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CNN Talkback Live

Were FBI Agents in a Position to Stop 9/11?; Should Graphic Photos of the Columbine Killers be Published?

Aired May 27, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN HOST: Hello everyone, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. I want to thank you for spending part of your holiday with us.

We're going to start with a scathing memo written by an FBI whistle-blower, and continue right through the graphic photographs of the Columbine massacre and find out if you think sex between a teacher and her 13-year-old student is anything to be concerned about.

This is your chance to be heard, so give me a call at 1-800-310- 4CNN, or send an e-mail to talkback@cnn.com. So get ready, because here's where we're going today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE (voice-over): Were FBI agents in a position to stop some of the terrorists in the September 11th attacks?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the most astonishing indictment of ineptitude in FBI headquarters.

NEVILLE: An FBI whistle-blower accuses an agency official of thwarting efforts to expose a terrorist plot.

Also, graphic photos of Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold (ph). "The National Inquirer" says they tell a different story about the way the boys died. But do inquiring minds need to see those pictures?

Mets catcher Mike Piazza grins and bears it as he confronts rumors about his sexuality.

MIKE PIAZZA, NEW YORK METS: I am heterosexual and date women and that's it, end of story.

NEVILLE: The real question is, why does anyone care?

And a judge says no harm done after a teacher pleads guilty to a six-month sexual affair with a 13-year-old student.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE: OK, we're going to start with FBI whistle-blower Coleen Rowley. She's an attorney in the FBI's Minneapolis office and she wrote a terse 13-page memo to Director Robert Mueller. The memo is printed in this week's "TIME" magazine, and we're going to find out more from CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena.

And, Kelli, first up, if you could, tell us a little bit more about Coleen Rowley.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well she is a special agent in Minneapolis. She has 21 years experience with the FBI as an agent. And she did send a letter, which she qualifies as saying that she's been watching the press account, she's been watching FBI Director Mueller and his testimony and in public statements, and she felt he was not being truthful -- not her words, I'm characterizing here -- being truthful with the facts.

I mean, she contends that FBI headquarters had vital information that should have suggested that something may have been up involving terrorism in airplanes and that they had very specific information regarding Zacarias Moussaoui. As you know, some investigators believe that he was supposed to be the 20th hijacker. But there was information on him from French intelligence and from FBI intelligence that should have allowed FBI headquarters to move more aggressively to investigate the allegations.

And she said they simply did not. And not only did they not move, but she contends that they thwarted the investigation by not granting or pursuing the ability to go into his computer, to question him further. So she wanted in on the record and says, hey, here's what I think. And, by the way, I want whistle-blower status to protect myself.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

ARENA: I've got five kids and I'm a sole breadwinner here. So here's the facts and let's deal with them, but protect me as well.

NEVILLE: And Kelli, I read that all of Ms. Rowley's coworkers certainly refer to her as hardworking, a very honest woman who's very dedicated, and that you can kind of put your money and bank on anything or pretty much everything she says.

ARENA: I have heard the same, Arthel. I have been told -- and she admits it in her letter as well that she is somewhat opinionated, very blunt, doesn't pull punches. But that she is considered credible and well respected. That she's had a very good career.

NEVILLE: Right.

ARENA: That this isn't somebody who has raised any questions at all. And she also has not been labeled a troublemaker or someone who gratuitously seeks attention for any reason.

NEVILLE: Right. In fact, she hid from reporters when they came to her doorstep outside of Minneapolis when they approached her about this story. You know, Kelli, before you and I go on, I want to read an excerpt from Ms. Rowley's memo. It's a little bit lengthy, so everybody pay attention and bear with me here.

It said, "The fact is that key FBIHQ personnel whose job it was to assist and coordinate with field division agents on terrorism investigations and the obtaining and use of FISA searches (and who theoretically were privy to many more sources of intelligence information than field division agents), continued to, almost inexplicably, throw up roadblocks and undermine Minneapolis' by-now desperate efforts to obtain a FISA search warrant long after the French intelligence service provided its information and probable cause became clear.

HQ personnel brought up almost ridiculous questions in their apparent efforts to undermine the probable cause. In all of their conversations and correspondence, HQ personnel never disclosed to the Minneapolis agents that the Phoenix Division had only approximately three weeks earlier warned about al Qaeda operatives in flight schools seeking flight training for terrorist purposes.

