITZER: All right. Mark Regev, the prime minister is walking out of the White House right now, the west wing of the White House. Let's watch and see the prime minister. He is obviously going into his limousine and he is going to be heading over to some meetings he has with members of the Senate and House of Representatives. Once he leaves the White House, we will find out if he indeed cuts short his visit to the United States. Joining us now here in Jerusalem is another guest representing the government here in Israel, the Israeli ambassador to Ireland, but you are on duty here, Mark Sofer, right?
MARK SOFER, ADVISER TO ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY: Yes, but in the foreign ministry.
BLITZER: You are a senior official in the Israeli foreign ministry. Tell us the latest information you have on this incident, on this explosion, this bombing, in Rishon Letzion.
SOFER: Well, the information is similar or identical to the ones that you have just given out, about 15 dead, over 40 wounded, many of them seriously. It is horrendous, absolutely, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: Was it one suicide bomber based on the information you have?
SOFER: Well, the information I have right now and, as I say, the information is unfolding as we speak, as one suicide bomber. But I don't know if that's the final tally. And we're all, of course, in a state of shock, a state of horror. Again, the hand of Palestinian terrorism has smitten us once again in the heart of Israel.
BLITZER: Do you have any information if this suicide bomber was male or female?
SOFER: I have no information of that nature.
BLITZER: The incident would suggest that if Hamas, as Mark Regev, the spokesman for the Israel embassy in Washington -- he's at the White House with Prime Minister Sharon -- if, in fact, Hamas is claiming responsibility for this suicide bombing in Rishon Letzion, what does that say to you about Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority? How much control do they have over Hamas?
SOFER: Well, this distinction over the past period of time has become increasingly blurred between the two. We have seen incidents of collusion between the Tanzim, the Fatah military wing, and the Hamas in a series of incidents. We know that they have been involved heavily in terrorism. And so, it is not so easy nowadays just to make a distinction, one is one and one is the other as maybe we used to in the past.
I think what is necessary now is for the Palestinian leadership to realize once and for all that this disgusting, despicable act and others like it must cease and they must take all action to do so. We cannot go on like this. And they must realize that it is the end.
BLITZER: Isn't it theoretically, though, possible, Ambassador Sofer, that elements within the Palestinian community, Hamas, if in fact they are claiming responsibility for this incident, would be trying to undermine Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority, to embarrass the P.A., the Palestinian Authority, by trying to disrupt any effort to resume peace and negotiations? SOFER: In past, the trustees of this nature, we have seen all different types of groupings clamoring to be the first to claim responsibility and the glee to be the ones that have killed more Israelis than another organization or rival terrorist organization. And I think that we haven't seen the end of the information because it is coming out right now.
As I said, the distinction is blurred. It is difficult to make any more to say one is one and one is the other. And they are colluding and they have done so on many occasions in the past. And, right now, our thoughts and our minds really must be with the families of those who have been massacred and with the wounded who are languishing in hospitals or being ferried there, taken there right now.
BLITZER: But it is possible that Arafat and those loyal to him had nothing to do with this and that some other group was simply trying to undermine him, his authority, embarrass the entire Palestinian movement, and engage in this kind of suicide bombings. That's possible, right?
SOFER: We are a few minutes into the event right now, just happening a half an hour ago, an hour ago. This type of speculation is something which I think is a little bit early and shouldn't be made at this stage. As I say, we have seen in the past that the two from the extremist elements which are the so-called moderate elements, even those emanating from the Fatah movement, from Arafat's own society, have been heavily involved in this type of atrocity. And I really don't care whether it comes from one group or another group, a massacre of civilians is massacre of civilians. Slaughter of innocent people going and enjoying an evening out is a slaughter of innocent people if it comes from Arafat's Fatah or it comes from Hamas or Islamic Jihad or the Tanzim or wherever, slaughter is slaughter.
BLITZER: Ambassador Sofer of the Israeli foreign ministry, thanks so much for joining us.
And we will, of course, continue to get some reaction from Palestinians as well. We will effort that.
