Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Talkback Live

Florida Girl Remains Missing; Maryland's Governor Places Hold on Executions

Aired May 10, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN HOST: Hey, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. It's the end of the week here at TALKBACK, which means Free-For-All Friday, and it has been quite a week.

A young man is accused of putting pipe bombs in mailboxes. Is he a terrorist or confused, perhaps misguided 21-year-old?

And this is the weekend to honor your mom, so call me and let me know what makes your mom so special. The number is 1-800-310-4CNN or, of course, you can e-mail me at Talkback@cnn.com.

And there's even more to talk about. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JEB BUSH, (R) FLORIDA: I know there's a tremendous amount of interest in this, and because of just the heartbreaking aspects of a child unloved that's been lost for so long.

NEVILLE (voice-over): This afternoon, Rilya Wilson is still lost. And police in Missouri still have a murder mystery on their hands. There's no DNA match between an unidentified murder victim there named Precious Doe and Rilya Wilson.

GOV. PARRIS GLENDENING (D) MARYLAND: But we must know before we take anyone's life that the system indeed has been fair, impartial and just.

NEVILLE: Until he knows for sure, Maryland's governor puts all executions on hold. His concern: that racial bias may play a role in who's sentenced to death row.

And here's a switch, Dan Quayle praising Ozzy Osbourne.

DAN QUAYLE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have a mother and father that are very involved with their children. I actually found some redeeming value of this rather bizarre family relationship.

NEVILLE: This, from the guy who thought Murphy Brown was an unfit mother?

(END VIDEO CLIP) NEVILLE: Why are you all laughing at that, huh? Yeah, OK, I'm going to talk to you later about that.

OK, we're going to start right now.

Our panel today: Lucianne Goldberg, a talk show host for Talk Radio Network out of New York. Also there, Judge Glenda Hatchett. Her television show is now in its third season. In Philadelphia, Michael Smerconish, a columnist with "The Philadelphia Daily News" and a trial lawyer, and starting Monday he'll start doing a new talk radio show in Philadelphia. And ready to go in Pittsburgh, Bev Smith, from American Urban Radio Network -- hello everybody.

LUCIANNE GOLDBERG, TALK RADIO NETWORK: Hello.

JUDGE GLENDA HATCHETT, TV'S "JUDGE HATCHETT": Hello.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, COLUMNIST: Hello.

BEV SMITH, AMER. URBAN RADIO NETWORK: Hello.

NEVILLE: All right. This is a good panel. Good panel. OK, panel, hang on, though, because we're going to start with the search for a little lost girl -- the DNA that did not match up.

Police have confirmed that Rilya Wilson and Precious Doe are not one in the same. Rilya, as you know, is the five-year-old girl who apparently fell through the cracks of Florida's child welfare system. And Precious Doe, the name given to a child whose body was found last year in Kansas City.

Now for more, let's go to CNN's Susan Candiotti in Miami -- Susan, what's the latest?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in addition to the information about the DNA, the fact that there is no match, we got some new information today from the man who is leading the police investigation here in Miami-Dade County. Very unusual information because the police chief decided to disclose the results of some of the lie detector tests that were given to two of the key witnesses in this case.

You'll remember we introduced you to the woman who believes she is the paternal grandmother of Rilya Wilson, as well as Rilya Wilson's sister. Well these two women voluntarily submitted to lie detector tests last week. And, today, the police chief revealed that they showed deception in parts of the tests. However, a spokesman says the area in which they showed deception did not have any great significance about the whereabouts of Rilya Wilson, but some other aspects of the questioning they were given.

And so they're really surprised -- at least observers are -- that the chief would decide to release this information. Some of the observers say it's because he's trying to shake things up a bit. Because the chief says he's not able to get to the bottom of this yet. In his view, a lot of the people they've spoken with so far, including employees of the child welfare agency, in the chief's words, are "not telling him the truth."

NEVILLE: Hey, Susan, do you have any idea what sort of questions the police asked on that polygraph test?

CANDIOTTI: Well, certainly, there would be investigative questions: Do you know where she is -- questions such as those -- Did you have anything to do with that? I don't know that that's the precise wording of the question.