Those are strong words.

ARENA: They are strong words. By the way, so that our audience knows, a FISA request...

NEVILLE: It's FISA.

ARENA: ... basically -- what she is talking about was a request to search Mr. Moussaoui's computers. And, as we know, post 9/11, that there was some information there suggesting the use of crop-dusters as weapons and other vital information and phone numbers and so on that prosecutors say connect him to the al Qaeda terrorist organization.

That was something that had been denied, and Ms. Rowley contends in her very long letter it was because the people at headquarters changed some of the information in that request. One of the things that she adds is that they did not add further intelligence that they were supposed to add in that request and that they had changed some of the wording that the Minneapolis agents had used in trying to obtain that permission to go into those computers and to search the premises some more.

So, she said there was -- we don't know why -- she never says why they did it, but she does say that there was a concerted effort to stymie the investigation. I mean, those are fighting words there.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

ARENA: This isn't you ignored it, this is you actively worked against it.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

ARENA: Now I do have to say here, though, and I do that it is important to provide some context. The bottom line here is that she is alleging that if the FBI had pursued this more aggressively, that they might have been able to -- and she says that this is her opinion -- that they may have been able to limit the extent of the September 11th attacks.

Now we need to point out for audience that none of the 19 hijackers was in flight school at that time. So even the canvassing of flight schools at that time would not have resulted in uncovering any of the 19 that were on those airplanes that jammed into buildings and that, you know, terrorized this country.

So that needs to be put in some perspective. And, as you know, the FBI director has said that even given this information -- and it is not only this information, but it's the information from a Phoenix agent as well, saying, hey, I've got some weird stuff going on here. I'm investigating some Middle Eastern men that are all showing up at (UNINTELLIGIBLE) flight school, and I think that perhaps an organization like Osama bin Laden's may be funding these guys and sending them to flight school for some terrorist activity.

So there were two pieces of information that came in to headquarters that no one was able to to join together.

NEVILLE: To put two and two together and get four.

ARENA: That's right. We don't know, though, if the same people within headquarters saw both of those memos.

NEVILLE: But see that part of the problem that we're finding out here, that there are different people and there is not some sort of central communication system there...

ARENA: Exactly. I mean we do know they both went to the radical fundamentalist unit, which is -- there's an Osama bin Laden unit and then there's a radical fundamentalist unit that both deal with terrorism.

NEVILLE: Right.

ARENA: Both pieces of information, the Phoenix piece of information and the information on Zacarias Moussaoui, were both sent to that radical unit; the one that dealt with Islamic extremists. Whether or not the same people within that unit saw both pieces of information is still unclear. And that is something that Congress is trying to get to the bottom of.

And we know that Director Mueller has said that obviously this proves that the FBI does not have the analytical capability or didn't have the analytical capability to deal with this because they were more a crime-fighting organization than they were an intelligence- gathering organization. And so he contends that changes that he's going to make should deal with that problem.

But we also know that Coleen Rowley contests the changes that he's proposed so far as well. She said centralizing this in headquarters isn't the answer either.

NEVILLE: Ms. Rowley's words will be looked over and over and over for weeks to come.

ARENA: Oh I am sure. This -- have you read this, Arthel?

NEVILLE: Oh, I have. I have.

ARENA: It's unbelievable.

NEVILLE: It is unbelievable. Kelli Arena, thank you so much for your report today.

ARENA: You're welcome.

NEVILLE: OK.

And with us now are Gloria Allred, a Los Angeles attorney and radio talk show host on KABC; Jack Burkman, a Republican consultant and lobbyist who handles banking and entertainment issues; and Bob Tanenbaum, a former New York City assistant district attorney and former chief of that city's homicide bureau. And I want to welcome all of you to the show today.

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Thank you, Arthel.

JACK BURKMAN, ATTORNEY: Arthel, good afternoon.

NEVILLE: Good.

Gloria, I want to start with you. OK, Coleen Rowley's memo was picked up and published in his week's "TIME" magazine, right? And earlier today -- before I get to you, Gloria, I want to show everybody, though, what "TIME" magazine's Michael Elliot (ph) had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL ELLIOT (ph) "TIME": I mean, here you have these agents in Minneapolis kind of jumping up and down, you know, waving paper in the air saying, we've got this guy. We're really convinced that he's someone that we should take very, very seriously. And in headquarters you have not just delay and stonewalling, but people positively pouring cold water on what the Minneapolis office are suggesting...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: OK, Gloria, the FBI said if only they had some warnings before September 11th. Now we're seeing that they did have warnings but ignored them or didn't put two and two together. Does this smell like failure to you?

