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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Dirty Bomb Plot Exposed

Aired June 10, 2002 - 17:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Now, on this special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, a new and chilling al Qaeda plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have disrupted an unfolding terrorist plot to attack the United States by exploding a radioactive dirty bomb.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The likely target. A timely arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a man detained who is a threat to the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The suspect: A U.S. citizen, now held as an enemy combatant.

How deadly is the dirty bomb threat? Are U.S. hospitals ready for a radioactive weapon, and the panic that may go with it?

You are looking at a live picture of our nation's capital. Is al Qaeda trying to set off a dirty bomb here in Washington?

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. We will devote most of this hour to the story gripping the government and much of the nation: The threat of a radioactive attack by al Qaeda terrorists.

To do that, we have reporters live in key locations. They are tracking the suspect's history, and they'll tell you what's in store for him.

And later this hour, two of the nation's top experts on dirty bombs will be taking your phone calls and answering your questions.

But we begin with the announcement that drove home to all of us, how real this threat may be. CNN justice correspondent, Kelli Arena joins us now live with the latest -- Kelli. KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, officials say that the U.S. has in custody a man who was planning to build and set off a radioactive dirty bomb in the United States, most likely Washington, D.C.

He goes by the name Abdullah Al Muhajir, but he's also known as Jose Padilla. And he's an American.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHCROFT: Because of the close cooperation among the FBI, the CIA, Defense Department and other federal agencies, we were able to thwart this terrorist. To our enemies, I say we will continue to be vigilant against all threats, whether they come from overseas or at home in America. To our citizens I say, we will continue to respect the rule of law while doing everything in our power to prevent terrorist attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: U.S. officials say there is no evidence at this point that a dirty bomb has already been made. They say the FBI and CIA were able to thwart the plan at the so-called discussion stage.

Well, Al Muhajir was detained by the FBI in Chicago more than a month ago when he flew in from Pakistan on May 8. He was held without being charged until Sunday, when he was declared an enemy combatant. He is now being held at a Naval brig in South Carolina. Under that classification, even without being charged, he can be held as long as the war on terror continues -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelli Arena in Washington, thank you very much.

So what put authorities on the suspect's trail? Our national security correspondent David Ensor has the story of how they got it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When he was arrested May 8 at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Jose Padilla or Abdullah Al Muhajir, as he calls himself, was carrying over $10,000., U.S. officials say, though he only declared 8,000 to U.S. Customs.

It was captured al Qaeda operations chief, Abu Zubaydah, who first told U.S. interrogators about the U.S. citizen working for Al Qaeda, two weeks before the arrest in Chicago. Zubaydah did not give the man's name officials say, that came from other sources.

ASHCROFT: We know from multiple, independent and cooperating sources that Abdullah Al Muhajir was closely associated with al Qaeda, and that as an al Qaeda operative, he was involved in planning future terrorist attacks on innocent American civilians in the United States.

ENSOR: Officials say Padilla, or Al Muhajir, met twice in Karachi, Pakistan, with Abu Zubaydah and other senior al Qaeda operatives, and that in another Pakistani city, Lahore, he received training with another man in how to make bombs.

ASHCROFT: While in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Al Muhajir trained with the enemy, including studying how to wire explosive devices and researching radiological dispersion devices.

ENSOR: An associate was arrested in Pakistan, U.S. officials say, prior to his arrest. In the weeks before his arrest, Padilla, Al Muhajir travelled, officials say, between Pakistan, Egypt and Switzerland. He arrived in Chicago on a reconnaissance trip, likely to include Washington, D.C.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEP. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We stopped this man in the initial planning stages.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR : U.S. officials say some of what Abu Zubaydah tells them, they know to be false. But that this is an example of where information from the captive al Qaeda leader has been cross-checked with other intelligence, and shown to be correct, potentially stopping a radiological bomb attack that could have killed many and terrorized many more.

BLITZER: David, are you getting any indication of whether Al Muhajir was a small fish, big fish, in the overall al Qaeda operation?

ENSOR: No, it's not clear. He did however meet with Abu Zubaydah and with other senior al Qaeda officials, so they clearly took him seriously enough. They thought he had potential, to meet with him in Karachi so, of some importance, yes, not a small fish, but was he a big fish, we don't know.