NEVILLE: Sure.

CANDIOTTI: But they would also ask what are called control questions, simple things about your background, your history, those kinds of things. And so we do not know exactly what the questions were in which they showed deception.

NEVILLE: And the woman, Geralyn Graham, who you're saying that she is believed to the grandmother, and the reason why she believes that she is the grandmother is because the father of Rilya has not been -- they're not really sure who the father is.

CANDIOTTI: That's right. There's been no blood test.

NEVILLE: Right. So that's why we're saying that she believes she's the grandmother, because her son she believes is the father.

CANDIOTTI: Yeah. Although she did have legal custody of this child -- technically her sister did. They lived together and were caring for Rilya.

NEVILLE: Right. And tell us about that apparently Geralyn Graham reportedly had mild forms or stages of dementia.

CANDIOTTI: Well there have been reports, according to a lawsuit that she filed following a car accident. There was an assessment of her reportedly by a doctor in the case. And the significance of it really is quite questionable.

NEVILLE: Right.

CANDIOTTI: I think what police are perhaps more interested in would include information about her criminal background. She admits that she did time for food stamp fraud, and she has been arrested on other occasions for passing bad checks and also using aliases.

Now Geralyn Graham told us in an interview just the other day that she is not a violent person, and she denied any involvement in the disappearance of Rilya.

NEVILLE: And tell us, then, about the sketch artist. Because I understand that it was brought in my Graham's attorney and "America's Most Wanted" but not the police. Why not the police?

CANDIOTTI: Well, actually, the sketch artist was brought in by the TV show "America's Most Wanted." And we are told that Geralyn Graham agreed to do it. That, in fact, a sketch was completed. However, we were told by a television station affiliated with CNN that there might be some question now as to whether "America's Most Wanted" will use that photograph. Although it has been posted on their Web site, at least earlier today.

Now the police say that they are not at the stage in their investigation where they are ready to pursue that line of questioning: trying to get the grandmother to remember through a sketch artist what the woman looked like -- the social worker that she turned the little girl over to around January of 2001. They might get to it, but they're not at that stage.

NEVILLE: Right -- right. But the good news is I believe that at least it seems like there's more pressure to get to the bottom of this story.

CANDIOTTI: Well there is and there has been, but the fact of the matter is, you have a very cold trail on your hands.

NEVILLE: I know.

CANDIOTTI: It's been 16 months...

NEVILLE: It's been long.

CANDIOTTI: ... since there is any record that anyone has seen the little girl. And they're relying solely, at this point, on the word of the grandmother.

NEVILLE: Susan Candiotti, thank you very much for that update.

CANDIOTTI: You're welcome.

NEVILLE: OK? All right, panel, you heard the information, this new information that just came out.

Michael, I'm going to go with you since you're the only boy on this panel.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Arthel, how are you doing?

NEVILLE: I'm good.

SMERCONISH: Hey, that new show is on WPHT in Philadelphia come Monday.

NEVILLE: Is that right?

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

NEVILLE: All right, go ahead.

SMERCONISH: Now, listen, here's the bottom line -- and maybe it's because I just watched Dan Quayle. Either that or Ozzy Osbourne in the film footage. To me, it's a case, of course, about bureaucratic incompetence, because the child welfare folks were not keeping an eye on this young girl. But it's also a case about the breakdown of the American family.

What a scrambled social picture I'm thinking exists when I hear about all the relatives and the caregivers and so forth. Families need to stick together. That's the bottom line here.

NEVILLE: Judge Hatchett, how do you see this?

HATCHETT: Well, let me tell you, it's not that simple. I mean if we can say that families could just stick together and all of our problems would be solved, I certainly wish that our families were more intact. But the reality is that there are some children who have special needs and whose families aren't able to care for them.

The question really is: Are we putting them in a system that is already overwhelmed? And do we need to have another look at that? Do we need to reevaluate the ratio of caseworkers to children and to have more support? Ultimately, we'd like to prevent that and we'd like to put families back intact. And I certainly agree with you, but we need to be realistic that there are going to be some children in America who will need the help of a foster care system.