ALLRED: Yeah, it's a real problem, because Ms. Rowley also points out that FBI agents were reprimanded when they tried to contact the CIA about Moussaoui. And that even on the day of September 11th on the attacks they weren't allowed to question him. So there are significant problems.

I really commend her for her courage in bringing these issues forward to the director. She's taken a big risk. She's challenging her boss, and that's why she's seeking protection as a whistle-blower, and I think she should get it.

NEVILLE: But (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Gloria, is she going to get that protection? And, really, what does that mean?

ALLRED: Well I think it means that she cannot be retaliated against. I think she will get it. And it means that she should not suffer any job repercussions, like failure to be promoted or demotion on account of her speaking out about the issues that she's addressing.

And why is she doing it anyway? She said clearly in her letter that these are issues of integrity, that she thinks it's important that the FBI director not engage in any mischaracterization for improper political motives or to avoid institutional embarrassment. Those are important issues.

BURKMAN: Listening to all of this, I really think this story is a joke. Sure, the FBI could do better work. Sure, the CIA could do better work. But all of our friends on the left, who suddenly this summer had this zeal for investigations that they didn't have two or three years ago, I would remind everyone that now the Democrats have this, and liberals all over the country want to get into investigations because you have a Republican president.

NEVILLE: Yeah, but Jack, this is not about politics. This is about the people. And if, in fact, this information was there in those offices, in fact they should have poured over it, had some sort of central intelligence there.

BURKMAN: Arthel, this is 100 percent about politics. Let me tell you something...

NEVILLE: Well it's a shame if it's about politics.

(CROSS TALK)

BURKMAN: But it is, Arthel. It's reality. Look, our friend Gloria Allred has her script written either way. Let's assume -- go back to last July or August...

ALLRED: Well I'm here. I think I can respond to that. That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

(CROSS TALK)

NEVILLE: Hang on, guys. One at a time. One at a time.

ALLRED: Democrats don't care about (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

NEVILLE: Hang on. Everybody, take a pause for a second, OK? These are important statements that everybody is going to make here, and if you would please one at a time -- Jack, go ahead and continue.

BURKMAN: All right. Thank you.

Let's assume last July or August that the administration had done what Gloria Allred and all the liberals wanted them to do, which is to maybe act more aggressively on these threats, what would have happened? Ashcroft would have started rounding up Arabs, there would have been detainees, there would have been all of this aggressive judicial action, which I now think is appropriate and most people think is appropriate in the wake of 9/11.

But the point is this, had the administration done in July or August what they're doing in November or December, then you'd have Gloria Allred or Alan Dershowitz (ph) all over television calling Ashcroft a Nazi. Saying this guy should never be doing this.

ALLRED: Here's what's wrong with that. It's a phony issue to try to cover for the administration and the FBI, because as Ms. Rowley points out, they had specific details in their request for a search warrant obtained from French intelligence sources about the connection of Moussaoui to al Qaeda and to other terrorists. And, therefore, they had a reason to believe he was a specific terrorist threat. It had nothing to do with racial profiling or anything else. I and many other lawyers, liberals or conservatives, would have thought there was sufficient probable cause to get a search warrant.

BURKMAN: Gloria...

NEVILLE: And, you know what, hang on. I have an attorney in the audience here. Neil (ph) stand up for me, if you would, and tell me how you see this.

NEIL (ph): Well, you know, what happened here is that the FBI agent sent the report to the supervisors and they deleted part of it. And had they not done that, there would have been a search warrant. And I'm a Republican myself, and I think that they made a mistake here and they're trying to cover up, in my opinion.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much. Bob, I haven't heard from you on this issue. Bob, I want to get you in on this conversation. Go ahead for me.

ROBERT TANENBAUM, FMR. NYC HOMICIDE BUR. CHIEF: Well, first let's back up to remove the total political aspect of that.

NEVILLE: Thank you.

TANENBAUM: The last eight years, the administration which was Democratic, emboldened the enemy by really not responding aggressively. That started with World Trade Center bombing in 93 and up through the embassy bombings and the Cole and so on.

