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CNN Talkback Live
Free-for-All Friday
Aired May 31, 2002 - 15:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. We are finally here. Hi to Noni (ph).
All right. I'm Arthel Neville, everybody. You know how it goes. So much to say and a little bit of time today, extra little bit of time, if that makes sense. Anyway, that's never so true as it is on free-for-all Friday. Our talk show hosts are ready to go. And I'm ready to go. I want to you get on board by calling 1-800-310-4CNN or e-mail me talkback@cnn.com.
Here's things we are talking about today. Will the new FBI become America's Big Brother?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who go to places of worship, people who go to libraries, people who are in chat rooms are going to have Big Brother listening in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: Also, church services are planned around it, the World Bank sings it praises, and billions of fans keep score. But can you name this world class event?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look out, look out, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: And rescue on Mount Hood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't believe my eyes. I saw the helicopter just, you know, explode.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then all of a sudden next thing you knew you saw that helicopter rolling down the hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: Risky business. If you take yourself up the mountain, should it be your responsibility to get yourself down?
OK. It's time to meet our talk show hosts. Victoria Jones with the Talk Radio News Service.
VICTORIA JONES, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Hi.
NEVILLE: Hi, Victoria. Dom Giordano, hello to you.
DOM GIORDANO, WPHT TALK SHOW HOST: Hi.
NEVILLE: An education expert and show host on WPHT in Philly. And Nancy Skinner is here as well. She is from WLS Radio in Chicago (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And co-host of the nationally syndicated "Good Day USA" and right here in Atlanta, Royal Marshall, host of the "Royal Treatment" on WSB Radio. Welcome to all of you.
All right. Guys, we are going to begin with the rescue on Mount Hood. It all began when nine members of a climbing party fell into a crevasse on Thursday. Unfortunately, three of them died, unfortunately. And then an Air Force Reserve helicopter crashed during rescue operations, injuring four crew members. And CNN correspondent Frank Buckley is in Oregon covering this story and he's going to join us now with the latest -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Arthel, officials here in the process of winding down the recovery effort. The last of the three bodies of climbers coming down just a short time ago. That body had been left on the mountain overnight. There were personnel nearby, and making sure that the body remained where it was, and also that the helicopter wreckage remained untouched.
That body was finally brought down just a short time ago. The medical examiner's office has now positively identified it. We are expecting to learn within the hour the names of the three deceased climbers who all died. They were part of a group of nine climbers who fell into that crevasse. Apparently, they were broken into groups -- there were three separate groups. Two of the climbers in the first group fell down. They slid into the others, and all nine of those climbers fell down a 30-foot crevasse. And again, three of those climbers died.
On the helicopter crash, remarkably no one lost their lives in that particular helicopter crash. Three helicopter crew members remain hospitalized, however, but the most seriously injured of those is Mark Mills (ph). He's the flight engineer, and he is listed in serious condition -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: Frank, thank you very much for that update.
OK. Here's the question then to my panel -- and Victoria, I want to you answer this first. Is it fair when rescue workers, you know, their lives are endangered because some daredevils get in a jam during one of their stunts. Is it fair?
JONES: Well, yes, it has to be fair. Because if we say that it's not fair for people who climb mountains, then we have to say if you go into a forest and a bear comes up to you, then we are not going to rescue you. And we have to say, OK, can you afford to climb the mountain because if you can't pay for it yourself then we are not going to rescue you. Then it becomes something for the rich. Or else we have to say, OK, you choke on a ham sandwich, you're greedy. You pay for that ambulance. We don't do that in a civilized society.
NEVILLE: Yeah, but what if the signs are posted that say "enter at your own risk." You go in here, the rescue workers aren't coming. Nancy?
NANCY SKINNER, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK HOST: Well, that's just not the way it works. What are we going to tell those folks living in Pakistan and India right now? You know, you really probably shouldn't have moved there...
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: But we are not talking about that right now. Let's keep it right here in the U.S.
SKINNER: But the point is, the risk -- yes, life is risky, and we have priorities. Are we going to let...
NEVILLE: And priorities to put yourself in a situation where you could die?
SKINNER: Well, some people don't have health insurance. Are we going to let them die because they don't have health insurance?
NEVILLE: That's different, Nancy. Nancy, that's different. Absolutely. Go ahead, Royal.