BLITZER: David Ensor, thank you very much

In the case of the alleged dirty bomber, I have learned from my sources more about the extensive and effective cooperation this time between the CIA and the FBI. The CIA brought the FBI into the operation when it learned that the suspect was about to return to the United States.

Well-placed sources tell me there was enormous concern that Abdullah Al Muhajir might try to do something sinister while on board that flight to Chicago. He was carefully observed throughout the trip, and he was arrested by the FBI as soon as he landed. As you've heard, he is now in Navy brig in Charleston, South Carolina.

So, just who is he? The dirty bomb suspect was arrested last month in the town where he was raised. Let's go live to our Chicago bureau chief, Jeff Flock. He's got some more -- Jeff.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf, not getting a whole lot of cooperation from Justice Department on this. We have been poking around on this man, known as Jose Padilla when he lived here. We've got a picture of him when he was arrested in Florida, more new information on that arrest in Florida in just a moment. But first of all, born in New York, came here at age of 4 or 5. Though, he was arrested for the first time in Chicago, to our knowledge in 1985, for aggravated battery, armed robbery, and attempted armed robbery. These were juvenile charges, he was 15 years of age at the time.

Now we spent the afternoon out in his neighborhood, we have picture of the house where he lived, with his mother. We are told by family, friends, that his father passed away not long after his birth. That's the neighborhood there, Logan Square, largely Hispanic, Logan Square neighborhood. That's the house there we have been told that Mr. Padilla is of Puerto Rican descent, again, talking to a family friend who stays in fairly close contact with his mother who now apparently lives in Miami.

She says that he converted to Islam, not in prison, as we had initially been told, but after he married a woman from the Middle East who herself was Islamic. The woman's name is Nelli Ojeda, a family friend who says that Mr. Padilla, was in her view, a nice guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELLI OJEDA, FORMER NEIGHBOR: I describe him like a very nice person, very sweet person, and I have nothing bad to say about him, nothing at all. A very, very sweet person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLOCK: And, Wolf one last piece of new information, this is with regard to that arrest in Florida. According to now, Broward County's Sheriff's deputies, this information coming from our Miami bureau, he was a suspect in a traffic dispute in which there was shooting.

He allegedly shot from his car after a traffic dispute. He was apprehended at his house with a .38-caliber revolver. Padilla, apparently, later physically attacked a sheriff's deputy, who was able to restrain him. He wound up for about a year in the county lock-up, waiting for trial. He was ultimately convicted, but he had already served enough time to cover the sentence, so he was released.

And then, apparently, there were several traffic infractions. And there was apparently a warrant out, Wolf, for his arrest, issued November 11, 1997, but there's no word on whether or not they ever were able to serve that warrant or take him into custody in Florida.

That is latest from here, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jeff Flock, in Chicago.

Dodged by disclosures of intelligence slip-ups, the Bush administration today, was able to announce a victory. Let's go live to our senior White House correspondent, John King -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Wolf. Now, no one here at the White House believes that this arrest, the announcement of this arrest today, will quiet the criticism in Congress or slow down those inquires into what the FBI and the CIA knew, and the failures in those agencies prior to September 11.

But President Bush, hailing this arrest today as proof that those agencies, the FBI, the CIA and others are now cooperating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I can tell you that we have a man detained who is a threat to country. And that, thanks to the vigilance of our intelligence gathering and law enforcement, he is now off the streets, where he should be. And I'll let the Defense Department, Justice Department comment on specifics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Senior administration officials telling us the president has been kept up to speed about this investigation, from the beginning, even before the arrest of the suspect, and it was last night the president signed off on designating him as an enemy combatant of the United States. That because of a deadline in the legal system. Had they not designated him as such, they would have had to bring him into federal court -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, what about the cooperation from Pakistan? We know he had been in Pakistan. How much cooperation are you hearing the Pakistani government gave the U.S.?

KING: As David Ensor mentioned, another suspect arrested in Pakistan, and U.S. officials say that cooperation from Pakistan is good, some would say even exemplary. When the CIA or other U.S. agencies go to Pakistani government and say we need your help with this specific project, we need your help finding this specific suspect.

What they do say is that prior to September 11, and even since September 11, al Qaeda allowed to be active in Pakistan, some would say even flourish in Pakistan. They wish the Musharraf government would do more on its own to crack down on remaining al Qaeda cells. So they wish that would happen they do say though when they ask for specific help, they do get it.

BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much

Just what is a dirty bomb? For starters, it's not, repeat not, a nuclear weapon. For the rest, though, let's turn to CNN's Miles O'Brien, he's at CNN center in Atlanta -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that is good place to start, what it is not. Look at the big red slash there: This is not a mushroom cloud. I repeat, this has nothing to do with a nuclear explosion, with splitting the atom, which involves weapons grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, critical mass, which means the weight is packed in such a way that it causes that explosion.

Finally, a trigger which literally unleashes the power of the sun. That is a nuclear explosion. Let's talk about instead, what a dirty bomb might be. In essence, what you do is take a conventional explosive and wrap it in something radioactive. The explosion simply spreads something that is radioactive over a dispersed area, causing some potential, for exposure to radiation sickness, but more than anything, causing panic.

What are sources for this kind of thing? Well, one of the obvious ones that people think about are fuel rods from nuclear reactors. Possible source? Actually, I'm told by many experts that's unlikely.

First of all, they're fairly heavily secured. Second, they're not so easy to deal with. And it is plutonium which after all is very, very potent and could kill someone from radiation sickness very quickly if it was being handled.

Finally, it is as we say, we want to say over and over again, no matter what you say, no matter how you slice a dirty bomb, it is not considered a nuclear explosion. Now, let's say, for example, a hypothetical, if the bomb in Oklahoma City in April 1995, was in fact a dirty bomb, Would there have been more deaths from that explosion? No, there were 168 people killed there. And the explosion would have been the same.

The question is, how might it affect the response by the rescue people? Eighty-seven people were pulled from the rubble of Oklahoma City, would that have held back there efforts in some way if the Geiger counters had started clicking.

So the real issue in dirty bombs, it is a psychological and economic impact that we are talking about. And ironically, there is an -- it is inversely proportional to the spread. The more that it's spread out, the more potential panic, the more potential economic impact; the less likely it is that it will cause radiation sickness because it will disperse the radiation material, the radioactive material.

I'm told that if a large area is exposed to certain types of radioactive isotopes, it can prompt the necessity to not just sand- blast buildings but in some cases tear them down more. So the potential for economic consequences in these dirty bombs is tremendous.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, thank you very much for that explanation.

Now, you have a chance to weigh in on this story as well. Our Web question of the day is this: Do you think your city is prepared to respond to a dirty bomb attack? Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. You can vote there, while you're there let me know what your thinking. There's a "click here" icon right ton the left side of the page. Send me your comments; I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program.

That's also where you can read my daily timeline column, cnn.com/wolf.

Where would terrorist get there hands on radioactive material? What if we told you the United States lost track of a good amount? That story coming up. Also, what a dirty bomb could do to your body and how far away do you have to be from an attack to be out of harms way.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jamie Mcintyre. The Justice Department could not charge him, so the U.S. military now has him. I will report on how one American's al Qaeda connections has cost him his right to a speedy trial.

BLITZER: And we'll be taking your concerns, as well phone calls, to our panel of experts. Get ready. Call this number 1-888-cnn-0561.

And a wildfire could cause evacuations in Denver. We'll take you there, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Abdullah Al Muhajir is being held in a high-security brig at the U.S. Naval Facility in South Carolina, the Charleston Naval Weapons Station. That's where Jan Jeffcoat of CNN affiliate WCSC joins us now live -- Jan.

JAN JEFFCOAT, WCSC: Good afternoon, Wolf.

Earlier this morning federal officials, brought Abdullah Muhajir to the high security brig at the naval weapons station in Bowcreek (ph), South Carolina, where security is so tight, this is his as far as our cameras got to the entrance way you can see here behind me.

Now, to give you some background information on the Naval weapons station; it acts as host command center for the military, supporting the Navy fleet. It sits on 17,000 acres of land with 5,800 active military duty personnel, and 4,200 civilians.

Now we are told that the brig is located on a remote part of the station and that Muhajir is being detained separate from the other prisoners. Folks who work and live in the area have mixed emotions about the news. But earlier this year, the Department of Defense did favor the Naval Weapons Station here, in Bowcreek (ph), South Carolina as their favorite spot to house suspected domestic terrorist as they await trial. Wolf.

