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CNN Live Today

Interview With Senator Evan Bayh

Aired May 16, 2002 - 13:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now to the White House, which is squarely over the fence of the day over information passed from the CIA to the President of the United States last summer. At issue here is did the Bush administration do enough to try to head off the horrors of September 11th after finding out some information about possible threats. Our coverage this hour begins with CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace -- Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, the administration saying it did exactly what it could do based on what it called, very general information about threats posed by Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. We did learn during that briefing with Ari Fleischer that this threat information coming in, beginning in May of last year. Concern about bin Laden's al Qaeda network launching an attack against the U.S. or U.S. interests. Concern about the possibility of a hijacking of a US commercial airliner. That information conveyed to President Bush in early August when the president, you'll recall, was at his ranch vacationing in Crawford, Texas.

Fleischer saying, the president wanted from the CIA really kind of an update on all the threat information that existed and that is when he was communicated about all the threats that did exist at that time.

Now at this hour, as our viewers just saw, President Bush on Capitol Hill meeting with Senate Republicans. This was to be an update on the war on terrorism as well as a discussion about domestic issues. You can hear reporters trying to throw questions at Mr. Bush. He did not respond. We can be certain that some Senate Republicans, behind closed doors, will be asking exactly what did this administration knew and why this information was not necessarily communicated to the United States Congress or to the American people.

Fleischer fielding a range of questions from reporters. His response was that the administration did what it could, notifying the Department of Transportation, the Federal Aviation Agency; notifying the airlines. Again, though, saying this administration did not have any specific information about what we all saw take place on September 11th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We had generalized information, we had broad knowledge that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack. Director Tenet has gone to the Hill, and on the record, told members of the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2000, 2001, 2002 that Osama bin Laden wants to attack the United States. Did we have information more specific than that? The answer is, we had that generalized information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now the White House has decided to have Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, who happens also to be up on Capitol Hill talking to lawmakers, a pre-scheduled appearance. She will be coming out here at the White House to talk to reporters on camera -- what we call on the record -- to answer more questions. The administration certainly trying to put to rest this story. But the lingering questions, Leon, continue to be. Was Congress notified, should this administration have done more? Was the president ever notified?

Was there ever any linkage made to what we all know now about that memo by an FBI agent coming out of Phoenix, expressing concern about Middle Eastern students who could be attending flight schools in the United States and could be linked to Osama bin Laden, about the arrest of Zacarias Moussaoui. He was viewed as very suspicious, taking flight classes, as we know, in the United States. Whether this information should have or could have been lumped together.

And again, as we saw in that briefing, the information was out there years ago. The FBI notified about other threats over seas. The possibility of terrorists using a commercial airliner to ram into U.S. buildings, such as the CIA. Leon, we heard Fleischer say the administration's response to that is, it had no specific warning that any terrorist was planning to hijack a commercial airliner and use it in a suicide bombing attack -- Leon.

HARRIS: Kelly Wallace at the White House, thank you very much.

Now we mentioned a certain outcry today on Capitol Hill. Democratic Senator Evan Bayh sits on the Senate's Intelligence Committee, and supports a congressional investigation of September 11th. Senator Bayh joins us this hour from the Hill. We thank you very much for your time, sir.

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Good to be with you.

HARRIS: I'd like to know, first of all, if -- did you have a chance to listen to the press briefing; and I'd like to hear your reaction to it.

BAYH: I heard what you just reported on CNN, Leon, and, you know, the president received a general briefing. Unfortunately, this points out the lack of communication within the FBI and the lack of cooperation too often between the FBI and the CIA. The CIA was briefing the president probably based on foreign intelligence sources. They may not have included the information from Phoenix, which pointed out that some suspicious individuals were involved in flight training, possibly for the purposes of hijacking an airplane. They might not have included the information from Minneapolis that pointed out the suspicious activities of Mr. Moussaoui, and some speculation, by at least one FBI agent there, that he might have been looking to hijack a plane or learn how to fly a plane for purposes of ramming into something like the World Trade Center.

So, all this points out, not for the purposes of pointing fingers or laying blame or, you know, hanging the president out to dry, all of this points out the need for: One, a full investigation to find out what we can do to keep this from happening in the future; and number two, a reorganization of our intelligence system, so that these different groups talk to one another. We can centralize this information and protect the country. That just has not been happening too often in the past.

HARRIS: Well, as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I am curious as to how much you actually knew about all this that's coming to us as something of a revelation. Did you know about these briefings that the president did receive in early August? Did you know that the administration had had this information, and just did not divulge it for the past eight months; or what?

BAYH: Leon, I did not know, and I still do not know, specifically what the president was informed of. I've learned that from Mr. Fleischer, and from news reports. We did not know until just this week about -- or last week -- about the Phoenix document. Or we did not know about, at that time, the reports from Minneapolis.

What this shows was there was a lot of information out there that simply was not coordinated in one single place so that our intelligence officials could make a complete assessment and relay that to the president of the United States. That should be troubling to every American, not for the purpose of laying blame or finding scapegoats, but for the purposes of protecting this country moving forward. I think that's what we need to focus on.

HARRIS: Well, you know, many people are going to say that's pretty much what you Democrats would like to do here, is lay blame here at the foot of President Bush of all this. What exactly do you think any kind of investigation would actually accomplish here?

BAYH: What I think it should accomplish, and don't count me among those who want to point fingers or lay blame, Leon. I think this needs to be focused entirely on going forward. And what the investigation should seek to disclose is what went wrong and why. And most importantly, what can we do to keep it from happening again. That's what really matters.

