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CNN Live Today
Fmr. State Department Spokesman Rubin Discusses Middle East
Aired May 08, 2002 - 10:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We want to go ahead and take a closer look at the crisis in the Middle East, and for that, we bring in former State Department spokesman, James Rubin, joining us from London.
Jamie, hello -- thanks for joining us today.
JAMES RUBIN, FMR. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Nice to be with you.
KAGAN: We want to use your insight to look at where each of these participants goes from here, starting with Israel. Before the prime minister left Washington, D.C., he gave a speech with some very, very strong words, including this quote, where he said, "He who rises up to kill us, we will preempt and kill him first." Those sound like very strong words like retaliation is on the way.
RUBIN: Well, clearly, Prime Minister Sharon is reflecting the rage that people in Israel and people in all of the civilized world feel when they see these kind of mass murders taking place, and people praising and rushing to take responsibility for mass murder. But you have to think about whether to get beyond this rage is the sane policy at this time. Rage doesn't necessarily make for the most wise policymaking.
Retaliation is justified when mass murder takes place against Israeli civilians. I think all of us can understand why a military response would be justified. But just as we knew that even after the Israelis conducted this large-scale operation in the West Bank, that it wasn't going to end suicide bombing. A wise policy has to be based on the idea of what can stop suicide bombing, and the only time that suicide bombing has been brought to a minimum or eliminated was during the period when Israeli and Palestinian security services were cooperating, two, three, four, five, six years ago.
KAGAN: Well, excuse, Jamie, but...
RUBIN: And that's what we have to get back to.
KAGAN: The Israelis would point out that there was a nice pause just in recent weeks during their military incursion. They would say that's what it takes in order to bring the suicide bombing to a stop.
RUBIN: Well, it didn't bring the suicide bombings to a stop. It caused a pause, and I think that was expected. The Palestinian operations were in jeopardy when the Israelis were going in and making these attacks, but it was never going to stop it. The Israeli military officials themselves made very clear that this kind of military operation by the Israelis was not going to stop suicide bombing.
All I am pointing out is that the best evidence we have ever had for when suicide bombing doesn't take place is when Israeli and Palestinian security officials are cooperating, and that's what the objective of our policy ought to be and what a good Israeli policy ought to be.
KAGAN: Well, let's look at what Yasser Arafat should do next. He did come out with strong words condemning this latest bombing. But when he talks about going and looking for the suspects, he says, you know, basically I would, but the Israelis have come in and they have basically decimated my police force. So unless you come in with international help and help me build my police again, I really can't help you out.
RUBIN: Well, Chairman Arafat obviously doesn't have a lot of credibility when it comes to this subject. He had plenty of time over the last 18 months before the Israelis went in and destroyed much of the security apparatus to crack down on terrorist operations, to prevent the Hamas and the other organizations from conducting these attacks. And he made a strategic decision. He decided that it was in his interest to allow this type of terrorism to go forward.
Whether he ordered it or allowed it to happen is really a moot point. It happened, and he did little, if anything, to stop it. So he is kind of in a funny position now to cry, I can't do anything about it, and I want to do something about it.
But the truth is that if, again, we are going to get back to some period of calm for the people of Israel and the Palestinians, a new Palestinian security operation needs to be put together, hopefully with the help of the American CIA director, George Tenet. And that operation has to yield cooperation with the Israelis.
And so when Sharon simply declares Arafat responsible for this operation, I don't think he has a lot of credibility either. Arafat was obviously not behind this Hamas operation, and Sharon doesn't do himself any good by claiming that he was. We have to get back to security cooperation, and that's where the American role comes in.
KAGAN: And we will look forward to that. You bring us some very wise and reasoned and calm ideas. Hopefully some of those are filtering through to the rage in the Middle East. James Rubin joining us from London -- Jamie, thank you very much.
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