And the enemy was emboldened. We know that from bin Laden's own statement about the lack of response from America and so on. With respect to what Agent Rowley has done, she has done the right thing. She went to her boss. This is person who all her life wanted to be a special agent. She has been in the field. She is the chief lawyer in Minneapolis. This is not someone who simply has been a careerist sitting in Washington trying to somehow become an assistant director and have a cushion job at Hoover Center.

ALLRED: But Bob, it is not true that the Clinton Administration did nothing. Clinton launched a cruise missile into the Afghanistan training camp of Osama bin Laden.

TANENBAUM: Permit just to finish, please. I'll never interrupt you as you well know. And what I am simply saying is that it is insufficient for the director to say, we have an intelligence gathering issue, we have a analyst type issue. In order to fight crime, you have to be able to do a lot of different things. You have to painstakingly gather evidence, analyze it, and then make decisions with respect to whether or not you will go forward.

NEVILLE: And the question is, who should gather this information and who should analyze it. Guys, I have to take a break right now. I have Mike on the phone in Florida, who wants to talk about this. I have Dina in the audience and I have a lot more to talk about with you guys. This is exciting. Don't go anywhere. This is a lot of stuff happening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: We're talking about the memo from Colleen Rowley written to FBI Director Robert Mueller. Dina, from Pennsylvania, you have what to say?

DINA: I don't think we should be pointing fingers at the FBI. I think we need to analyze the information. But we have not enough information to say that even if all this was true, that the attacks wouldn't have happened, who is to say we weren't able to prevent a lot worse happening on September 11. We don't know.

NEVILLE: Also we can't disregard other attacks that are being thwarted by the FBI and CIA that we don't even know about.

DINA: Coming from Pennsylvania, you know, I gave a governor to head something down in Washington, we're moving forward. I think if we use the information to be better moving forward, that's what we all should be thinking about instead of pointing fingers or talking about politics.

BURKMAN: I agree entirely. The problem though, is our friends on the left want to make this about politics.

NEVILLE: And you don't, Jack?

BURKMAN: No. Anyone interested in the genuine investigation, if guys like Lieberman and the other Senate Democrats wanted a real investigation they wouldn't be focused on Mueller, they wouldn't be focused on the last seven months. You have to remember, George Bush was only in office seven months when this happened. Mueller was only in office three months. Most of the national security people weren't even confirmed. I will throw down the gauntlet to our friends on the left...

NEVILLE: I have Mike on the line from Florida who wants to jump in.

CALLER: Yes, Ms. Neville, I thought you might like the perspective of a recently retired agent. I retired out of New York 14 months ago. I was a pilot my last five years, but worked all kinds of things in the Brooklyn Queens office. And I just wanted to let you folks know that what Ms. Crowley takes an extraordinary amount of courage. I wish I had the courage do the same thing when I was an agent.

I think the whistleblowwer statute will only apply as far as her relationship with the bosses. I cannot believe there is an agent, a street agent, a real agent anywhere in this country that is not supporting her a hundred percent. Whether if she could have prevented -- whether the information would have prevented what happened, I don't know. But I can tell you, that the street agents all over this country consider the headquarters people to be an impediment, and not a help in get things done.

I will close with one other thing. There is a saying in the bureau, I heard it when I first came in from an old fugitive guy years ago. I understand how the guy got to be a supervisor, I just don't understand how he got to be an agent.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLRED: It is really important...

NEVILLE: Mike, stand by. After Gloria speaks I want to ask you something. Go ahead, Gloria.

ALLRED: I think what he said, that former agent, was very important. Ms. Rowley points out in her letter that in fact what has happened is that there are failures within the FBI and in fact, that there was no inquiry even launched by the FBI about those failures. And one of the supervisors, who may have made a very serious mistake in all this, has, in fact, been promoted. I think it is time, Arthel, for an independent commission. I'm glad the Democrats called for that. Some Republicans have also called for that. We had an independent commission investigate after Pearl Harbor, we had it after President Kennedy's assassination. We need an independent commission now to investigate what went wrong.

BURKMAN: Why focus just on this? The AP is reporting this morning that the Clinton Administration as far back as 1998, the national security council, AP is reporting that they had information that bin Laden would fly airplanes into buildings. Nobody wants to talk about that.

