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CNN Live Today
Hanssen's Decision to Spy For Moscow Took Him Down Path Paved by Spies Before Him
Aired May 10, 2002 - 13:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: As we mentioned earlier, Robert Hanssen will spend rest of his life in prison. Hanssen was convicted for spying for Moscow. That decision took him down a path paved by other spies before him. The lives they lead can be confounding.
Garrick Utley with more on this story in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Does he look like a spy, or more like your neighbor next door? Which Robert Hanssen was, in suburban Virginia, where he raised a family, went to church, and from time to time, took a walk in a park, where he left a wealth of the most sensitive American secrets for Russian agents to pick up. He sold the names of spies working for the United States, who were then caught and executed by the Russians.
PETER EARNEST, INTERNATIONAL SPY MUSEUM: Hanssen was a very bright guy, which is one of the reasons he came close to being the perfect spy.
UTLEY: Spies fascinate us because of the risks they take and the double lives they lead. But how do spies see themselves?
"THE SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD," PARAMOUNT PICTURES: What the hell do you think spies are? Model philosophers measuring everything they do against the word of god, or Karl Marx? They're not. They're just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me, little men, drunkards, queers, henpecked husbands, civil servants playing cowboys and Indians to brighten their rotten little lives.
UTLEY: And then, there was Aldrich Ames. Aldrich Ames' job at the CIA was to spy on Soviet spies. Then he became a Soviet spy, for money. He was playing both sides when he interrogated Vitaly Yurchenko, a KGB colonel, who defected to the United States in 1985. Was Yurchenko a plant? Three months later, Yurchenko defected again, back to the Soviet Union. The goal in the spy game is to see how deep you can penetrate the other side.
After World War II, Kim Philby reached the highest level of British intelligence while spying for Moscow. Another Soviet spy, Anthony Blunt, the ultimate English gentleman, was the curator of Queen Elizabeth's art collection. But then, who are spies but any face in the crowd? And also, that rarest of faces, someone who does not want the world to know who he or she really is, and really does, who doesn't even want 15 seconds of fame.
So, perhaps it is ironic, or just smart marketing, that a museum is being built in Washington devoted to espionage. Attractions will include tools of the trade, from spy cameras, to a Russian spy shoe with a radio transmitter built into the heel. The museum's director worked for the CIA handling spies.
EARNEST: We can often develop information or intelligence about capabilities, through overhead satellites and all kind of other technical acquisition programs, but it is through human intelligence that you try to get into the minds, if you will, of your opponent. UTLEY: Whatever motivates a spy, money, adventure, do they - did Robert Hanssen think he could get away with it?
EARNEST: I think anybody of his intelligence knows that his time may be limited, that he can't go on doing what he is doing forever.
UTLEY: When Hanssen was finally uncovered and arrested, his only question was, what took you so long?
Garrick Utley, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: More about that mystique surrounding espionage, the author of "The Spy Next Door, the Extraordinary Secret Life of Robert Hanssen." The author is Elaine Shannon. She also covered the story for "Time" magazine and joins us live in D.C. Elaine, good afternoon. It's good to talk to you again. Garrick Utley did an excellent job laying out a lot of the principles for spying itself. What do you think it was that drove Hanssen, in this case?
ELAINE SHANNON, AUTHOR, "THE SPY NEXT DOOR": This guy is a creepiest guy I have ever covered, except some serial murderers. And there are some similarities there. In fact, three people died in serial because of this man, in large part.
HEMMER: Creepy how, Elaine?
SHANNON: Well, he absolutely was the man next door, six kids, lovely wife. His desk had crucifixes on it. He proselytized people to arch-conservative catholic clauses and right wing ideological causes. At same time, he was selling everything he could get his hands on to the Russians. And he was also - had this lurid sex life. He was posting messages on the fetish sites on Internet. He was inviting his best friend to watch him and his wife in bed and worse. And he was also keeping, for a time, a stripper, who he had at least one episode of actual sex with. But otherwise, he liked to just watch her do her thing.
HEMMER: Elaine, we're learning a lot more about Robert Hanssen. We have ever since the case broke. Certainly, you know as much about him as just about anybody right now. If we are learning about him, what is the FBI learning about itself right now in trying to counter some of the damage that was done, not just by Hanssen, but by possibly others who may be working as well now?
SHANNON: Well, they have learned not to make any assumptions about the purity of their own ranks. People in law enforcement, like reporters, tend to believe that our instincts about who is bad, who is good are really, really well honed and trained. Well here, everybody was fooled. That is part of the intrigue of this man. So they decided, well, they can't catch - see all these psychological traits. They're going to have to compartmentalize their computers a lot better, knowing that something is going to be lost, but hoping it won't be whole thing.
HEMMER: Some say the Russians had the bargain of a lifetime in this man. How so?
SHANNON: This is the weird thing. Here is a guy who says he did it for money, yet he didn't force them to bid. He gave them the crown jewels. He said, basically, pay me whatever you think it is worth. And they are quite cheap, so they paid him over -
HEMMER: And he let them name the price, did he not?
SHANNON: Yes. Who would do that? What does that mean? It means rage to me, anger.
HEMMER: We heard from a prosecutor earlier. He called this the cruelest kind of thief. Take that a step further. What was he meaning by that?
SHANNON: That was Paul McNulty, U.S. Attorney. He means a person who is in an ultimate position of trust. Some people are what they say they are, and you are not surprised when they try to steal your wallet. But this guy posed as such a sanctimonious, holier-than- thou, arrogant, scornful guy. And yet he stole secrets, and he also betrayed his wife. I did a story this week about how he invited his friend to give her a date rape drug and have his way when she was unconscious. His friend wouldn't do it, but it's absolutely stunning.
HEMMER: We want to get to John Ashcroft in a moment here. But one more question before I let you go. He did answer questions. I think his attorney, Plato Cacheris, said 200 hours, 75 days. Investigators, though, on the FBI side say they are not satisfied with that. What did he not give them after this plea bargain was reached?
SHANNON: Well, like a lot of other people we have seen on these screens, he had major, major lapses of memory. And he got a major case of slows. The CIA isn't happy with him either, but at end of the day, putting him on trial would mean spilling a lot of national security secrets they don't want out there. It just wasn't worth the price to them.
HEMMER: Thanks, Elaine. Elaine Shannon, "Time" magazine, also the author of "The Life of Robert Hanssen." Thank again.
SHANNON: Thank you.
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