NEVILLE: Lucianne?

GOLDBERG: Well I mean see it kind of both ways; I agree with both the speakers. This system seems to have dreadfully broken down. I mean when you have a grandmother who says maybe my son is the father, the father's not around. You've got food stamp fraud, you have drug problems. I mean it's a terrible mess.

But then you go look at Ozzy Osbourne and they're in the same house. They're all sitting down to dinner albeit, you know, on the floor or under the table some place. But it does go back to the root cause of family and how the family has been, I think, allowed to disintegrate in this country.

NEVILLE: Bev.

SMITH: Well I'm going to have to agree with my friend the judge. I think that this case is indicative of what's happening in child welfare across the country. That this is just the tip of the iceberg.

For years, caseworkers across the country have been screaming and hollering and certainly appearing on the Bev Smith show on the American Urban Radio Networks saying, "We're overwhelmed." Some caseworkers have as many as 300 to 400 cases; an impossible task for them.

And I think that this is indicative of what's happening not only in Florida, but everywhere else. We need a new look at how we handle children who are displaced from their families in this country. This child has been gone for a year and we're just now talking about it?

NEVILLE: Exactly.

SMITH: This child has been missing for a year and all of a sudden we're just looking for her? SMERCONISH: The system is always going to be tapped.

SMITH: The system should not be always...

SMERCONISH: There's never going to be enough money to get the job done.

SMITH: Well that's -- when we have to do something about it.

SMERCONISH: So let's go to the root and talk about why are these families disintegrating.

SMITH: We have to do something about it. And maybe if we spent more tax dollars on child welfare and aid to families in distress...

SMERCONISH: Oh, never -- never.

SMITH: ... instead of the military, we would not be having these kinds of problems.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Hang on a second. Michael, hold on to that thought. I want to hear what you have to say after the break. I've got to go to break right now.

Don't go anywhere. We have a lot more to say about this case. And, later, should mailbox bomb suspect Luke Helder be treated as a terrorist or just some mixed up kid? TALKBACK LIVE continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody. Free-For-All Friday here on TALKBACK LIVE. We're talking about the search for Rilya Wilson. And Michael, as promised, you're up first.

SMERCONISH: Arthel, I think that for the last 40 or so years our gut reaction to a situation like this has been to say, well I guess we need to spend more money -- more taxpayer money -- to fix the problem. But it's time to think outside the box. The real issue here is the disintegration of the family, and the spending of public dollars has caused that. Because we've created a welfare system that encourages the man in the house to get out, and that's the problem.

HATCHETT: Oh I disagree with that. No, no, no, that is not the problem.

SMITH: That is not the problem.

HATCHETT: That is an oversimplification of the issue. There are children who come into the foster care system -- because I've been a juvenile court judge for a long time -- who come in through no fault of their parents sometimes. You have people who have miserable illnesses or serious disabilities who have to come in.

But let's go back a step or two. We have to do a better job of educating people in this country. We have to do a better job of eliminating poverty. There are some basic systemic problems here in America that really will give rise to stronger family groups if we're willing to invest on the front end as opposed to the back end.

I don't disagree that we need to do more to preserve families, but to say simply that by having a welfare state is creating this problem is not the answer.

NEVILLE: So, judge, when you say...

SMITH: I thoroughly agree.

NEVILLE: So, judge, when you say getting in on the front end as opposed to the back end, what do you mean by that?

HATCHETT: Like, for instance, head-start programs. We have got to invest on the front end of ways that we are making young people stronger, so that we are breaking these cycles of dependency. A child who drops out of school, for instance, all research tells us, is far more likely to then have children who will drop out and who will not be in a situation to support their families.

Let's get serious about intervening in our children's lives in a way that they are going to be stronger parents, because they are going to be stronger adults.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: OK.

SMITH: And you know what?

NEVILLE: Go ahead, Bev.

SMITH: If I can say this, Glenda and I generally agree when she's a guest on my show, and I think we're going to do it today on your show. One of the things that I really want to stress is that there have been warning signals from social workers who work within the system for years. But this department, child welfare, across the country is the throw away department because children don't vote.

