Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Soldier-author Discusses New War

Aired May 22, 2002 - 09:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: You know what they say: Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Well, the Bush administration acknowledges the war on terrorism is a new kind of war. But retired Col. David Hackworth claims the U.S. military is making some of the same mistakes in Afghanistan that it did in Vietnam, where Hackworth become a combat legend.

He says in Vietnam soldiers learned to use guerrilla tactics to fight an unconventional enemy, lessons Hackworth says that seem to be lost on the current military leadership. He covers that and his Vietnam experience in a new book called "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts."

And Col. David Hackworth joins us now -- good morning. It's a delight to see you again.

COL. DAVID HACKWORTH, AUTHOR, "STEEL MY SOLDIERS' HEARTS": Reporting for duty.

ZAHN: Reporting for duty. On call.

There are those who believe that we are slowly winning the war on terror. At least you have blown apart the power structure of Osama bin Laden's terrorist network. It's not like the guy can pick up the telephone now and use it if he's still alive. Do you dispute with that analysis or is it the part of the activities in Afghanistan that you don't think we're faring too well.

HACKWORTH: Let's take Afghanistan and break down in two parts: phase one, which was the initial phase, the destruction of the Taliban; the introduction of our Special Forces and our incredible use of air power -- absolutely brilliant. Phase two, the introduction of our conventional forces, has been just shockingly ineffective and costly.

ZAHN: Why?

HACKWORTH: Mainly because they're trying to win the war the same way that Westmoreland tried to win the Vietnam War: with great firepower, with great use of high technology, rather than individual soldiers' skill. We've lost the lessons of Vietnam, and one of the reasons that my wife and I wrote this book was to make sure that those who learned these lessons the hard way will be passed on to their sons, who ironically now are the ones that will be fighting this new war of terrorism for the next 10 to 20, perhaps 30 years. ZAHN: So are you saying it's the training that is deficient or that the mission itself is focusing on too big of a picture here?

HACKWORTH: It is in part the training, but like everything else, there are no bad units, there are only bad leaders. And up at the top we have generals who are not capable, in my view, and many, many of our generals in fighting insurgency war. They are great during Desert Storm. That's where all of our orientation is to fight the conventional hi diddle diddle right up the middle. But what we have to understand is that this is not a conventional war. And the techniques of stealth and surprise in fighting an opponent that's fighting from the shadows -- you never know when he's going to hit.

And the main essential thing you need to know is up here it's your mind-set and it's to stay alert, to stay alive. To use the proper guerrilla techniques that we copied from the guerrilla in Vietnam and we used ourselves very, successfully.

ZAHN: So what are you suggesting U.S. forces should be doing on the ground in Afghanistan that's any different what they are doing? And is it too much of a sanitized war in your judgment?

HACKWORTH: Yes. To understand your enemy, which according to the Operation Anaconda, which was the greatest mess I've seen in a long, time, we didn't understand our enemy. Not to rely on our Afghan allies because our Afghan allies are into the guy that's got the biggest wallet. They don't have a big strong allegiance to anyone. And to make sure that our people are really together and know how to fight this war.

And that's why in my book that it's an anecdotal examination of 300 people who are the lieutenants, the captains, the sergeants and machine gunners. All the people -- it's their voices of what they learned in Vietnam. And the ironical thing is today it's their sons that are going to be carrying this battle to the enemy.

ZAHN: Do you think America is willing to accept the loss of more soldiers' lives to put them in these more dangerous situations you're talking about, when, in fact, you can use air cover in many situations before you go in with these ground...

(CROSSTALK)

HACKWORTH: Well, air cover worked wonderfully in the early phases of the Afghan war, but it doesn't work anymore. Today you need the stiletto, not the sledgehammer. What we really need to see is to go back to lessons of Vietnam to understand how to fight an insurgent.

We didn't win in Vietnam because we fought World War II all over again. So we've got to take the lessons that the Army, unfortunately, has kind of -- and the humiliation of losing in Vietnam. And, by the way, it wasn't the fault of the warriors that fought there on the ground or in the air. It was the fault of the top brass why we lost that war.

And so often those kids came home and they were not welcomed back. They were treated as baby (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So what this book is all about is it's one -- it's to salute those, as my wife calls them, holy men. Two, is to ingrain in all of us the lessons learned from Vietnam.

ZAHN: In closing, though, what you suggesting is putting American soldiers in much more perilous situations that they're in now. You're talking about risking more American lives.

HACKWORTH: Paula, if they are well trained, it's the enemy that will be between a rock and a hard place, not our guys, because our guys will know how to fight. Our Rangers already know how to do it. Their conduct in Anaconda was brilliant. Our Special Forces are just totally brilliant. We need to take those lessons learned from those elite units, Rangers and Special Forces, and integrate it within all of our conventional military units.

ZAHN: The name of the book is "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts." Col. David Hackworth, good of you to join us. Nice to see you again.

HACKWORTH: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com