ALLRED: It's not true that nobody wants to talk about that. I say an independent commission can investigate what President Bush knew, when he knew it, what he did, what he failed to do and also what President Clinton did or failed to do. We need to know the truth. We need to get the information out to the American people so we can have more protection in the future.

TANENBAUM: One more thing, we should put into context what Agent Rowley is saying. And we cant just brush it aside by simply saying it wouldn't have stopped 9/11. We don't know that. But what she is saying is simply, is that as a person totally dedicated to the service of law enforcement that the FBI stands for two things: Integrity and competence.

What she is seeing is a breakdown of both. And that is what she is complaining about, and she is doing it within channels. She went to her boss. She is concerned that her boss is breaking down on integrity grounds and is acting incompetently in trying to sweep under the rug some very, very important investigative gaps that took place.

NEVILLE: Absolutely. The question becomes, and Mike in Florida, if you are still there, what do you think we should do to move on and fix this?

CALLER: I won't try to address this from a political point of view because you have three attorneys up there and that is enough to ruin almost any situation anyway, but what you have to change is the mentality of the boss (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in relationship in the bureau. When I came on when Webster first (AUDIO GAP) and what you have is sort of an elitist system, where once a person goes up the channels, leaves the ranks of the street agent and becomes a boss, the thing sort of the situation where, I don't have time to listen to the street agent. We are the great big bastion of wisdom here at headquarters and I don't want to listen.

NEVILLE: I am going to jump in there Mike, and just kind of speed it up a little bit. And that is I think you are saying there is kind of a hierarchy thing that is happening there and that should not happen. By the way, Mike, you can't pick on my guests. I can, you can't. All right?

BURKMAN: We're tough. We can take it. But let me tell you, nobody likes politics, and these type of investigations, when they take on a political dimension, can be distasteful. I understand that. But whether we like it or not, politics is here. All of this is going to be investigated in Washington in the U.S. Senate in a very political context.

What I'm saying is Gloria and I and Robert might have some broad agreement about the need to investigate not just this administration, but the one in the Clinton Administration and maybe even before that. But my point today is I don't think the Senate Democrats have that in mind. I think that the investigations that are coming up this summer have one focus and that's the first seven months of the Bush Administration. And my point today is, that's a shame.

NEVILLE: Okay, Jeff from Georgia is going to make his point now.

JEFF: You know, I have to believe that this is all a political situation because we look back and between this "TIME" Magazine article and Cynthia McKiny's (ph) statements, everything is becoming 20/20 hind-sight after 9/11. I think what we need to do is learn from, yes, there were mistakes made, but we need to learn from them and go forward, not go back.

NEVILLE: Let me get one more audience comment in here. Excuse me, Thomas.

THOMAS: I think a lot of history shows us that a lot of the things we know now, we wouldn't have known. Then what happens is, it's like Pearl Harbor. There were a lot of reports that said that things were passed around and statements made and letters written. In actuality, they saw planes flying, but no one said anything. All of a sudden now, hind-sight says, hey, guess what, we could have stopped Pearl Harbor. I think it is the same thing with 9/11. A lot of times you get the information but you don't know for sure.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much. We have to move on. We have to switch subjects. Thank you very much to my audience here in the studio and everyone at home who participated in this as well. Here is a question; do inquiring minds really need to see the bloody aftermath of the Columbine killings? Find out why a tabloid is printing the death photos if Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Is it something you want it see? Let me know. We will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. It is hard to forget the massacre at Columbine High School. This issue of the "National Inquirer" shows graphic crime scene photos of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the two gunmen who went on a shooting rampage at the Colorado high school. The two are shown lying in pools of blood side by side, the tabloid says. The pictures present another view of how the two boys died. An article suggests that inside of committing suicide, Klebold could have been shot by Harris. We decided not to show the photos today.

The question, though, and Bob, I want to start with you on this, was it a good idea to publish these pictures and why or why not?

TANENBAUM: Subjectively we may think that we have our own opinions with respect to what we consider to be over the line, somewhat titillating, somewhat salacious, somewhat nonnews worthy and in bad judgment. I think also that we have to keep, and this is an overriding consideration, we have to keep the marketplace open and free.

Two censors that should exist in our marketplace should be the publishers themselves, the editors to determine what they think is appropriate, based on good judgment and what the consumers are going to buy in the open and free marketplace. If these are offensive and people don't want them, they shouldn't buy them. This is what we get from tabloids, but it is part of the open and free process of our society.