I'd like to talk to the administrators of the department to find out do they have meetings, do they look at the cases? Where is the file, who were the two people that showed up? Was there a caseworker assigned to the grandmother? Was there a caseworker assigned to the mother? What happened to the system?

This is too easy to yell politically the welfare system. It sounds like Michael is campaigning. We're on at WHAT (ph) in Philadelphia, and you'll be able to hear what family members have to say.

SMERCONISH: Hey, I'm not campaigning for anything. No. Let me -- ma'am, let me give you the answer.

SMITH: This is an overwhelmed system. SMERCONISH: Here's the answer: the judge talks about well the answer is the head-start program. No, your honor, the answer is to have a man under the roof in that house who kicks some butt and who takes some names...

SMITH: Oh get serious.

SMERCONISH: ... when the kids want to drop out of school and go have kids.

HATCHETT: You misunderstood me. I said we've got to invest in our children.

(CROSSTALK)

HATCHETT: No, no. We have got to invest for children who don't...

SMERCONISH: Money, money, money, money, money.

NEVILLE: Hang on. Let her finish.

HATCHETT: We have to invest in ways for children to have a level playing field in this country, Michael. I don't disagree that we want to have families intact. That is my hope and wish for all children in America. But we also have to understand that there are some systemic problems that are causing our families not to have the floor that they need under them.

And if we don't -- if we're not honest about that, we will never fix it. You can't cure it unless you understand what the problem is.

NEVILLE: OK, I've got Randy here in the audience -- go ahead, Randy.

RANDY: I'm a school teacher, and bureaucracy and tax money is not going to fix the problem. Parental and family responsibility will fix the problem.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: Thank you. And, Ray, stand up for me -- what do you say, Ray?

RAY: Well I just wanted to make a comment about the correlation people have between like food stamp fraud and drug problems. I think it's when we make these kinds of assumptions about groups of people and society, and especially economic status that people have, that we end up with problems like this. Because if we just dismiss them as, oh, well this is a family that has a drug problem or this woman has a drug problem versus she just needs economic aid, then this is where we come up with people are overlooked.

And this is why we have these problems in the first place. So if we kind of making these kind of assumptions, maybe something like this wouldn't happen. NEVILLE: Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

SMITH: And, you know what? If I can for a moment, I'd like to just address the issue of men. I'd like to see Michael begin to work with men. I'd like to see him address that issue in a men's group, where men are trained and taught to be in the home. Maybe then, women like this woman can get the kind of support she needs.

No one will argue -- no one in their right mind can argue that we don't need men in the home.

NEVILLE: There's the bell, got to move on.

SMITH: There's the bell -- OK.

NEVILLE: Up next, a college student heads for -- where's he going?

JENNIFER: Jail.

NEVILLE: You say jail -- Jennifer says jail, we're not sure. We're going to find out after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Oh I can feel it. You're ready to talk on this one. I know you're ready, I can feel it. OK.

Accused mailbox bomber Luke Helder is headed off to Iowa. The college student who just turned 21 faces a growing list of federal charges. He is accused of planting 18 pipe bombs in five states, and reportedly told an undercover officer he was trying to make a smiley face on the map with the locations he chose.

Does that sound like a terrorist to you? Lucianne, I haven't heard from you in a while -- what do you say?

Are they still there? That's all right -- Horace, stand up for me, because you said you have something to say about this. Is this guy a terrorist?

HORACE: Yeah, he's a terrorist. I think he should be sent to jail and basically locked up and throw away the key.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: OK. Let me go over here to this front row here. Jennifer, stand up for me. What do you have to say about this?

JENNIFER: This reckless individual took his personal views into our personal lives. How would you like if he blew up your mother's hands right before Mother's Day? He used violence as his way of getting his message out. He needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. (APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: Thank you. Whose voice is that? Is that Michael?

SMERCONISH: Yeah that's me. I like her. I agree with what she just had to say.

Hey, you know what smiley face I want to talk about, his smiley face. And I want the system to wipe it right off, because every time I'm watching CNN I'm seeing this big grin on his face as he's being led, thank God, in handcuffs. But he's...