Just to recap, according to the Israeli government, initial reports, 16, 16 confirmed dead in a billiard club in Rishon Letzion. Fifty-one others injured, many of them very seriously injured. According to the Israeli government, Hamas, the Palestinian militant group, claiming responsibility for this incident in Rishon Letzion occurring just as President Bush was sitting down in the Oval Office with the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon.
We are going to continue to monitor this major development in Rishon Letzion, a town of some 100,000 just south of Tel Aviv. Our Jerrold Kessel is on the way. He should be there momentarily. We will get an eyewitness report from him. We will also get some other reaction as well when we come back. We will also check in some other major domestic developments unfolding in the United States. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're continuing our special coverage of this latest terrorist incident in a town south of Tel Aviv, Rishon Letzion. An Israeli government official telling CNN only a few moments ago, preliminary reports, 16 dead, 51 injured in a suicide bombing in what's described as a billiard club on the third floor of a building in Rishon Letzion. We're going to continue to monitor the story.
I want to quickly check out some other major developments in the United States. In other news, there's a manhunt under way for the search for the individual responsible or individuals responsible for that series of pipe bombings throughout the Midwest. Our Rusty Dornin is standing by. She's in Omaha, Nebraska and she has the latest -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, just a few hours ago, the ATF and the FBI, the postal inspectors stepped outside and talked with us and gave us a picture and told us a little bit about the man they are very interested in talking to. They fall short of calling him an actual suspect in these bombings. But they really want to talk to Luke John Helder.
He's 21-year-old. He just turned 21 on May 5, which is on Sunday. He's 5'9, weighs about 150 pounds, a white male. And he is driving a gray, four-door Honda with a Minnesota license plate of EZL 873. Now they said they're very interested in talking to him. He's a University of Wisconsin stout (ph) student. Mean time, postal inspectors here are saying that their first concern really is still for the safety of their postal employees and those of their customers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK BOWDREN, U.S. POSTAL INSPECTOR, MIDWEST DIVISION: We're very encouraged by the recent days in which -- even though devices have been placed, they have not meant to harm anyone. We certainly see this as a very positive sign. And together with Jim, we would like to encourage Luke to come forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now it looks like this Luke Helder was also a member of a band called Apathy, who has a Web site that's apparently been flooded with a lot of messages today, both pro and con, talking about his being named as suspect. But so far, they want to talk to him. They will not say actually how they discovered his identity, although sources tell us that someone did step forward and call the authorities to name Helder as a suspect -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rusty Dornin, thank you very much. Rusty Dornin reporting from Omaha, Nebraska on this pipe bombing, a series of pipe bombings in mailboxes throughout the Midwest.
Today was opening day of a trial involving a cousin in the Kennedy family. Deborah Feyerick is covering the trial in Norwalk, Connecticut of Michael Skakel. Deborah, tell us what happened on this opening day in this high interest trial?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, she's been dead for 26 years, but Martha Moxley was very much alive in that courtroom today. In the morning, it was her smiling face looking down on the courtroom. In the afternoon, a very different image, Martha laying face down, the back of her skull crushed in, her blond hair bloody.
And it wasn't only her picture, but it was also her voice. Photocopies of diary entries handed out to members of the press, she writes about her friendship with Tommy and Michael Skakel, how Michael bought her an ice cream cone, a double scoop, and then he later accused her of leading his brother Tommy on.
Another entry a few days later said the night ended badly because Michael and his brothers almost got into a fistfight. Michael acting like a big he-man, she said. Her mom was the first witness on the stand. She talked about hearing a commotion on the side of the house, teenage voices in the area where Martha was later found. She opened the window, turned on the porch light, but didn't see anyone. So she turned porch light off because she was afraid that whoever may be out there might steal Martha's brand new 10-speed bike. It also came out during the hearing that Mrs. Moxley went to a hypnotist because she was concerned that maybe she heard Martha screaming as she closed that window. The Moxleys left the court before the photos were introduced into evidence. They wanted to avoid seeing that, but the jury got a close-hand look at some of the grizzly photographs of Martha. At one point, the jury even holding the murder weapon, the pieces of the golf club used to kill Martha Moxley -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much for that report on the Michael Skakel trial today, first day of that trial in Norwalk, Connecticut.
