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CNN Live Today
Kitty Dukakis Speaks Out About Shock Therapy
Aired May 21, 2002 - 14:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to talk again about some health news right now. There is a federal task force saying that doctors should ask two simple questions every time you go in for a check-up. The goal: to find and treat people suffering with undiagnosed depression. More now from Dr. Sanjay Gupta, back with us, our medical correspondent. Good afternoon again.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Very important and significant issue.
GUPTA: It really is. It almost makes you wonder after hearing about it that it is actually not done already, that doctors might not just ask a couple of questions about depression right when a patient comes to the office.
Depression is huge problem, causing about $17 billion a year in lost workdays. What they think is that about five to nine percent of people who come in to a doctor's office actually have depression. One in four women, one in ten men, and half of those people, 50 percent, go undetected.
They think they can change that around, as you said, Bill, by asking a couple of questions, and those questions would be, "Have you felt down, depressed or hopeless for at least two weeks?" And "Have you felt interest or pleasure in daily activities for at least two weeks?" as well. Lost interest in those things for a couple of weeks.
Asking those two questions, following up with necessary depression treatment, talk therapy, whatever, if the answer to any of those questions is yes, could possibly cure and stave off depression.
HEMMER: Really? How effective they think they could be, then?
GUPTA: They think it could be tremendously effective, and again it is sort of one of those things that almost seems like a obvious thing in retrospect.
You could just ask these questions. We talked to the American College of Psychiatry about this and they think that it would be a tremendously effective tool, again, at treating depression early which is one of the keys to staving it off.
HEMMER: Interesting. I want you to stick around because we are going to show a story, an interview, in fact, here, and I am going to talk to you about it, OK?
GUPTA: OK.
HEMMER: Here is a woman who has waged a public battle with depression. You remember Kitty Dukakis, wife of the former governor and presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. She is now speaking about again, this time about the treatment that she says has changed her life -- electro-convulsive therapy.
That interview now with Natalie Jacobson of WCVB.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY DUKAKIS, DEPRESSION PATIENT: I had no energy. I had no enthusiasm for the things I usually have enthusiasm for. I had incredibly low self-esteem.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB: And for how long have you had that?
DUKAKIS: The depressions for 20 years.
JACOBSON: So while you were first lady?
DUKAKIS: Oh, yes. Yes. I would go through periods, four-month periods, during that time.
JACOBSON: That had to be very difficult.
DUKAKIS: It was very difficult.
JACOBSON: How did you handle that?
DUKAKIS: Well, I did not handle it very well. I mean, I just -- I withdrew. You know, my administrative assistants would make excuses for me. In my case, the other issue I had is that I drank at the -- oftentimes at the end of the depression. It just -- it just become too much.
JACOBSON: Which came first, Kitty? Have the doctors been able to help you decide that? You were very open in public about the treatment?
DUKAKIS: I'm not sure.
JACOBSON: Did the depression come first or the alcoholism?
DUKAKIS: I took diet pills for such a long time and I think I -- you know, was probably covered the depressions I might have had during that time, so I'm not sure. It is a chicken or egg kind of thing, and I just don't know the answer to that.
JACOBSON: So taking the shock treatment has helped greatly your...
DUKAKIS: Enormously.
JACOBSON: ...your depression. Would you say that it has eradicated it?
DUKAKIS: Well, for some people who have ECT, they need one set -- you know, one, six or eight-time session and they are finished for the rest of their life. That did not happen to me.
You have series of six to eight sessions that -- you are given a shot of -- I guess there is a tranquilizer in it, but it puts to you to sleep. There is a very mild convulsion that takes place.
JACOBSON: Are you aware of it?
DUKAKIS: No. Not at all. No pain. Nothing.
JACOBSON: So you are out at this point.
DUKAKIS: You are out.
The first time I had the treatment, I was very anxious, as you can imagine. It was our anniversary, and I said to Michael, "I don't think we will be able to go out." I just can't imagine going through this and -- I felt fabulous.
JACOBSON: Now, what are the downsides that you had to be aware of?
DUKAKIS: Well, there are short-term memory loss.
JACOBSON: Did you experience that?
DUKAKIS: Yes. I did.
For example, if I was going to a familiar place in the car, I would have to really think hard about how I was going to go there. There are some people, and I am one of them, who have a block of certain events. When I spoke in Florida, both my dad and Michael were in the audience, and I talked about how I had just realized that our trip to Paris last June was a total wipe out.
We were there for five days, and I do not remember anything about it. And I made those remarks and all of a sudden heard from the audience my husband say, "I'll take you back to Paris soon." It was just so perfect!
JACOBSON: Oh!
DUKAKIS: Michael and I, at the end of January, saw "A Beautiful Mind." He tells me that I really enjoyed the movie. I have no memory.
But the trade-off is extraordinary for me. I mean, I would no more want to go back to where I was before, and so I don't remember certain things, and that's fine.
I have been very blessed and fortunate. I have just had a lot of people around me who have been there for me and a husband and kids who have, you know, not given up. JACOBSON: As you haven't.
Kitty, you are wonderful. I wish you well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Natalie Jacobson, WVCB with that interview there. Again, Mrs. Dukakis talked about electro-convulsive therapy to treat her depression. Would doctors result to such treatment? Let us talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta. First, what is it?
GUPTA: Yes, well, you know, it is shock therapy. It is something we do not hear about much nowadays, but basically it is putting electrical impulses right on the brain, very precise locations, causing limited seizures, limited convulsions which psychiatrists have found treats depression. It is only used about one percent of patients or so.
HEMMER: It is an older method, though, right?
GUPTA: It is.
HEMMER: It is older. Why has it not advanced or has it shown effective for some people that it does not need to be advanced?
GUPTA: Right. That is an excellent point because, you know, electro-convulsive therapy, again, is something that is old, and a lot of people think of it as barbaric. In fact it is a good treatment. A lot of psychiatrists use it for patients who do not respond well to medication, patients who cannot take medications because of heart troubles, or patients who just won't take their medications, they are not compliant.
Electro-convulsive therapy might be a very good option for them. It is safe and, equally important, it is effective. It is something that works, still, in treating these depressions.
HEMMER: Interesting. Thanks for stopping by again. A double dose of the Gupta today. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks.
GUPTA: See you soon.
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