GOLDBERG: But, Michael, we don't know anything about this boy. He may be a schizophrenic. He's of an age where early adult schizophrenia does kick in. We don't know that the smiley face is a symbol of these ecstasy raves he may be into or acid. He may be into some sort of drug thing.

SMERCONISH: Oh, Lucianne, I'm a big fan of yours. Don't start heading in that direction, please. Come on.

GOLDBERG: Well, no, we don't know anything about this boy and already you want to have him in the electric chair.

SMERCONISH: Not yet.

GOLDBERG: I mean this is ridiculous.

HATCHETT: And I agree with you, Lucianne. We've got to really make sure that we take the time for him to be assessed.

NEVILLE: OK. Let me let Jim get in this.

JIM: Yeah, I agree with that gentleman there about the smiley face. What I'd do is get Judge Judy to put him in jail with a cell with somebody about 6'7", then in jail about 10 years and see if he did that little number there.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: OK. Well so it seems like this audience here in the studio, they're not necessarily on Luke Helder's side -- Judge Hatchett?

HATCHETT: And it's not about...

NEVILLE: Excuse me -- hang on, we've got a guy yelling here, Judge Hatchett, pardon me. Go ahead, stand up, Lee.

LEE: Well my point is that the person is obviously a terrorist. He's been making comments and writing things. But in addition to that, he's a confused person.

I was a college professor during my working career, and they're -- in that age they're -- well in any age -- it's obvious the young man has problems. NEVILLE: Judge Hatchett, what do you say?

HATCHETT: Well I would just simply say that we have to remember that regardless of how we feel personally about it, we do have a judicial system which says that he needs to be assessed and tried. And if he is found not to be insane or have some trouble, and should stand trial, then he should face the charges. But we have to be very careful that there is a system in place for which he will face hopefully a just trial.

NEVILLE: And judge, he could face live in prison, is that fair?

HATCHETT: He could. Yes, it is fair, because the laws are very specific. For someone who engages in this kind of conduct, there is very little tolerance in this country. Which is what I think I'm hearing from the audience there in the studio today. That people are very upset by his behavior.

But yet, again, he is entitled to a fair trial. And having said that, he is also entitled to an assessment on whether he is mentally capable of standing trial or whether he is going to be able to stand on an insanity plea.

NEVILLE: OK. I have an e-mail right now I'd like to go ahead and share with the audience, if you could pop that up for me. "This was an act of terrorism and he has admitted guilt. Bring all the charges together in one location and save a lot of taxpayer money, then put him away for life." That's from Eddie.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: Now his dad called the FBI. Is his dad to be commended on this?

HATCHETT: Absolutely -- absolutely. And even though it is his son -- his adoptive son -- I think it speaks volumes of this father who is being responsible. And I really commend him for having called the authorities about his son's behavior.

NEVILLE: OK, I've got Matt on the phone now from California.

Go ahead, Matt.

CALLER: I think that the media is actually turning him into a more dangerous person than he was before, because, by putting his band name out on television, their album's first name, and their title song, along with the letters he wrote to those college newspapers, they are getting his message out there and turning him into some twisted icon for anti-government movements.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Matt.

CALLER: And...

NEVILLE: Go ahead. Go ahead. You have something more to say? Go ahead. CALLER: I just think that we will see more reference to him in the future. And...

NEVILLE: What do you mean by that?

CALLER: Well, I just -- it's my opinion that everyone, like -- you know, those anarchists. They always take someone and use them as an icon, someone that resisted and caused trouble. So, I just think that the media is ending up turning him into a more dangerous person than he was.

NEVILLE: Well, it's interesting you say that, because my producer, Jody (ph), and I, we did talk about that this morning, when we were going over this story, wondering where we are kind of playing into his hands by -- he wanted attention. And here we are talking about him.

Eric from Pennsylvania, what do you say?

ERIC: One of the other audience members say that he's a confused kid. And I don't necessarily think I agree with that. I think that maybe he made a bad decision. But he did make the decision to potentially -- he did harm people. And he needs to pay the price for that.

NEVILLE: OK. Thank you, Eric.