BLITZER: Jan, before I let you go is there any explanation that you have gotten from officials there, why the Charleston facility in South Carolina was selected for Muhajir?

JEFFCOAT: Wolf, what we are told is that earlier this year, the Department of Defense did favor this site to house domestic terrorists and that is why he was brought here.

BLITZER: Jan Jeffcoat of CNN affiliate WCSC, thank you very much for that report.

And Abdullah Al Muhajir is the second American citizen to be held as an enemy combat on the war on terrorism and that's causing some controversy. Let's get that from our military affairs correspondent, our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American born Abdullah Al Muhajir, born Jose Padilla, was moved to a high security navy brig in Charleston, South Carolina over weekend after President Bush designated him an enemy combatant because the Justice Department, faced a deadline to either charge him or let him go.

ASHCROFT: We have acted, with legal authority, both under the laws of war, and clear Supreme Court precedent, which established that the military may detain a United States citizen who has joined the enemy and has entered our country to carry out hostile acts.

MCINTYRE: Muhajir joins Yasser Esam Hamdi, who was also born in the U.S. but raised in Saudi Arabia, as the second American to be held in indefinitely, incommunicado, without criminal charges or legal counsel. under the Bush administration's definition of enemy combatants.

Civil libertarians think it is an outrage.

STANELY COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What they have essentially done is said, we think this is a bad guy, we can't prove anything, he is a U.S. citizen, so we are going ignore his rights and simply put him in military criminal justice system, military system, and hold him indefinitely.

MCINTYRE: With the priority now on defending the homeland, the U.S. is making clear its willingness to lock away American citizens, based on secret intelligence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must find them, we most stop them, and when we have them in our control, we must be able to question them about plans for future attacks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Now, Pentagon officials say it is their understanding that neither of these two Americans who are being held will face military tribunals or commissions because they are not for American citizens.

And the Pentagon objects to the characterization that they are being held indefinitely. Saying that they could be eligible for release once the hostilities are over. But at the same time it also acknowledges that the war against terror, is essentially unending at this point, so that might be a difference without really much of a distinction -- Wolf

BLITZER: Jamie, when he was arrested May 8, we were told, he did have a lawyer, a New York lawyer who represented him. Are you hearing anything about the status of his relationship with an attorney at this point? MCINTYRE: My understanding is once he got taken to that military facility in South Carolina, all contact with legal representation was cut off. He is, in fact, incommunicado.

Now in the case of Hamdi, there is a public defender arguing in federal court in Norfolk, that he ought to have access to Hamdi. So far the government is resisting that saying that as an enemy combatant he has no right to legal representation.

BLITZER: Jamie Mcintyre, thank you very much, over at the Pentagon.

And the wildfires just got wilder. We will tell you the danger heading toward Denver and the efforts to keep thousands of people safe. Also, the impact of dirty bombs. Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows you where you are determines how sick you could become.

And also we'll be taking your phone calls on this story. Call this number 1-888-cnn-0561. And ahead, the mafia mourns one of its own.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Our coverage of the dirty bomb plot will continue in a moment.

First some other stories making news, right now, fierce flames outside Denver, have fire officials worried. Plans are being made in Colorado to evacuate residents in the fire zone, that could affect up to 40,000 people. The wildfires already charred 60,000 acres.

The man who swaggered and murdered his way to the top in organized crime has died, former Gambino crime boss, John Gotti, died in federal prison today of cancer. The larger-than-life gangster once nicknamed Dapper Don for his once lavish lifestyle was 61 years old.

The FBI is reviewing the results of a polygraph given to the father of Elizabeth Smart, she's the 14-year-old girl who was kidnapped six days ago. Police also plan to interview Smart's sister for a third time. She's the only witness to the kidnapping.

Citing issues with the leadership of the Palestinian Authority; President Bush and Israeli Prime Mister Ariel Sharon, met at the White House today, both voiced concerns that conditions do no yet exist for peace in the Middle East.

The prime minister says he is looking forward for a Palestinian leader he says he can negotiate with.

Nuclear bombs use highly enriched uranium and plutonium, usually kept under tight security. Dirty bombs, on the other hand, may be easier for terrorist to obtain. How concerned should you be? Once again, CNN's Miles O'Brien is looking into that. He joins us from the CNN center -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Wolf, let's talk about the possible sources of the radioactive material that might be used inside a dirty bomb. One of the things that comes to mind is nuclear power plants. But that is probably not the most likely source.

