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CNN Live Today

Interview with Mental Health Expert Virginia Stern

Aired May 30, 2002 - 12:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of emotions at the ceremony this morning and lingering sadness and also respect and gratitude towards the workers. And even some anger.

Joining us now, someone who has been at the site since the very beginning. She is Virginia Stern, a mental health expert who worked with the Red Cross -- good to see you, Virginia.

VIRGINIA STERN, MENTAL HEALTH EXPERT: Thank you. It's good to be here.

LIN: I was reading a little bit of your story. You have actually been at ground zero since September 12, up until even just a month ago. What has your life been like for the last eight months?

STERN: My life has been very full, as you can imagine. But it has been a great privilege to be able to have the time to volunteer at ground zero with the rescue workers, with the construction workers and the firefighters and the police.

LIN: And you have been helping them, Virginia, really deal with the loss, as well as the stress of working to clear that site.

STERN: Red Cross Mental Health has been working at ground zero to help the rescue workers get through their days. Their work has been very grim. They have been extremely dedicated and courageous. They have been doing work for all of us in this country, and we have simply played a supporting role, helping them to do their work, to understand how appreciated they are and how valuable their work is.

LIN: Virginia, do you think at the beginning of a crisis it is actually easier for a lot of these rescue workers to focus on the task at hand and not their own emotions at the time?

STERN: Certainly at the beginning of any disaster emotions are running high, adrenaline is running, and people's focus is extremely intense. I will say, however, here in New York, at ground zero, that intensity and that focus and that complete dedication has really been present throughout all these months that the work has been going on.

LIN: What's it like for you to be standing there right now with all that empty space behind you and so many memories?

STERN: Well, I think for many of us, we look at the site, and partly I still see what it looked like on September 12. But I do see how cleaned up it has become, how much has been cleared away, and what it makes me think of is the real courage and bravery and dedication of all the men and women who worked at ground zero, all of the rescue workers here.

LIN: How are they handling it? How are they dealing with this today?

STERN: For many of them this is their first time to begin to say good-bye to an arena where there has been a very special community of dedication and unique work, which was really like a mission where people felt they were working for everybody who lost a loved one and for the country, just to help heal the wounds. That good-bye will just begin today for many of them.

LIN: Do you think that you went through your own period of mourning and your own sense of shock over what happened?

STERN: I think everybody in New York, particularly, has been through mourning and may still be in mourning.

LIN: But what about you, Virginia? I'm just wondering because you are dealing with it as a professional, but you've been there this entire time.

STERN: I have been here, and I have to say as a professional, it's actually very healing to be able to do something that you feel is useful. But certainly, over time, I have had to do my own healing and my own thinking about how I feel about this, which is what everybody does after a disaster.

LIN: If you were to take one thing away from this experience, Virginia, what is it going to be?

STERN: I think the one thing would be in the face of a horrific -- of a horrific disaster, it would be the resilience of the human spirit. I have seen it in families who lost loved ones. I have certainly seen it in all of the rescue workers down here at ground zero. And I have seen it in the thousands and thousands of Red Cross volunteers and other volunteers who have come and who have helped in this effort.

LIN: Virginia Stern, you are amongst the many rescue workers and Red Cross workers that CNN saluted today and throughout the morning. Thank you so much for joining us and for really bringing this experience to life, and all of the work that you have done for the people out there these last eight-and-a-half months.

Well, the loss to the New York City Fire Department on September 11 was absolutely staggering: 343 firefighters died while trying to save others. Five of the firefighters were from Engine 3, Ladder 12 in Chelsea.

And CNN's Jason Carroll is at that firehouse right now -- Jason, what was it like to be there this morning as the ceremony was going on? JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Carol, it was a very intimate setting, as you can imagine. Extremely, extremely emotional to be standing here in a room filled with firefighters, some of the victims' family members, as this ceremony was taking place. A number of people in the room cried when that lone stretcher was brought out of ground zero. And then there was this salute by everyone in the room when that steel girder, that 50-ton steel girder, was brought out of ground zero.

As you say, five people who called this fire station their home were killed on September 11. Very quickly, just to give respect to them, I want to name all of them. Firefighter Steve Belson (ph), Battalion Chief Orial Palmer (ph), Lieutenant Phil Petty (ph), Firefighter Angel Juarbe (ph) and Firefighter Michael Mullan.

Joining me right now, Michael's mother, Theresa, Michael's very good friend of many, many years, Charles Ehni. I'm going to start with you, Theresa. I see there that you are holding a picture there of Michael. While we are looking at that picture, just give me a sense of what did you think of today's ceremony?