I have another e-mail coming in on this subject I would like to share with you from Sandy in Pennsylvania: "If he was an Islamic youth, no one would be calling him misguided."

GOLDBERG: Absolutely. Absolutely.

(APPLAUSE)

GOLDBERG: Absolutely.

HATCHETT: Interesting comment. That's probably right.

NEVILLE: Lucianne, you're...

GOLDBERG: I'm not quite sure where that's coming from.

HATCHETT: I am.

GOLDBERG: But would I like to go back to the smiley face thing.

There's something there that we are not, that we are not getting. First of all, if that was the idea, we didn't really get a smiley face, did we? I'm not seeing it on the map that you are showing.

NEVILLE: Right.

GOLDBERG: There's just -- And I just bring that up because...

NEVILLE: Well, if you can see the monitor, Lucianne, you can see the eyes in Nebraska, two eyes in Nebraska, Iowa. Then he's starting the smiley face in Colorado and Texas and I guess going on over.

GOLDBERG: To me, I don't know. It's pushing it. And it's a Rorschach test that I have flunked, because I see two bunny rabbits and an Easter egg.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: But, no, the media jumps on these things.

We are kind of -- people are getting bored with the current stories, so they jump on a nice blonde young man who clearly is a whack job of some kind, who has done terrible damage. One of these women, I know, is almost deaf. Her hands are all hurt.

NEVILLE: Yes, that's true. It's sad.

GOLDBERG: It's terrible.

But the stuff with the smiley face -- and you notice he just paused there, the B-roll that you are running. Clearly, he noticed the camera. Now, this is a kid who nobody has paid attention to. And I think, out of sheer desperation, he's done this wacky thing.

NEVILLE: Right.

GOLDBERG: And let's wait until we find out what his problem is...

NEVILLE: Right.

HATCHETT: I agree with you.

GOLDBERG: ... before we go saying he's terrorist or he ought to be put away forever.

(BELL RINGING)

NEVILLE: There's the bell. We've got to switch gears.

And when we come back, why is Maryland holding off on executing death row inmates? And we're going to tell you why in a moment. So, don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: OK. Thanks for being with us here at TALKBACK LIVE for "Free-For-All Friday."

The topic now: a move by Maryland's governor to stop executions, at least for a while. He says the state needs to review the fairness factor and take a good look at just who is being sentenced to death. Figures released by the National Coalition to Abolish the death penalty show 28 percent of Maryland's population is black, yet 70 percent of those on death row are black. Most of their victims are white, even though about 80 percent of those killed in Maryland are black. Bev Smith, I'll start with you on this one. Do you think that this governor has a valid concern?

SMITH: Absolutely. My hat is off to Parris Glendening. I used to live in Maryland. And I think he made a very thought-provoking decision to hold up for a moment and let's investigate.

This discussion of who is on death row and what color or ethnicity is the American on death row is not a new one. There are governors looking across the country. And, certainly, the bar association, as Glenda will tell you, of African-American lawyers have come out with this statement, the NAACP coming out with this statement, the Urban League report coming out with this statement.

I think that the governor has done the right thing. And I would hope sincerely that other governors across this country will take his lead and follow suit and hold up for a moment and look at the fairness of what is going on.

And to add to that point, we know -- and the judge will certainly tell -- we know that there are a lot of people on death row that shouldn't be there. So, maybe by this decision with Parris, we can get a look at the cases and review the cases and find out if any of these men on death row are innocent. My hat is off to Maryland's governor. He did the right thing.

NEVILLE: All right, Brent from Illinois.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: One second, Judge. Excuse me.

Brent from Illinois.

BRENT: I think that's absolutely right. I agree 100 percent.

I think the question isn't: Why is Maryland doing it? The question is: Why aren't all the other states doing it? This is the final thing. This is death. This is not life in prison, which is bad enough. This is death. And if we are not looking at every state and are we doing it fairly, why aren't we?

NEVILLE: You are from Illinois, right?

BRENT: Yes.

NEVILLE: And your state is the first to do it. Maryland is the second. Thank you very much.

Adam, stand up for me and tell me what you have to say.