The spent rods of fuel from the nuclear power plant contain plutonium and they are very difficult to work with. If you can get your hands on them, they are fairly well secured. In addition, in order to wrap it around explosive, which will be in a dirty bomb, which would create the explosive power of a dirty bomb. You would have to break open those rods and grind up that plutonium and that would be a very hazardous effort indeed, something that would cause radiation sickness and death very quickly if you didn't take all kinds of precautions.

Let's look at some of the other places where radiation is used more commonly. And one of those places is in the use of food irradiation. There's all kinds of food products that are irradiated to keep them from spoiling. And the material used in this is something that could be of use to terrorist.

It's not as secure perhaps as nuclear power plants might be but, never the less, its not like this stuff after it's used is thrown into a dumpster. Here's one that I didn't know about until today and that is oil drilling. Believe it or not, in the use of oil exploration, there is a use of cesium to help figure out the layers in the strata rock as they're searching for oil, another place where radioactive material might be available to a terrorist.

And finally the one which perhaps causes the most concern to a lot of people who know a lot about this are the medical uses, medical centers, where radioactive material is used in all kinds of areas, from X-rays to radioactive iodine, which is used to track and allow doctors to look inside you and trace various illnesses.

So some of the treatments for cancers, all kinds of radioactive material used there. Once again, when it's used, it's not very useful to a terrorist, it's dispersed. It's also kept under a fairly good security. Not just tossed into a dumpster when it's all done.

Now let's talk a little about what goes missing.

And this is kind of a scary point, but it's something we should bring out to you. According to Nuclear Regulatory Commission, there are two million licensed radioactive sources in this country. That's a tremendous amount. I'm sure you would you have guessed less than that. Now, on average, over the course of any give year, according to the NRC there are 300 reports of lost, stolen or abandoned radioactive material. As a matter of fact, over the past five years, there have been 1,495 cases, nearly 1,500 cases, and according to NRC, there are still 835 of those cases that have yet to be found. That is more than 50 percent of those cases.

So there is a lot of stuff out there. The question is, though, once it got into the hands of a terrorist, how would they form that dirty bomb? How would they use it and how would they implement it? These are big questions and apparently, law enforcement at least today is proving they're watching very closely -- Wolf. BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, once again thank you very much, and what if a terrorist is able to blow up a dirty bomb? When we return, we'll take you inside the human body and show you what happens if you're exposed to radiation.

Plus we'll go live to an ER and find out how prepared your emergency room is to handle a radiation attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now back to our top story, the alleged plot to detonate a dirty bomb in the United States. U.S. official say they arrested Abdullah Al Muhajir while he was starting a reconnaissance mission for al Qaeda. CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on dirty bombs and their potential effects.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what it might look like, a radiation bomb or dirty bomb, a simple container filled with explosives and radioactive material. You may have heard of such materials, plutonium or uranium, but experts say terrorists may be more likely to use cesium 137 or even cobalt 60. It is these materials that emit gamma rays, high-energy radiation that can pass right through your skin.

If a dirty bomb explodes, the blast would send a cloud of radioactive dust high into the air, which may then fall to the ground in an oval shaped pattern. We know it's bad, but just how bad is it? Well, if you're standing here, in the first zone, the most deadly zone close to the bomb, gamma rays will penetrate your entire body.

And go straight to the cells where the energy disrupts their electoral chemical balance causing massive cellular shut down and probably death. There are currently no treatments to halt this process. Experts believe only a handful of people will suffer that fate. So if you're here, in the second zone, the range at which is dependent on the bombs explosive power, as well as the amount of radioactive material, you will likely survive.

But you may get radiation sickness. That's because in this region, the energy's only strong enough to kill cells sensitive to radiation. This includes cells lining your intestines causing nausea and vomiting. It also destroys immune system cells found in the blood and bone marrow leaving victims prone to potentially fatal infections.

Doctors can protect these patients with antibiotics and sometimes even bone marrow transplants to restore their immune system. Now if you're part of the vast majority of people in the third zone, even further away, you may still be affected, but not know it for decades. In this case, radiation does not immediately kill cells. Instead the damage is done inside the nucleus of some cells where the x-shaped chromosomes contain long strands of DNA.

