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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Richard Murphy

Aired June 08, 2002 - 12:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: For more on the crisis in the Middle East, we are joined by Ambassador Richard Murphy. He's in New York. Thanks for joining us.

RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, we heard from Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak that Arafat must be given a chance. Is it your opinion that his chances just have, you know, run out, or should he be given a chance?

MURPHY: Well, just how he will take advantage of the chance -- he's still alive, he's being criticized by his own people, he's hated by Sharon and by the Israeli leadership. But I think Mubarak has probably put it about as well as anybody could. It's for his people to decide.

And the history of trying to anoint a Palestinian leader from outside has proven to be absolutely worthless.

WHITFIELD: And other Arab nations are still standing behind Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. They've made it very clear, they've been pressing on the White House, that the White House needs to lend some support to Arafat to give him a chance in which to come about some solutions.

They said if there's a Palestinian state, then there would be an end to violence. People will have homes, people will have money, they'll have jobs, and that is the way in which to approach this problem.

MURPHY: Well, President Bush has spoken of his support for Palestinian state. What he's hearing from Mubarak and other Arab leaders is, it's a good vision, it's a good statement, but it really doesn't mean much in terms of giving hope to the Palestinians unless you say when. That's why they keep pushing this idea of a time-line, and clearly Bush is not ready for that yet.

WHITFIELD: So why doesn't he want to commit to a time-line? What is at stake if he were to do so?

MURPHY: What's at stake in the first instance is a very negative Israeli reaction. In the second instance, I guess he can't be sure what it really will accomplish. To give hope sounds good, but if the leadership on the Palestinian side isn't seriously reorganizing itself -- and they are being criticized by their own people a great deal, what will that chance actually contribute to the process?

WHITFIELD: And what would be considered a reasonable time-line? It seems like neither side would agree on whether it is a matter of weeks or months or years. Somebody is still going to be disappointed if the Bush administration were to commit to a time-line. Wouldn't that be the case?

MURPHY: Well, yes, you're right. And I think I recall what former Prime Minister Shamir said when he left office, too, and was voted out in favor of Rabin back in '92. He said if I had stayed in office, I would have continued talking for 10 more years. And that's the warning that is in the ears of the Palestinians.

Just to say build your institutions and somehow hope will develop, it's not good enough for them.

WHITFIELD: So we're still very much in the beginning stages of yet this new phase of the peace process, or at least talks of. President Bush is going to be meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Monday. Sharon has already set the conditions that he is not willing to agree on a peace plan until the violence ends, and until there is a new Palestinian Authority, or at least a leader of the Authority.

So does it even look like they could possibly make any progress between a meeting between Bush and Sharon?

MURPHY: Well, I think it just underlines that the positions are so set on both sides of the line, that it is the outsiders that have to produce the necessary energy to change the equation. And if that's not going to be the United States by itself, perhaps the United States in company with Europeans, Russians and the United Nations, this quartet that we've been hearing about so much.

WHITFIELD: This will be the sixth trip in 17 months for Sharon. What would make this trip to the U.S., meeting with Bush, different?

MURPHY: What I understand he plans to do is to put forward his plan. He has said -- his supporters have said, you don't realize how many really dramatic ideas he has about peace and how to get there and what peace will consist of.

The reaction to that on the Palestinian side is, we know this man. We know his support for the settlements. We know his support for a plan over the years which is leading if it is not stopped, it's leading on the ground to cantonization, to divisions of the West Bank and to a very nonviable Palestinian state.

So, I suppose they're prepared to be favorably surprised, but they don't expect to be.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ambassador Richard Murphy, thank you very much for joining us from New York today.

MURPHY: Thank you.

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