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Interview With Jeffrey Krames, Author of `The Rumsfeld Way'

Aired June 03, 2002 - 13:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is heading to South Asia, hoping to ease friction between India and Pakistan. Certainly is not the first time he's been thrust into a crisis situation. A new book called "The Rumsfeld Way" looks at the defense secretary's influence in Washington and his approach to peace.

Author Jeffrey Krames is here to talk more about that.

Jeffrey, thanks for being here. Wondering what is your perspective here on why it is that Donald Rumsfeld has chosen to deal with crisis after crisis?

JEFFREY KRAMES, AUTHOR, "THE RUMSFELD WAY": Well, I call him, in "The Rumsfeld Way," a "crisis manager without peer." On August 9, 1974, when Nixon resigned and Ford had to select one person to oversee this incredibly difficult transition to a new administration, he selected Rumsfeld on the spot. When a pharmaceutical company, GD Searle, was in great trouble in the '70s, they selected Rumsfeld. And, of course, his incredible performance since September 11 does show his just -- his incredible ability to deal with crises.

LIN: And yet at the same time, Jeffrey, his style is described as more stick than carrot. So does he have the diplomatic finesse to carry this through?

KRAMES: Well, he has -- actually he has said, people say I use the stick and not the carrot; the truth is, I use both. And there are many instances where he has been incredibly motivational, and been able to really pull off some terrific diplomatic sort of victories.

You know, he was the NATO ambassador under Richard Nixon in 1972 and 1973. He served as Ronald Reagan's special envoy to the Middle East. So he is no stranger to diplomacy.

LIN: And he's funny too, isn't he, Jeffrey?

KRAMES: Well, yes. Actually...

LIN: He's got a great sense of humor. You know, he really breaks up that Pentagon briefing.

KRAMES: Listen, I don't think we've ever seen the likes of a Rumsfeld in that particular room. And of course he can tear, you know, reporters to shreds. And as early as 1980, when "Fortune" named him one of the 10 toughest bosses in America, he said he can demolish anyone not in complete control of the facts.

So yes, there are many sides to Donald Rumsfeld. And humor, of course, is one of them.

LIN: All right. So where does all that play in, then, to his meetings in India and Pakistan? And does he use a different approach with each leader?

KRAMES: Well, you know, he -- I call him, in "The Rumsfeld Way," the ultimate pragmatist. So he is not going in there, I do not believe, looking for some grand solution. We have a terribly incendiary situation over there, you know, with two people -- with two countries with up to 80 warheads, of course, and the possible nuclear outcome. And so I think he's going in there, really, to listen to these two leaders to see if there is any diplomatic hope at all to head off any kind of conventional war, and of course a nuclear war.

And it's quite important for him, and he understands this, that even a conventional war can spiral out of control. So he really needs to set these two leaders off in a different direction. And one of his own victims is for -- the best leaders set a strategic direction and get people to follow that direction. So I think he's going to use all his powers of persuasion to see if he can deter these two leaders from heading to war which, right now, looks like, of course, a definite probability -- at least possibility.

LIN: So who does he take a page from? Is it Dick Cheney, his predecessor, or is it Colin Powell, who has a repetition of his own for some great diplomatic skills?

KRAMES: Well, you know, he and Cheney go back to the days of Ford where it was Cheney who was the protege to Rumsfeld back then. And when Rumsfeld became defense secretary, it was Cheney who filled his shoes as chief of staff in the Ford administration. So those two seem to be the closer allies, I would imagine.

LIN: All right. Well Jeffrey, quick last note here, if he fails, how does he handle failure?

KRAMES: Well, you know -- and I point this out in "The Rumsfeld Way," and I follow all of his successes -- the only notable failure that I trace back in his career, is in 1986, he ran briefly for president for the 1988 election. He pulled out in 1987 because he said he didn't have the funds to do it. And he seemed actually, you know, quite OK with the situation.

But when I spoke to Dr. Kissinger earlier this year, you know, he said Rumsfeld is now interested in public service and nothing else. And I do believe this is a man who will do anything he possibly can to serve his nation. And I think President Bush is sending the right man over to possibly diffuse this situation.

But Rumsfeld does not hold sort of, you know, any magic bullets. And he understands that. And that's why he's been very mum on this situation. In his May 30 briefing, he hasn't said, actually, anything about this. I think he wants to go over there and listen to these two leaders first.

LIN: And maybe that's exactly what they need. All right, thank you very much Jeffrey Krames, author of "The Rumsfeld Way."

KRAMES: Thank you Carol.

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