And we've seen an unfortunate track record here of different intelligence parts of the federal government not talking to one another and not even being very well coordinated within themselves. That has to stop, if we are going to protect this country moving forward and make sure that the tragedy that occurred on September 11th does not happen again. And we can do that, completely independent of political considerations and trying to make the President look bad. That should not be a part of this process. HARRIS: Well, even if these warnings were not actually fully actively delivered to say, members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, we did hear Ari Fleischer say that certain agencies actually were alerted; perhaps the NTSB. They were actually alerted and warned about these sort of things. Isn't it possible that if adequate warnings were put out about possible hijackings -- not necessarily flying planes into buildings. But, if you're thwart the hijackings, you could have thwarted perhaps the flying into buildings, correct?

BAYH: Well, that's right. And as your report pointed out, there is a certain amount of Monday morning quarterbacking and second- guessing going on, which I suppose is only natural. But, you know, at that time, if more aggressive measures had been taken, based upon what we did know, the threat of hijackings -- and if that had been combined with the information from Phoenix and Minneapolis -- perhaps more aggressive steps would have been taken. We'll simply never know whether if followed aggressively, investigations and other preventative steps, would have made a difference.

HARRIS: If there will be hearings, how soon can we expect them to actually start, get under way?

BAYH: Well, that's a good question, Leon, and it's something else you're viewers deserve to know, on a bipartisan basis. Republicans, as well as Democrats, members of the Intelligence Committee have been very disappointed at the lack of cooperation from the FBI, the Justice, the Justice Department. And for people who claim that they have nothing to hide, and may very well have not anything to hide, they are doing a good job of looking and appearing as if they do. They simply have not been forthcoming with the kind of information necessary to have meaningful hearings and to make sure this kind of thing does not happen again. That has to stop.

HARRIS: Senator Evan Bayh, we'll be watching and see what happens here. We sure do thank you for your time this afternoon.

BAYH: My pleasure, Leon.

HARRIS: Take care, good luck.

Well, the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee also is weighing in on the controversy over the 9/11 warnings. Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama says that the White House should have made the information public much sooner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We knew all along that the president got intelligence briefs, probably on a daily basis, because a lot of us on the committee got similar information. But I think that was a warning. By itself, it may not have been that important, but put together with the FBI memo of July 10, the situation that happened August 17, I believe it was, with Zacarias Moussaoui in Minneapolis. You put all that together and you dotted a lot of things -- you closed some circles -- but it didn't happen.

My basic inquiry is not to go headhunting here after somebody's head, but to try to put the information together that will bring more security to the American people. And I think we have to look back to the role the CIA, the FBI, and so forth leading up to the events of September the 11th. Otherwise, we will never learn a lesson. This information as we put it together is going to help us. And I hope it will help the FBI; I hope it will help the CIA do a better job for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And there we now hear bipartisan calls for investigations that will not turn into headhunting, but actually digging up the facts, exactly what happened to prevent anything from happening again.

Now you heard Senator Shelby talk about the timeline of different elements of information that were brought together. Let's check in with our David Ensor, who has been trying to put together a report for us, exactly on the timeline here. What was known and when it was known. David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Leon, the president, of course, this briefing that we've been talking about occurred in the first week in August in Crawford, Texas. And U.S. officials confirmed the president was told, among many other things that al Qaeda might be plotting, was the possibility, of hijacking an aircraft. There was no suggestion at the time that it would be a suicide plane attack. But back in May and June of 2001, the CIA started to warn the White House about the possibility of an al Qaeda attack against the U.S.

At that time they thought it might come on or around July 4th, the national holiday. After July 4th, of last year, the CIA told the Bush administration, officials tell me, that an attack was still likely and in fact they were getting a lot of intelligence suggesting that something was underway. In late July, then, we have the Phoenix FBI memo that we've been talking about, urging the FBI headquarters to investigate Middle Eastern men in U.S. flight schools. The memo also said that Osama bin Laden followers could use training for terror, the training in the flight schools for some kind of terrorism.

Then in early August comes this briefing I just mentioned to the president warning that the bin Laden group may hijack an aircraft among other things. But not suggesting what actually happened. They didn't have any evidence of that. On August 15th, an important day in this development, the Minnesota flight school called to the FBI in Minneapolis, saying, we've got a student named Zacarias Moussaoui who wants to learn to fly 747s, but isn't interested in learning how to land them. We think you might want to look into this.

The FBI was interested. On August 16th, Moussaoui was, in fact, arrested on immigration charges on August 17th, or thereabouts. The Minneapolis FBI office asked FBI Washington for permission to search Moussaoui's laptop computer. That permission was not granted. The Justice Department said they wouldn't go to the special court and get that permission; there wasn't enough evidence. Unfortunate, because on that laptop was some information that might have helped stop 9/11.

And then, of course, on September 11th, came the suicide hijackers' attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Could the president have known, or in any way predicted from what he was given prior to 9/11, that it was going to happen? U.S. officials I speak to say, quite bluntly, no, he could not. They argue that in fact, although it is significant that the president was told the possibility of hijacking was there, they had no idea this kind of thing was going to happen. Hijacking, after all, was a traditional tool of terrorists. And they really -- some of them argue -- that there is frankly too much being made out of all this -- Leon.

HARRIS: And that's the danger of trying to play Monday morning quarterback, as we've been saying for the past few minutes. Dave Ensor, thank you very much.

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