ROYAL MARSHALL, WSB RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Life is risky, but there are certain types of behavior that you can do that will have higher risk and lower risk. And let's face it, these people climb on the mountain. I mean, we feel for them and all that, but I think they should bear some of the costs of the expenses to rescue them after they get stuck on the top of a mountain. I'm sorry, this is not the type of a situation where the American people will just shell out dollars every time somebody gets lost on the top of a mountain. We're sorry for the loss of life, and we're not going to let people sit up there.
But at the same time, there is insurance. There is insurance that you can buy that will protect you from situations where you are driving a car. You can get insurance for that. If you are going to be flying planes, you can get insurance for that.
I think we need to come up with some type of insurance or whatever so they can start footing some of the bills for some of these accidents and some of these tragedies when they get stranded on the mountain.
NEVILLE: Dom?
GIORDANO: Hey, I agree with that. And it's amazing the two liberal panelists are making this a rich-and-poor argument right out of the box. In Europe, there's a French alpine team that comes and rescues you. You have to pay for this through insurance. If you don't want to do that, Victoria, maybe you can't climb to the top of the mountain.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: We have 40,000 people that have climbed this mountain.
JONES: I don't think it's a rich-poor issue.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NEVILLE: OK, there's the bell. We're moving on.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Victoria?
JONES: I'm done, all done.
NEVILLE: Let's move on to the new FBI and whether the bureau's prying eyes will be watching you.
We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody. It's "Free-For-All Friday." And this is when we have all the talk show hosts on there talking.
And, Victoria, by the way, you have a lovely voice. I just don't want to get everybody talking one at a time, because it drives people at home kind of nutty.
All right. Now, from now, when you go to a movie, when you go to church, when you are surfing the Web, there's a chance somebody from the FBI will be right there with you. The new FBI guidelines for preventing terrorism don't sit well with the civil libertarians. But Attorney General John Ashcroft explained it to CNN this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It just says wherever the public is invited, the FBI can go on the same terms as the public. It certainly doesn't allow for a new set of laws or rules or procedures about wiretapping or listening or surveilling electronically. Those kinds of things are the subject of regulation usually done with court supervision.
There are no changes in the law there. We have simply put the FBI on the same footing a number of law enforcement agencies are on.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NEVILLE: OK.
"The Wall Street Journal" says FBI Director Robert Mueller should resign.
And, Dom, I want to start with you and ask you, what do you say?
GIORDANO: I say, praise Jesus -- if I can say that on national TV, because it was bleeped yesterday -- that, yes, absolutely. This guy has been a stunning disgrace. If he were Knute Rockne trying to inspire a team -- he told us a week or so ago, "They are going to hit us again and there's nothing we can do about it." He is a huge part of the problem here.
NEVILLE: OK, Nancy Skinner.
SKINNER: Well, I can't believe I find myself actually agreeing with something John Ashcroft had to say.
But here's a thing: good response, wrong question. The problem, we found out -- the pre-September 11 problems didn't have to do with the fact that they had too many restrictions on them. These guys weren't -- everyone is saying, "Oh, they didn't connect the dots." They were erasing the dots.
NEVILLE: Exactly. You're right.
SKINNER: The same panel had both the Phoenix memo and the Minneapolis memo. And they were purposefully trying to reject those requests. So, the problem goes deeper than this.
And I hope this isn't an effort by the administration to try to shut down an effort to look at what happened, a whole independent commission, because the fact is, August 6, George Bush was fishing when he got this request. And he continued to be on vacation for another month. When he got this serious information, he should have got the head of the CIA, the head of the FBI, and tried to figure out in advance if everybody was talking to each other. And he was fishing.
NEVILLE: Nancy, I'm with you -- Royal.
MARSHALL: First of all, I want to put an end to the blame game.
The president and his staff, they get thousands of tips on a weekly basis. So, how are they supposed to sort out exactly what's what?
Secondly, blaming Robert Mueller is not going to solve the problem with the FBI. Time and time again, the problem has been at the highest-most point in the FBI, but it's been at the middle management, those people who are not, as you said before, not connecting the dots, but in fact erasing the dots. If the dots aren't there by the time they get to Robby Mueller, what is he going to do? So, firing him is not going to solve your problem.
NEVILLE: Then what should they do?
MARSHALL: Well, there's a couple things that they can do.
What they can do is, they can work more intricately with the field agents and filter. They need to work better at processing the information they have, as opposed to gathering information and just letting it sit on the shelf. If they work better at processing the information, then we might be able to prevent terrorism, which, by the way, is a very difficult thing to do.