The radioactive energy can destroy certain genes, which in time may cause a cell to divide and grow into cancer, most commonly thyroid cancer. This particular cancer is easy to treat and may be prevented with potassium iodide pills if taken immediately after exposure or even before.

Radiation can also damage future generations by affecting the DAN in sperm cells and egg cells. As each cell divides, the damaged nucleus of the cell shown in red passes on the damaged genes as the embryo grows. The child will be more likely to have birth defects and more prone to cancer.

And those who are farthest away would be safe. Experts agree a radiation bomb would probably not kill a large number of people. They say if an explosion is too small, the radioactive dust would be spread over only a small area. And if it's a large explosion, that same radioactive dust would be spread too thin to hurt many people.

In other words, a dirty bomb is not an effective weapon of mass destruction. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So is your hospital prepared to handle the effects of radiation? Dr. Red Duke is a professor of surgery at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. He joins me now live. Dr. Duke, you're in an emergency room in Houston. How prepared is the emergency room where you are right now to handle the effects, God forbid, of a dirty bomb attack?

DR. RED DUKE, PROFESSOR OF SURGERY, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: Well, I can tell you only about Houston. We've been work on this subject for the last four years around here. And of course it's been intensified since 9/11. They -- the emergency centers throughout the area are much better prepared than they've ever been.

They understand what it means to decontaminate people. People are trained to handle that issue. Physicians are much more sensitive than ever before about radiation, chemicals or biological weapons. And we've made an effort to have everything we need here to deal with these subjects, such as the potassium iodide just mentioned.

BLITZER: What would happen -- what would the first thing that would happened to someone who came to your emergency room exposed to that kind of radiation from a dirty bomb? What would you have do to that patient?

DUKE: Well the most important thing, in that area I believe, and I honestly know more about chemical and biological issues than I do this particular matter, but they would have to use -- we would decontaminate. In other words, you get all of their clothes off of them and people that are properly clothed, to deal with that on the outside would wash them like they've never been washed before to get rid of as much of that material as possible off of their skin.

BLITZER: When you say that the hospital is well prepared, at least better prepared than it was four or five years ago, in this area but also in biological or chemical terrorism? DUKE: Oh yes, sir, we've worked hard to be sure that we've -- we're much more skilled, I think, or aware of potential diseases and one thing I can tell you that is not currently immediately available, but there's a lot of work in the science community, with which I'm familiar, in which sensors are being developed to identify these specific organisms and or chemicals just in the earliest possible stage so that appropriate therapy can be instituted.

BLITZER: Is -- are the medical personnel in the ER, the emergency rooms, at least in your area, prepared, trained to recognize the symptoms for let's say a cyanide or a saran gas attack?

DUKE: The identity has to be made outside. That'll be made by the HAZMAT group and our emergency system, like the Houston Fire Department. These people are the ones who'll inter, you know, intercede initially and we'll know something about it before they get here. And of course, we'll know how to deal with repair fields decontaminating or desensitizing, detoxifying these substances as they come along.

BLITZER: Now do you have -- doctor, do you have all the anecdotes you would need in case of an emergency like this?

DUKE: Well, I certainly think we do, and I -- you know the one thing I do want to emphasize is I don't think we'll ever be completely prepared. There are too many contingencies and too many variations, but we are -- it's a constant issue. We're all concerned about it, and we focus on it all the time.

And the one thing that I can tell you that you can't beat the American people. One year ago today this hospital was being evacuated because of Allison, you know Tropical Storm Allison. People just get together, work, cooperate and they really do a good job.

BLITZER: Dr. Red Duke in Houston, thanks for joining us from the ER, appreciate it very much and coming up, an opportunity for you to ask experts about today's events. Call us at this number 1-888-CNN- 0561 to answer your questions the Director of the Wisconsin Project and Nuclear Arms Control, Gary Milhollin. And the former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs, Dr. Sue Bailey. Your phone calls next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We've seen that the threat of dirty bombs is very real. To learn more about such weapons and to address some of your concerns let's turn to a couple of experts. Dr. Sue Bailey is a former assistant secretary of defense for health affairs. Gary Milhollin is a director of the Wisconsin Project Nuclear Arms Control.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. Let's go to our viewer phone calls right away. South Carolina, go ahead with your question.

