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CNN Live Today

Interview With Linda Pauwels

Aired May 17, 2002 - 14:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back now to our top story today concerning how the government handled terrorist warnings prior to 9/11. It turns out the airlines had reason to believe that some sort of attack -- some sort of hijacking rather -- might be in the works.

The FAA issued five warnings during one seven-week period last summer. Let's talk more about this with Linda Pauwels, a spokeswoman for the Allied Pilots Association and also an airline captain who is live in L.A. Linda, good afternoon to you. Nice to have you with us.

LINDA PAUWELS, ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Hi, Bill. Thank you.

HEMMER: Tell us what was passed along during that period last summer?

PAUWELS: Well, Bill, in a short word, nothing.

HEMMER: Nothing to the airlines, nothing to the pilots, nothing to the flight attendants? And is that standard operating procedure then?

PAUWELS: I can't speak for the airlines whether they received information or not. It appears that the Federal Aviation Administration, from the period of January through August of last year, issued 15 advisories that there was a high probability of hijackings aboard civilian U.S. aircraft.

HEMMER: Linda, back up a little bit. Tell us how the procedure works, then. Because the transportation secretary, Norm Mineta, was quoted saying yesterday that indeed, some sort of warning or alert was passed along to some section of the transportation industry when it comes to aviation. How does that procedure work, do you know?

PAUWELS: Yes, I believe I do. The FAA issues security directives or informational circulars, that recount threats to civil aviation airports, aircraft, et cetera. Those are passed on through the corporate security departments at the individual airlines.

And the corporate security departments make the determination as to who has an operational need to know. And then they continue to pass the information on down.

HEMMER: So then it's the corporate security agencies for each individual airline that has that responsibility. Am I understanding that correctly?

PAUWELS: Yes, I believe you are understanding it correctly.

HEMMER: If that's the case then, and if the warnings and threats were vague, as we've been led to believe so far, they then have to make a judgment call as to what they pass on and what they do not pass on, correct?

PAUWELS: I believe that is correct. But there is another philosophical matter here. The captain is the inflight security coordinator. The captain is charged with having the information necessary in order to conduct a safe flight. We need to have realtime intelligence when it relates to threats that affect our aircraft.

HEMMER: Two questions here. First of all, does it help the airlines if every threat, vague or not, is passed along?

PAUWELS: Well, I think that depends. I don't know how much information should be made available to the public. But definitely it should be made available to the people who operate the aircraft. And who also -- many of them are military and have high level security clearances to begin with.

HEMMER: You mention the public. What impact, I'm wondering, do you sense or think it would have on the flying public if every threat, whether legitimate or not, real or not, was passed along?

PAUWELS: Well, I think that the public has a right to be informed and to make their own determinations. Now, the impact, whether it be economic or whether it be just fear, is something that all of us will have to determine.

I am a firm believer in open government. We need to have more information rather than less, so that we can make some determinations as to what we're going to do and how we're going to proceed.

HEMMER: You sound angry. Are you?

PAUWELS: Well, I'm frustrated. But there is a little bit of light in this. It seems that a lot of the information just went into a black hole for a long time.

Even after September 11th, the incident involving, for example, the shoe bomb incident. The crew was not aware that there had been reports of possible smuggling of weapons, or disassembled weapons in shoes. And those things frustrate captains who operate daily in the airspace of this country.

But it appears that, at least in our airline, they are making some inroads. It's been a little bit like pulling teeth. But our security people at the Airline Pilots Association are working closely to assure that the information is passed along.

HEMMER: Is that a new change in procedure then, and if so going forward, how do you believe that may help avert potential problems in the future, Linda? PAUWELS: I think it's one of the baby steps that we're taking. And yes, procedurally, I believe in the past month things are getting better.

But we need to view this with a mindset of defense. And defense in depth, a military principle, if you will. I think that we really have to look at what pilots do and how they can be the last line of defense in this defense and depth principle. We want to have the possibility to defend the cockpit against lethal intent with firearms.

HEMMER: I can understand your point there. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I know the debate continues on the last point you were making. But, in the little time we have left here, don't you find it easy, as we all rewind the tape of history right now, to throw potshots at this matter?

PAUWELS: Well, it's not a matter of culpability. I think that we really have to be a little bit more analytical about this. Were there warning signs that were not heeded? How do we prevent that from happening in the future? And we would like to be part of the solution. We do not want to be considered part of the problem.

HEMMER: Understood. Linda Pauwels, Airline (sic) Pilots Association in L.A. Thank you, Linda.

PAUWELS: Thank you, Bill.

HEMMER: Also an airline captain out of California.

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