Even if you know someone has a sinister plan in mind and you know where they are trying to do it, it is still very difficult to prevent it from happening. So, we have got to keep that in mind. And I think we need to give the FBI a collective break, if you pardon my pun.
NEVILLE: Victoria, because it's not as if we are all saying that all FBI agents are bad or incompetent or anything like that. But we are saying there are some problems that need to be addressed, and perhaps that some of the new guidelines aren't really getting to the root of the problem.
JONES: They are cultural problems. They are bureaucratic problems.
Of course, the vast majority of FBI agents are very good, and working extremely hard, and doing a very difficult job, indeed. The problem is, we had an organization that was incompetent before September the 11th, that doesn't work well with local law enforcement, that doesn't work well with the CIA. And so we are rewarding it by now letting it get even more information, which it already cannot process, in order to be able to spot things that it already cannot spot.
We are saying they can go into churches and mosques and synagogues to fish for no reason except to fish. And Ashcroft is saying that's the same as what people do. Well, no, you know, when I go to a house of worship, I go to pray to God. I don't go there to listen to other people's conversations on no basis, no suspicion whatsoever, just because I'm fishing. That's creepy.
NEVILLE: Dom, hold on for me.
I have got Lynn from Colorado who wants to speak out.
LYNN: Yes, I disagree with what Ashcroft is doing with the FBI, because I think that will impede our democracy, which is what we are all here fighting for. And I also think that the terms -- some people think the terms have changed. And I disagree with that, because I think, if the FBI and CIA had done their jobs prior to 9/11, it might have been avoided.
NEVILLE: Dom?
GIORDANO: Well, Lynn, I pretty much agree with you.
I think what is happening here is, we are giving the FBI some -- I don't have any problem, by the way, with the FBI going into mosques and doing the fishing and doing all the rest of it. The simple matter is, though, I think they have to clean up their own house. They have to be able to go back to: Why did the 20th hijacker, Moussaoui, why didn't they get a search warrant to take a look at his computer and possibly avoid some of this?
As Coleen Rowley in her memo said this week, they have to do the elementary things well first. And Mr. Mueller -- be it the blame game or not -- you fire people who are in charge who can't do something about this. He is eminently fire-able at this point.
NEVILLE: Hang on for me, panel.
I have got Helen from Florida first.
HELEN: Well, I agree in what I said before, that, after September 11, that we should be more strict. And the most important thing is the safety of our country. And whatever it takes, we should support the government.
NEVILLE: Nancy, how do you see it?
SKINNER: Ah, that scares the heck out of me to say, "Whatever it takes, we should support the government." This is what we are fighting for: to preserve what is great about this country.
But, having said that, I believe that, if there are problems with the existing regulations, that we should do something about it. I don't have a problem with the FBI being able to provide surveillance on the Internet. That's something we should all be able to do. We can't handicap these guys and then expect them to prevent it. Give them the tools that they need and watch them.
(BELL RINGING)
NEVILLE: OK, there is the bell. That means we have to switch gears.
And up next: A Muslim-American fends off insults and even a death threat over the graduation speech he plans to deliver at Harvard University. I'll tell you what is causing all the fury right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Well, that was some different music, huh? I really like that one.
OK. Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-For-All Friday." I'm Arthel Neville.
What do you think of when you hear the word jihad? The word was enough to open a Harvard University student to jeers, insults and demonstrations. Zayed Yasin, an American-Muslim, was invited to speak at Harvard graduation ceremony. He titled his speech: "A Faith and Citizenship: My American Jihad." He has since removed jihad from the title after it caused an uproar on and off campus.
But Harvard President Lawrence Summers insists people should listen first and then decide if what Yasin has to say is truly offensive. He says, "Especially in a university setting, it is important for people to keep open minds, listen carefully to one another and react to the totality of what each speaker has to say." By the way, Yasin says jihad literally means struggle. But the Arabic term has also been used to mean holy war.
OK, Victoria, I want to start with you.
Do you think a Harvard graduation is the proper place to educate people on the meaning of jihad?
JONES: Sure. Why not? It's the proper place, I think, to speak about almost anything.
I think this is a fascinating example of how we are letting ourselves be afraid of a word, rather than finding out the truth and what it really means. And Harvard, of all places, for crying out loud, you would think that they would want to know.
These students are acting like -- some of the students involved, I'm not saying they're terrorists, but they are acting with the same kind of fear of reality and of truth that we have seen from some of the extremists in the Middle East. And this is scary to me. It's a word. Let's learn what it means. Let's not be so afraid of Islam that we can't even discuss it at a university anymore. They need to learn. They need to grow up and get over themselves.