NEVILLE: So in a nutshell, it is OK in your opinion that they publish these photos?

TANNENBAUM: As far as the nature of our open and free Democratic society, absolutely.

BURKMAN: We may have a rare three-way agreement here. Arthel. I think more importantly than that, the public has a right to know. They need to know what children are capable of and need to see the reality. The reason is the public is going to be involved in these solutions. The public votes for elected officials who will make decisions on gun, gun control, whether that's good or bad, they will make decisions about whether you need more cops in the streets, about whether minors should be put to death, the death penalty. All of these issues the public will play a role in. It is the media's job to inform the public. I feel strongly that the immediate has a moral and legal right to show these pictures.

NEVILLE: Jack, what do you think the about the idea that this these photos, and perhaps the article shed new light on the investigation?

BURKMAN: That is something really for a forensic expert, someone who studied that, studied the investigation at the crime scene a little more than I did. I think to the extent they do that, it is great. But my point, even if they don't do that, the public still needs to see and be reminded of just how gruesome this is.

NEVILLE: Gloria?

ALLRED: Arthell, there is an issue here of whether there was a double suicide or whether there was a murder-suicide. That is, whether Harris killed Klebold or exactly what happened or whether they killed themselves and what the "National Inquirer" is suggesting, is that if there is doubt about how this went down, if it is not according to the way the investigative reports say that it occurred, if it is not a double suicide, then it might cast doubt on their entire investigative report. That is why I think the families of the victims, many of them, may be interested in the results.

NEVILLE: Let's see what Jason thinks.

JASON: I think it boils down to a business decision from the "National Inquirer" and the owners of that company. The fact that we are debating this on National TV really just sells magazines for them and this is really what they are looking for.

BURKMAN: But there is nothing wrong with selling magazines. I will tell you this, truth is always good. There is nothing wrong with confronting people with the truth however gruesome it is. It is -- people have to understand, and I go back to, we have argued the death penalty on this program many times whether it should apply it minors, this, that and the other -- if people seek people the public will be more informed if they see these kinds of photos.

NEVILLE: Let's get Sharina (ph) to speak out on this.

SHARINA: I think you need to close it because the families need closure themselves. They had to deal with this when it happened and the people are going through it. It it doesn't matter whose side you are on or who you agree with. The point is that they need their privacy. If you were going through a tough time you wouldn't want the newspapers all in your face, so why should they be in theirs?

NEVILLE: Thank you. How old are you, Sharina?

SHARINA: Seventeen.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much. I have a guy across the room here. So Bob, I am going to get to you talk for me for a minute as well, because the "Inquirer" in addition to publishing the photos to sell magazines, there is the question also of whether or not this would prevent copy cats from following this sort of heinous crime and showing these pictures saying that this is how you will end up.

TANNENBAUM: Absolutely. The brutal nature of what we see graphically displayed put into context. I think context is very important by the way. It is not just the search for the truth but when you put this into context as you are suggesting, people look at this and say, my god, that is the end result of the madness that occurred and the type of terror inflicted by some very sick people upon some nonassuming innocent school mates and teachers in a community, so that perhaps we should be a little more watchful about some erratic behavior and hopefully those who may be contemplating this will realize how they are going to wind up.

NEVILLE: Let me get Mark from New York to speak up.

MARK: The only reason this is really an issue is because it is in the "National Inquirer" that is printing this. Sunday I was reading the "New York Times." They were showing pictures of people jumping out of the World Trade Center. No one said, why are we doing that? Flashbacks, make people life through that again. It is only because it is the "National Inquirer." This wouldn't be an issue if it was the "New York Times" running these pictures at all.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Mark. We have to take a break now. But we have a lot more on TALKBACK LIVE after this. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Well, well, well, welcome back everybody. You know these people in the studio audience they want it get to some barbecues, get some grilling, so I am going to let you all go. This is it for the show today. We are out of time. We had a lot of stories we couldn't get to. We will try again tomorrow. Of course I want to thank Gloria Allred, Jack Burkman and Bob Tannenbam for joining us this Memorial Day and taking it on the chin. Thanks, guys. I want to thank you for watching as well. I am Arthel Neville. Judy Woodruff is at the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial and she is up next with a look ahead at INSIDE POLITICS. See you tomorrow.

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