THERESA MULLAN, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I think it was absolutely beautiful. It was done with such dignity and respect, and I appreciate so much all of those who made it so. It was beautiful. It was very consoling.

CARROLL: Was it also consoling for you to be here at the fire station with all of Michael's friends, the other victims' family members as well?

MULLAN: Absolutely. We are tied together forever. These were brothers, and as such, become a part of our own family. So it was a very comforting thing to be here today.

CARROLL: Charles, I'm going to move on to you very quickly. I know that a number of the firefighters here were involved with the recovery effort down at ground zero. I know the word "closure" is used oftentimes, sometimes inappropriately. Where are you at this moment, mentally? Where are you at this moment now that the ceremony is over?

CHARLES EHNI, FIREFIGHTER: I think I still have a little way to go for my own closure. I am not a very big fan of the word, because I think some think of it as a happy time. And closure is not always happy, it is just the end.

CARROLL: One thing that I was struck by as I was standing here, being an outsider, being invited in to your fire station, was the sense of closeness and camaraderie that was here. Can you talk to us about that?

MULLAN: Well, as Charlie had mentioned before, they are a brotherhood here, for the best of them and the worst of them, and they coexist and they love each other and they get into squabbles and it is a family. It is just like being home, but this is a bigger family. And there is a lot of love here among them. I think Charlie could say a little bit more than I about that.

CARROLL: Charlie, you agree with that?

EHNI: Absolutely. You always appreciate those who you've lost after they are gone, unfortunately. And Michael and Angel (ph) and Phil (ph) and Chief Palmer (ph) and Steve Belson (ph), they were all such dynamic personalities. You couldn't have removed more people who meant so much to this firehouse than those five. And their spirit lives on, but they are missed greatly.

CARROLL: Theresa, I know it is very important for you to be here with all of these men. Tell us a little bit about Michael. What kind of guy was Michael? What kind of son was he?

MULLAN: Michael was a great son. He was a loving son. He was -- he lived every day of his life. He was full of merriment, full of jokes. He was a registered nurse. He was a captain in the United States Army Reserves. He was attending Hunter (ph) to go on for nurse practitioner.

He loved life. And if there was a silly stupid joke to be heard, Michael was going to tell you it. And not only once, many times.

CARROLL: OK. Theresa Mullan, also Charles Ehni, thank you so very much for joining us. I so very much appreciate it. Very gracious of you to invite us in on this very sensitive day -- thanks again.

Carol, one other thing that I said a little earlier. I want to repeat that just one more time. One thing that I noticed mid-way through the ceremony here, the fire station got a call. Some of the guys got up there, packed up their stuff and headed out. And it really is symbolic of what it is to be a firefighter in New York City. Even during the most difficult of times you just never stop being what it is to be a firefighter -- Carol.

LIN: Yeah, and in the family of firefighters. Thank you so much. Jason Carroll, bringing us that story from Manhattan.

Well even today, the air around lower Manhattan is still being measured for toxins that may have been released on September 11. More than eight months later, possible health effects from 9/11 remain a worrisome mystery. And there are some mental health worries as well.

With more on this, CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta -- Sanjay, I know I've got friends down there who are thinking about how much asbestos they have breathed in and whatever else. And whether they should even stay living down there in lower Manhattan.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, all certainly significant concerns. And the mental health effects, as you mentioned as well, Carol. I was really touched by your interview with Virginia there just a few minutes ago.

But there are some statistics. There's some data that actually comes out of surveys about how the mental health -- what the effects are on the New Yorkers right now. Forty-three percent of them are still experiencing feelings of hopelessness or fear about the future. And certainly compounded, I'm sure, Carol, by the continued alerts. Seventy-six percent -- I'm sorry, New Yorkers are five times more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder. And 76 percent of New Yorkers are willing to seek counseling; however, only a third of them have actually done that.

But speaking to the resilience that you were talking about earlier, 69 percent say they are actually coping pretty well. This was from a survey just about a month and a half ago, Carol. That's sort of a glimpse of the mental health status right now of New Yorkers.

LIN: Well it's only been eight-and-a-half months, so what can these folks expect, long term psychologically?

GUPTA: Right. And I think that's a really important question, and I really have not had something like this to compare to in the past. You know, they've looked at data from Oklahoma City, for example. And certainly, without question, things are going to get better. The post-traumatic stress disorder is going to get better, depression is going to go down. But there probably will be relapses. And not surprisingly, those relapses will probably occur during anniversaries, during other reminders, things like that, of September 11.

But I think everyone I spoke to -- I spoke to a lot of psychologists about this -- agreed that today is a day of closure. And regardless of how people approach that, it is probably a very therapeutic day for many.

LIN: All right.

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