NEVILLE: Royal is shaking his head no.
MARSHALL: Well, you know, it occurs to me that this student was probably present here for September 11, like millions of other Americans. And he knows how inflammatory the word jihad is. So, at graduation is not the time that people want to sit back and learn all about jihad.
We have computers. We have dictionaries. If we want to learn what jihad means, we can research it on our own time, not on the time when we are supposed to be commensurating our studies and our graduation ceremonies. You have a captive audience there. And he's obviously using this as some type of ploy to get whatever message he wants to get out.
Now he's saying he's taken the name jihad out of this speech. But he put it in there because he knew it would be inflammatory. He knew it would get him some free publicity. He knew it would get him on CNN and everywhere else. And now he's removing it because he's got a few death threats. Well, there is freedom of speech in this country, but that speech does come with its own consequences.
NEVILLE: There is freedom of speech as long as you don't say too much.
MARSHALL: Well, at the same time... (APPLAUSE)
NEVILLE: Before we go on, give me a second here. I must attribute. That line was written by my father, Art Neville, of the Neville Brothers in one of his songs.
MARSHALL: Do you think that's an appropriate speech for Harvard: "My American Jihad"?
NEVILLE: I don't think so. I don't think so.
SKINNER: Who is to decide? Who is to decide what is an appropriate speech? This is mind-blowing hypocrisy here. Let me get this straight: The thought police have now reached the campuses of Harvard University.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Nancy, what do you mean they have reached it? Nancy, it's the capital city of the thought police.
SKINNER: When these students want to suppress political speech because we're in a war on terrorism with some bad guys who suppressed political speech? This is Orwellian logic.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Let Dom get in there.
Go ahead, Dom.
GIORDANO: Yes.
Harvard is one of the capitals of the P.C. cops. I know Victoria. And I know she's the type of liberal that is not about this. But liberals has given this type of nonsense. Now it's coming back on Harvard. Would Harvard allow a kid to put in, his seminar is going to about the N-word and how the N-word is misunderstood?
MARSHALL: Thank you.
GIORDANO: Do you think that would go down? That would not go down at Harvard.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: ... because this is more -- you can use the analogy of how the word "niggardly" had to be removed from speech in Washington D.C. because it wasn't understood and because people thought that it meant the N- word, and it didn't. This is the same thing.
GIORDANO: The kid did it to be inflammatory.
JONES: So what? So what?
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Let him be inflammatory. Are we against being inflammatory?
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Victoria, you know what? I think he did it to be inflammatory, with a very tough shading and meaning here with jihad. And I would have to hear how he's going -- he did it almost 90 percent to be inflammatory.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: OK, guys, I have something really interesting. I have something interesting. We have a man here who says his name is Jihad.
Sir, how do you spell it?
JIHAD: J-I-H-A-D.
NEVILLE: And what does it mean?
JIHAD: It means to make -- for a person, it means one who strives to be the best he can be in life, in religion, religious struggle.
NEVILLE: Are you Muslim?
JIHAD: Yes, I am.
NEVILLE: And is this a chosen name or a given name? Is it on your birth certificate?
JIHAD: Yes, it's chosen name, a chosen name.
NEVILLE: Wow. So your mother gave you this name?
JIHAD: Yes.
NEVILLE: Wow. And what do you think of all of this?
JIHAD: As far as the name itself, I'm going by -- I don't believe in what they are doing. But, as far as my name, I take my name to be very strong and powerful as a person striving to be the best I can be in life.
NEVILLE: But, I mean, the idea of having jihad explained or spoken at a graduation at Harvard, what do you think about that? It's your name, yes. But it normally is an inflammatory word to a lot of people. So, is it OK, in your opinion, to have this included at a speech at Harvard graduation?
JIHAD: I have to agree that you have to -- it's the way you use the name. As far as a person's name, it's my name.
SKINNER: Arthel, he said his speech has nothing to do with the holy war. It's about the similarities between our two cultures. And he condemns the extremists, in fact, in his speech. He's using the word in its other conflicting meanings. Everybody is condemning this speech. Nobody has seen it. That's what he said was the real meaning
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: No one is condemning the speech. We are just condemning the timing of the speech. After September 11...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NEVILLE: All right, there's the bell. We have to take a break for the news, everybody. Or, are we doing the news?
When we come back, we're going to find out if you are glued to the world's No. 1 sporting event. And if you are not, why not?