CALLER: Yes, sir, I'm a firefighter of a rather small department and as a first responder, how can I become aware that I'm responding to a dirty bomb emergency? BLITZER: What about that, Sue?

DR. SUE BAILEY, FMR. ASSISTANT SECY. OF DEFENSE FOR HEALTH AFFAIRS: Well, there may not be symptoms right away that would let you know because the people that are the closest are going to die right away. That's going to tell you something, but you may not know if that's a conventional weaponry or whether it's radioactive.

So the fact of the matter is the concern here is for your safety so if there's any question, you need to be wearing an N95 mask. You need to be aware that there's radiation in the area, be decontaminated later after the effects may -- after you may have been exposed, be sure that you're decontaminated particularly if you're receiving any treatment or getting away from the site.

BLITZER: Let's take another caller from Georgia. Go ahead please.

CALLER: Thank you, Wolf. Dr. Bailey, what can the American people do to protect themselves against a dirty bomb?

BAILEY: Well, potassium iodide is something you've heard about that can protect you against the long-term effects. Right now those pills are being distributed just in areas where there are nuclear reactors, for instance, maybe in a 10-mile wide area. I think we need to have those in some of the areas such as Washington, D.C., New York City, larger areas where that perhaps are targeted. And there needs to be enough there to really protect you in the case of an attack.

BLITZER: Gary, we have an e-mail question from Marguerite in Seattle, Washington for you. "What are the odds that this dirty bomb suspect is a sacrificial lamb and really a misdirection play from what the terrorists really have up their sleeves?"

GARY MILHOLLIN, DIRECTOR, WISCONSIN PROJECT ON NUCLEAR ARMS CONTROL: Well we don't -- we really don't know much this guy. But what we -- I think ought to learn from this is that we need to protect ourselves before something happens and apparently we succeeded. We know this guy has come here. He's supposed to be on a reconnaissance mission. We also know that there are a lot of nuclear sources in the United States and we also -- this causes us to think about the fact that it's not hard to make a dirty bomb.

BLITZER: All right, let's take another caller from Florida. Go ahead Florida.

CALLER: Hello, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: Yes, I'm trying, I wanted to ask, what would be the effect of the -- of a low level burst of a dirty bomb over water supply, over fresh water supply?

BLITZER: That's a good question. What about that, Sue? BAILEY: Well, that's not as big a concern because this is dispersed widely. If a dust cloud is going to blow across your area, it's not going to be as significant a problem. Long-term it can be a problem because it can change perhaps cause birth defects. It could cause cancer long-term, so we're certainly concerned about that because one of the routes to be contaminated is to ingest radioactivity. So that would be a concern.

BLITZER: And, Gary, we have a related e-mail question from Gerry of Tampa, Florida. What is -- what is the affected area of the so- called suitcase bomb detonated in an average metropolitan area, casualties, contamination period.

MILHOLLIN: Well, when people talk about a suitcase bomb, they're really talking a real nuclear weapon. But let's assume by a suitcase bomb that we mean a dirty bomb such as the one we're talking about today. The most likely effect would be in a -- in a fairly small area, a few blocks, and the most likely radiation effect would be long-term, higher risk of cancer.

It's unlikely in my opinion, that anyone would be killed immediately by radiation. The deaths would be by higher explosive, and what we'd be looking at is decontamination and we'd also be -- we have the advantage of monitors that could tell us exactly what the dose is, which doesn't happen to be the case with anthrax and some other things.

BLITZER: You wrote recently in "Commentary" magazine, a piece suggesting, Gary, that this kind of dirty bomb was not necessarily the highest potential risk out there as far as terrorists are concerned.

MILHOLLIN: That's right. If you take a high explosive and you put radiation in it, you're not going to kill any more people immediately. What you're going to do is you're going to -- you're going to create a psychological problem.

You're going to create terror in the minds of people because radioactivity is so intangible. But it's very hard to take a large amount of radioactivity and disperse it. It's just physically difficult. In this case physics is on our side.

BLITZER: Here's another e-mail for you Sue. It's from Terry (ph) in Atlanta. "If the threat is a dirty bomb and the U.S. government is going to ship nuclear waste to Nevada, might terrorists get this stuff on route?"

BAILEY: Well, the material that they are talking about shipping, right now it's sitting all over the United States and it is not so well protected. When we move that, that will be under military escort. It will be very safe. It's really these medical uses and food radiation, products that concern me more. That material is much more easily obtained.

