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CNN Live Today

Robert Hanssen Will be Sentenced This Morning

Aired May 10, 2002 - 10:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of lie detector tests, coming up this morning, a man who is quite familiar with those is Robert Hanssen. He is the confessed spy who has been convicted. Well, he will be sentenced this morning, and that happens in Alexandria, Virginia, where our national security correspondent, David Ensor, has attended the hearing there -- good morning, David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Leon. He has, in fact, been sentenced to life in prison without parole. He appeared in the courtroom looking gaunt and pale, the effect, we are told, of prison food.

And he gave an apology. The words were as follows: "I apologize for my behavior. I am shamed by it," he said. "I have opened the door for calumny against my totally innocent wife and children. I have hurt so many deeply."

His defense attorney was asked, why did he do it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PLATO CACHERIS, HANSSEN DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There are a lot of complex reasons as to why he did it. I don't know that I want to get into them. What has been said is there were monetary reasons, there were ego reasons. There's a whole panoply of reasons. None of them are valid; otherwise, he wouldn't be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Now, the courtroom was full of people from the FBI, who wanted to see the traitor in their midst face his punishment. And the government's goal in this hearing today -- after all, Hanssen has done all of the damage he can do -- at this point was to send a message to any other American who might be planning anything similar.

Here is the U.S. attorney, Paul McNulty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MCNULTY, U.S. ATTORNEY: For those who are tempted to betray their country, to give away its secrets, hear this: Robert Hanssen was trained to catch spies. He was an expert at what it took to avoid being caught. And he was caught, and he was punished. And that's what will happen to anyone who betrays this country. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: And so as one FBI official commented, "Comes closure to the darkest chapter in the FBI's history" -- Leon.

HARRIS: Well, David, we know that there was a plea bargain in this case, which is why Hanssen is sentenced into the big life sentence and not a death sentence here. But is the government satisfied with the cooperation that he has actually given them to get that plea bargain?

ENSOR: Not entirely, Leon, no. In a document that was put out a week ago, it was made clear that some in the CIA and some others around the government who have interrogated him are not entirely satisfied that he has told them everything that he gave to the Russians. They are not happy.

At the same time, the view was expressed here today that he has cooperated sufficiently, that on balance, he has done most or almost all of what he was required to do. He will, of course, face additional questioning in the many years to come, but the U.S. will no longer have the weapon that it could use of threatening him with the death sentence. So a lot of questioning yet to come, but with less tools for the government to use -- Leon.

HARRIS: Yes. You got it. David Ensor, thank you very much -- David Ensor in Alexandria, Virginia.

Now, let's get a view of the Hanssen case from the other side of the espionage world. Stanislav Lunev is the highest ranking military officer to ever defect from Russia to the U.S. This former colonel says that while spying in the U.S., he helped formulate warplanes against it. He joins us now by telephone.

Mr. Lunev, thank you -- Colonel Lunev, thank you very much for your time this morning. We know you are a very busy man.

Let me ask you, first off, of your thoughts about the Hanssen case. I know that you don't know much about the case itself, because you have just been following it through the newspapers, as we all have been. But is it your view that he was actually turned over by the KGB?

COL. STANISLEV LUNEV, FMR. RUSSIAN SPY: Good morning, Leon. Yes, he began to work for the KGB about a quarter of a century, and made a lot of damage to the United States national security.

HARRIS: Let me ask you about what this sentencing of him today might actually do to the spy community. I mean, if you can just give us an idea, since you have actually lived the life. Would a sentence like this, this life sentence that he has received today, and his case, the way it has played out in the papers, would this put a chill on the spy community? Or would this actually issue a challenge to those who are in it, those who think that they are so good, they can't be caught? LUNEV: Leon, it is very good question, because damage from him is really high. But the decision, which was made a few minutes ago over his case, is a good lesson for people who would like to follow his example or continue their spy business for Russia, China and other hostile states and actually for friendly intelligence agencies.

HARRIS: What kind of lesson?

LUNEV: That people who are working against America and against American people, finally they would be punished, and maybe those guys, who continue to spy against America. They don't keep in mind one more point, because I am not very detailed, familiar with this case. But for me it looks like that his handlers (ph) from former KGB, when information from Mr. Hanssen was reviewed, dramatically (ph) they decided to set him up and actually needed (ph) his arrest by the FBI.

HARRIS: Let me ask you this, because you have actually -- since you have actually crossed the line here, you have done something that Robert Hanssen did as well. You have actually worked for a country that you pretty much were raised to believe was the enemy here. What is it like? And what do you have to do to get over the fact that what you are doing is betraying both your country and your colleagues, who are risking their lives?

LUNEV: A really good question. And a lot of psychological mind (ph) is in this case. Because for me, the portrayal of Mr. Hanssen looks very strange. He began to dream about to become a double agent since the age of 13 years, if I am correct. And for me, it looks like that something was wrong with his mind, and maybe he is not normal psychologically, as normal people are.

HARRIS: But again, what is it that you have you to do in your own mind and in your own heart to actually get over the fact that you are betraying your country, and you are betraying people that you have actually sworn to defend and work with until the death?

LUNEV: In my case, it is a little bit different, because I never betrayed my country, and I didn't betray my people. But country, I worked for, for a long, long period of time, disappeared at the end of 1991. And unfortunately, when I got a chance to find for myself that some information I received was released for people who trust me. I am not talking about my own reason (ph), but people who trust me. It was going to very, very wrong hands. Of course, I made my decision, but until now, I cannot name it as betrayal.

HARRIS: Interesting. Colonel, let me ask you one final question. You know, as we have been talking this morning, you know, the FBI really looked over this case or missed a lot of different clues they could have picked up on early on in this case with Robert Hanssen. You as a spy who have actually, again as I said, crossed the line here, if you were working in the same office with him knowing what you know about how you made that decision, could you have seen what he did and could you have picked him out?

LUNEV: You know, Mr. Hanssen's case is a direct result of the decline in the United States national security during the last several years, and it put on his case (UNINTELLIGIBLE) country. I can tell you that he was under suspicion for a long period of time, but American bureaucracy -- you know, before I came to this country, I believed that Soviet bureaucracy is the strongest in the world. But I was absolutely wrong, because American bureaucracy sometimes works so hard against America that it is unbelievable.

HARRIS: Very interesting. Colonel Stanislav Lunev, we thank you very much for your time and your unique insight this morning. We sure do appreciate it. Thank you very much for taking time to talk with us.

We should also mention that Colonel Lunev is the author of "Through the Eyes of the Enemy," if you want to know some more about his story.

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