ADAM: Well, I come from Michigan. And my state doesn't have the death penalty. And I just don't understand how the taking of life by the government can be fair, by any standards.

And it's obvious that these standards aren't being fairly applied now. I mean, with the latest statistics that have come out, it's obvious that the population killed by the death penalty of minorities is substantially higher than that of the Caucasian population. And I'm just wondering why, like what Brent said, that we still have the death penalty in the first place in this day and age.

NEVILLE: Michael, you are shaking your head no.

SMERCONISH: Oh, lord.

Let me bring this conversation back to Earth for just a moment, folks. This is a political payoff to one of the Kennedys who is now running for governor. And she wants this study to come out and say that it's disparate in its treatment.

Arthel, the statistics you put on the screen only tell half the story.

NEVILLE: What's the other half, Michael?

SMERCONISH: You didn't tell us who is committing the crimes. You told us who is being sentenced to death, but you didn't tell us who is committing capital times in this country. And you can't evaluate one without the other.

And I say, tell this all to the family of the grandmother who was murdered during a purse-snatching by a guy named Wesley Baker, who now gets a new lease on life in Maryland because of what this governor did. This is outrageous. Let's start talking about the rights of victims of crimes and not perpetrators of crimes.

HATCHETT: Michael, let me be the first to tell you that I am not soft on crime. I have seen horrendous crimes committed. And I certainly, certainly am in sympathy with people who are victims of such horrible crimes.

But we have got to put this back in perspective. The death penalty in America was reinstated in 1976. There have been roughly 800 people who have been executed during that time. But you also have to look at what is happening. And I agree with Bev wholeheartedly. And I hope that we will study it. We are simply saying that this needs to looked at, because, in America, where 12 percent of the population are African-American people, it is not fair, it seems to me, that more than 40 percent of people who are on death row right now, out of that population, more than 40 percent of those people are African-Americans.

There is a vast disparity in the numbers there. And all we are saying is that this is to be commended for a time out to study it.

SMITH: And we can't lose taking a little time.

As one of your guests in the audience pointed out so well, I would like Michael to come back to Earth for just a moment and quit making these vast political statements. To suggest that Parris Glendening is doing this on a political move is to suggest that he, the governor, doesn't care about people. Perhaps, Michael, perhaps, when you do your homework, you will understand that, not only is this a case of who is on death row, but a case of the disparity in the sentencing, which is even more oppressive.

And every lawyer

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: I'm going to jump in. Excuse me, because that bell is going to ring. I know it is.

(BELL RINGING)

NEVILLE: Told you.

HATCHETT: We need longer on this topic next time, Arthel.

NEVILLE: Yes, sir, Judge. Yes, ma'am, Judge.

HATCHETT: Because we're just scratching the surface on this one.

NEVILLE: Aye-aye, Judge. Yes, you're right. It is definitely a serious situation.

HATCHETT: Very serious.

NEVILLE: Maybe we'll have you come back and we'll talk about that soon. What do you say, Judge Hatchett?

HATCHETT: Look forward to it.

NEVILLE: OK, good.

A decade ago, everybody was talking about Dan Quayle and what he thought of single moms. Wait until you hear what he thinks about Ozzy Osbourne.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: OK.

He was vice president of the United States. She was a character on a popular TV show, a working woman with a baby out of wedlock. Dan Quayle didn't think much of Murphy Brown in those days. He still doesn't approve of that lifestyle. But, get this. He does like heavy metal rocker Ozzy Osbourne and the MTV that is built around his rather unconventional home life.

Go figure.

Michael, what do you make of this?

SMERCONISH: Arthel, there are only two television shows by which I set my watch: TALKBACK LIVE with you...

(LAUGHTER)

SMERCONISH: ... and "The Osbournes." I only missed one this season. It's hysterical. I'm not all hung up about bad messages sent out. The guy is a riot. And that's it.

HATCHETT: Michael, I won't take it personally that you don't set your watch by my court show. But that's OK. We'll talk about that later.

(LAUGHTER)

SMERCONISH: Not after today. Not after today.

HATCHETT: I know. I know. We'll talk later.