BLITZER: You're nodding, you're shaking your head.

MILHOLLIN: Yes, that's right. When nuclear waste from a reactor is transported it's done so in a giant cast, which is very difficult to break into. If you did get in it, the radiation would kill the person breaking in. So and these things, as Sue says, are protected military. So that's not really the risk. She's right, the risk is the wide dispersal of fairly weak radioactivity and lots of places.

BLITZER: All right, let's take another caller from New York. Go ahead New York.

CALLER: Yes, I was wondering what would happen if the nuclear -- I mean dirty bomb was detonated in a New York City subway system.

BLITZER: Good question.

BAILEY: Well, in fact, that has been simulated and it could induce a situation where an area maybe in Manhattan, many blocks would be uninhabitable for decades, not to mention the destruction to the people that are there and the long-term possible effects.

BLITZER: You're not as optimistic as that doctor we just had in the emergency room, that ERs emergency rooms around the country at hospitals are prepared, God forbid for this contingency.

BAILEY: Well, they don't have some of the medications on hand they need. Not everyone is trained up as they should be. We've got to remember this will not be a weapon of mass destruction, this type of a bomb we're talking about today. It will cause terror, however, but we can treat almost all radiation sickness. So those who are not killed right away, and there would be a few, those can be treated. Our hospitals need to be ready and I don't think they're quite there yet.

BLITZER: OK, Dr. Sue Bailey, Gary Milhollin, thanks for your expertise, appreciate it very much.

MILHOLLIN: Sure.

BLITZER: A planned terror attack on U.S. soil. When we return, the latest developments on today's top story. The Justice Department announces the capture of a U.S. citizen plotting allegedly to bomb his own country. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's the latest on our top story. Attorney General John Ashcroft announced the capture of an al Qaeda operative who allegedly planned to build and explode a radioactive dirty bomb in the United States. The suspect is identified as a United States citizen Abdullah Al Muhajir, once named Jose Padilla.

Al Muhajir is being held by the U.S. military at a naval brig in Charleston, South Carolina. The Justice Department says he was captured May 8 as he flew into Chicago's O'Hare International Airport from Pakistan. Al Muhajir is being held as an enemy combatant. That means he has fewer legal rights than civilian defendants in criminal cases. President Bush made the decision yesterday to treat Al Muhajir as a combatant. The administration faced tomorrow's deadline to decide whether to charge the suspect in federal court or turn him over to the Defense Department. The investigation is continuing.

When we return, a look into today's e-mail plus we'll find out how you're answering our Web question of the day, how prepared is your city to deal with a radioactive dirty bomb? The results are next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's go to New York and get a preview of Lou Dobbs "MONEYLINE". That begins, of course, right at the top of the hour -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Thank you very much, Wolf. Coming up authorities spoil a terrorist plot to explode a radioactive dirty bomb in this country. We'll have a live report for you from Washington and I'll be joined by former CIA Director James Woolsey tonight. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld says Iraq has and continues to develop weapons of mass destruction despite Iraq's claims to the contrary. We'll have a report for you from the Pentagon and the debate over the war against Islamists. I'll be talking with the Director of the Council of American Islamic Relations tonight about the appropriate terminology. All of that and a lot more. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. Here's your chance now to weigh in on our Web question of the day. Earlier we asked do you think your city is prepared to respond to a dirty bomb attack. An overwhelming majority of you so far 92 percent say no. Only eight percent say yes. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Time now to hear from you. Jonathan e-mails me with this. "We are engaged in a bizarre 21st Century war against outlaws who are 100 percent committed to destroying our way of life. The real issue is how an open democratic society can confront the threat and whether there is the domestic political will to sacrifice individual liberties in favor of collective security needs."

On last week's September 11 hearings in Congress, Chuck writes: "The various statements made by congressional members prior to the hearings clearly demonstrate that they are not seeking facts, but are trying to manipulate the situation for their own political gain."

And Turley (ph) adds this: "Failure to play the blame game is exactly what is wrong with the FBI and the government in general. Incompetent and obstructionist officials are not blamed or disposed of resulting in the problems exemplified by 9-11."

And that's all the time we have today. I'll be back tomorrow 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS' MONEYLINE" begins right now.

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