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: let me ask you a question.
(APPLAUSE)
NEVILLE: OK. Welcome back, everybody.
Most of France is in shock today. People have been moaning, groaning, holding their heads in their hands. Oh, the shock when their world champion soccer team lost to a Johnny-come-lately-crew from Senegal in this year's World Cup finals. French President Jacques Chirac even telephoned the coach and urged the team to overcome the setback and stage a comeback in the next match.
It might come as a surprise to you, but much of the world came to a halt today to watch or listen to that game, everywhere perhaps but in America, where, according to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 72 percent of Americans won't watch any of the matches that hold one billion fans enthralled.
OK, panel, why is it that Americans are not into watching soccer on television?
Whoever wants to go first. Who goes first?
GIORDANO: I'll go first.
NEVILLE: Great.
GIORDANO: It's boring. There's no scoring. And you must have had to go through a lot of footage, Arthel, to find a score. You must have gone through hours.
JONES: You see, this really shows the complete and utter lack of understanding of soccer by Americans.
GIORDANO: Oh, Victoria.
MARSHALL: Oh, come on.
GIORDANO: Oh, come on. Give it a rest, Victoria.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: And it is so sad that you are missing out on something that billions of people around the world know is so exciting.
Soccer is not 6-year-olds kicking a ball around. Soccer is a very fast-paced, Olympic-level, exciting, dramatic, blockbuster-movie, operatic sport. It doesn't matter if there's one goal. My gosh, there's so much excitement in between goals. I will be getting up at 5:30 and 7:30 and the middle of the night to watch the games, because I'm telling you, there is nothing like this.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Americans like contact sports, OK?
GIORDANO: Exactly.
MARSHALL: We like to get hit. We want to see someone get hit. Put me in a hockey rink. Put me in a football arena. Basketball is damn near a contact sport.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: And baseball is the closest thing we have to hockey. And we'll stick with that.
JONES: Do you know how much these guys get hit? Do you know about the kind of fouling that takes place?
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Or we can run around and chase balls and kick it with our feet. Come on. Wake up.
SKINNER: I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to vote with the guys on this one.
GIORDANO: Yay.
SKINNER: There's no gratuitous violence. There's no...
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Of course there is.
MARSHALL: It's not about violence. It's about entertainment and contact and physical activity.
SKINNER: No cheerleaders.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Nancy said no cheerleaders.
OK, panel, hold on for me, because I have a group of elementary students here from Winterfield Elementary in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Who plays soccer over here? Say "Yay" if you play soccer.
KIDS: Yay!
NEVILLE: All right, would you watch soccer on television?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
NEVILLE: Yes. Is it exciting to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
NEVILLE: What do you like about soccer?
While you think about it, what do you like about soccer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way that the goalie, when the balls hit him in the chest, that really has to hurt, though.
GIORDANO: There you go.
NEVILLE: See, there's some physical action and contact.
MARSHALL: He likes contact sports.
GIORDANO: A true American. There you go.
NEVILLE: Thank you very much.
SKINNER: It doesn't hurt as much as when a 300-pound lineman hits you in the chest. Then it really hurts.
GIORDANO: There you go.
NEVILLE: Oh, man.
What about girls in the audience, anybody here who would want to watch?
Let's see Dana right here from South Carolina. Stand up for me.
DANA: Hi.
(LAUGHTER)
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Dana.
DANA: I don't like soccer because...
MARSHALL: I like Dana already.
JONES: Arthel, I have to tell you something about women and soccer.
NEVILLE: Uh-oh. What is it?
GIORDANO: Uh-oh.
JONES: If you are not into overinflated fat guys or tall, stringy guys, if you want fit, compact, real guys...
MARSHALL: Small guys.
JONES: ... with amazing attributes, you want to watch soccer. They are some of the sexiest men in the world.
(BELL RINGING)
NEVILLE: Oh, that's the bell. Too bad. Too bad.
SKINNER: They don't wear tight pants, though.
GIORDANO: We need more time.
NEVILLE: If they're sexy, I'll watch them. I'll have to check them out, Victoria.
OK, Victoria, Dom, Nancy, and Royal, thank you very much for being here.
GIORDANO: Thank you.
SKINNER: Thank you.
JONES: Thank you.
NEVILLE: I'm sorry we didn't have a full show today, but we'll get you back again.
And that's all the time we have for today. I'll see you again on Monday for more TALKBACK LIVE. Have a fantastic weekend, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
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