But let me tell you, though, I find it amazing that we are even giving press time, that the press even cares what Dan Quayle thinks. For somebody who got all caught up...

GOLDBERG: Oh, au contraire.

HATCHETT: ... in Murphy Brown, who is on TV, a fictional character, where is the concern about teenage mothers and how we reduce teenage pregnancies in this country and how we are going to make sure that children are getting the kind of prenatal care before they get here, real live people who are suffering in this country? Who cares what Dan Quayle thinks about this?

GOLDBERG: Well, I care what Dan Quayle says.

SMITH: I echo the thought. I echo the thought. And I think if you did a poll in America, that's what you would hear.

But, I mean, Michael is a real interesting talk show, Glenda. I don't think you should be concerned that he doesn't set his clock by you.

I think what's interesting is that he views this show as if this show is some example of a home life. Oh, yes, earlier, he said it should be all intact with a father. I can't even understand Ozzy.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: They're all under one roof. Ozzy is a good father.

SMITH: This is not important to the question of American families. But it may be important to the question of Dan Quayle's sanity, but it's not important to the question of American families.

NEVILLE: Lucianne, what do you say about this?

GOLDBERG: Well, I think, if the Ozzy Osbourne show does anything as far as role modeling is concerned, is it shows kids what happens to you when you do drugs for 20 years. Nobody can understand what you are saying. You are dragging your butt around. It is hilarious show. I thoroughly enjoy it. I think his wife is terrific. The star of the show I think is the house. That's why we look at it, to see what more stuff they can spend money on in that house. No, this is a great example of what drugs do when you do them all that time. And I'm all for it.

NEVILLE: Jim.

HATCHETT: Is Michael saying that this should be the role model for which fathers should follow?

SMERCONISH: I'm not saying that.

GOLDBERG: No, he didn't say that.

SMERCONISH: Lighten up, is what I'm saying. That's all.

HATCHETT: OK, I just wanted to make sure that we're clear.

NEVILLE: OK, Jim, go ahead.

JIM: Well, Dan Quayle is like the Energizer Bunny. He just keeps on going.

(LAUGHTER)

JIM: This is coming from a man who can't spell potato.

(BELL RINGING)

NEVILLE: Thanks, Jim. Thank you.

That's the bell. I got to go.

If you haven't heard already, circle your calendar. Sunday is the day to honor mom, you know, the one who fed you, picked up after you, loved you. And, no matter what, it's your turn to repay her. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.

Monday --- Sunday, excuse, me is Mother's Day.

And, panel, I want to know your best mother story.

I would say you go first, Lucianne.

GOLDBERG: Well, my mother was an extraordinary woman.

But I have to say, the gift she gave me was teaching me how to be a mom, which is the most creative, most rewarding thing a woman will ever do. I don't care if you are a brain surgeon or a judge or a rocket scientist or a radio talk show host, being a mom is the best. And she taught me how to do that.

NEVILLE: OK, Judge Hatchett?

HATCHETT: I will tell you that my mother actually has been spending all week with me in New York, and we've been hanging out and having a fabulous time.

But her real gift to me has been one of a sense of passion for her work. And she was an educator all of her life. And I think that I have really picked up that whole concern for children from her, for which I'm very, very, very grateful.

NEVILLE: OK, Bev?

SMITH: Well, I'd say ditto to what Glenda and the others have said.

But my mother gave me the gift of knowing God. And, with everything else, her introduction to all six of us to God and a passion for the love of God, that is the ultimate gift, the ultimate gift.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

SMITH: I thank her.

NEVILLE: Michael?

HATCHETT: I like that.

SMERCONISH: The night we dropped off my older brother at a teen dance, circled around the block because mom saw kids smoking outside. She went with her curlers in her hair and her bathrobe on, grabbed him by the scruff of his neck and brought him out of the dance.

HATCHETT: Good for her. Good for her.

NEVILLE: Well, thank you.

Happy Mother's Day to you mothers on the panel. Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers in the audience here and at home.

And to my mom, the best mom in the world, Doris Neville (ph) in New Orleans, I love you.

See you guys Monday.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com