Jeffrey Toobin, our CNN legal analyst, is on the scene as well. Any major surprises on this first day -- Jeffrey.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think what was the most important news was that there was no surprise in the government's opening statement. The evidence is pretty much what we expected it was going to be, which is no -- no eyewitness testimony, no scientific testimony tying Michael Skakel to this crime scene. Only the circumstantial case, the weapon, the golf club coming from the Skakel home and these very controversial, very much disputed so-called confessions that Skakel made to various classmates in his school for troubled wealthy youth.
Those were attacked strongly by Mickey Sherman, the defense attorney, in his opening statement saying that those statements were lies by publicity seekers. I think today's testimony very much was setting the stage. It was the discovery of the body, all the grizzly crime scene photographs. But in terms of evidence against Michael Skakel presented in court today, there was almost none.
BLITZER: And as far as the whole issue, Jeffrey, that this murder occurred so many years ago, people's memories obviously changed, witnesses have died. How much of an impact will that have presumably?
TOOBIN: It comes up all the time in court. Almost every witness in cross-examination or even direct examination is asked some question on the lines of, well, this happened a long time ago didn't it, and you don't really remember this as well as you used to, didn't you? Those sorts of questions are coming up from both sides. But it just adds to the problems of the prosecution here because they're the ones with the burden of proof. They're the ones who have to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael Skakel committed this crime. And if people's memories have faded, as they clearly have, that's a problem for the government.
BLITZER: All right. Jeffrey Toobin on the scene in Norwalk, Connecticut for this trial, which obviously has high interest.
We have some reaction from the father of the individual that the police are seeking in connection with that -- those series of pipe bombings in mailboxes in the rural part of the Midwest. I want to play an excerpt of what the father has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really want you to know that Luke is not a dangerous person. I think he's just trying to make a statement about the way our government is run. I think Luke wants people to listen to his ideas and not enough people are hearing him and he thinks this may help.
Luke, you need to talk to someone. Please don't hurt anyone else. It's time to talk. You have the attention you wanted. Luke, we love you very much. We want you home safe. Please call, Mom, Jenna (ph) and I. We need you very much. And we really do need our privacy. This is really tough. So please just let us try to cope with this. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Obviously, a distraught father appealing to his son to come forward explaining what's been going on as far as from his vantage point on these series of these pipe bombings in the Midwest part of the United States.
Our top story now, this latest apparently suicide bombing just south of Tel Aviv in the town of Rishon Letzion. An Israeli government official saying some 16 people confirmed dead, 51 injured. Saeb Erakat is the chief Palestinian spokesman. He joins us on the phone from his home in Jericho. Mr. Erakat, what do you know about this incident?
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN SPOKESMAN: Not much. Nobody claimed responsibility. But, Wolf, having said this, President Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority just issued the following communique about five minutes ago condemning with the strongest possible terms this suicide attack that claimed the lives of 16 Israelis and wounded more than 50.
The statement read that the Palestinian Authority will take every possible action if it proves that goes behind this attack, had anything to do or coming from Palestinian areas. But the statement said that our condemnation in the strong possible terms, we will never and we don't condone the killing of civilians with the Palestinians and Israelis.
Wolf, you have to keep in mind that this such action now comes at a time when Palestinian towns, villages, refugee camps are totally sealed. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and yet these things (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: Mr. Erakat, unfortunately, Saeb Erakat, your phone line seems to be breaking up. We're going to try to get a new line and we'll get back to you, Saeb Erakat, saying on behalf of the Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat that Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority condemn in the strongest possible terms this terror attack in Rishon Letzion.
President Bush at the same time, just issuing a statement expressing disgust at this wanton taking of innocent life. We're going to continue to monitor these latest developments.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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