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American Morning

Discussion About John Gotti's Legacy

Aired June 11, 2002 - 08:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: For a time in the 1980s, John Gotti seemed invincible, almost untouchable. The Dapper Don escaped conviction so many times he became known as Teflon Don, but the feds finally caught up with him in 1992, sending the New York Mafia boss to federal prison for life. And that is where Gotti passed away yesterday. He's dead from cancer at the age of 61. Let's talk more about Gotti's life of crime and his legacy. The author Jerry Capeci wrote several books, including "Gotti, Rise and Fall" and "Mob Star." He's with us this morning.

Jerry, good to see you again. Good morning to you.

JERRY CAPECI, AUTHOR: Good morning.

HEMMER: I've been in New York about three weeks and I tell you, when I hear people talking, they almost treat this man with reverence. Some suggested he was given some sort of treatment like a king. If you look at the "New York Daily News," "The Last Don," this was the image of him, the slick $2,000 suits and the slicked back hair as well.

CAPECI: That's the image that John Gotti put out there and tried to keep out there with the help of his lawyers and other spin doctors in the crime family. Underneath it, obviously, he was a killer, someone who ordered several murders, who took part in the killing of his boss and was able to use that to rise to the top of the Gambino crime family.

HEMMER: Many called him the most important gangster since Al Capone. Is that overstated?

CAPECI: It depends on -- there are several reasons why he was important. You can say he was the most important, perhaps, for the way he thumbed his nose at the arrogance he brought to the scene, to the stage, and the flash and dash that he exhibited. And basically he dared the feds to come and get him, and they took up the challenge and they got him and they got him in part because of his own failings as a Mafia boss.

HEMMER: I wanted you to listen quickly. FBI agent Bruce Mouw commented on the life of John Gotti. He did not mince words. Here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRUCE MOUW, FBI: John Gotti is a stone cold killer, responsible for the deaths of scores of individuals. He's a very vicious and ruthless boss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: You mentioned it. If that's the case, why did so many trials fail to stick to him?

CAPECI: Well, the first case was because he bought a juror. It was in his pocket. He paid $60,000 to one of the jurors who basically convinced the others not to bring in a conviction. The second two cases were state trials and the evidence was not as good as the feds would have put into evidence in a federal trial and one of them, the key witness, basically forgot that he had been slapped around by John Gotti.

HEMMER: You have said that he could have been, had he lived a straight-laced life, he could have been a senator or a CEO?

CAPECI: Well, the point is that he was a politically astute kind of guy, he was bright, he was witty, he had charm, he was politically astute, he knew as an up-and-coming guy in the crime family who he had to pick to help him along the way to kill the boss of the crime family. That's not an easy task. I mean that was, however, the highlight of his Mafia career. I mean, he pulled off a well-executed assassination of Paul Castellano. From then on, even on tape, he said it, I was nothing but a truck hijacker. I was not a sophisticated criminal. He used other guys to help bring in the money and then eventually his own failings helped bring him down.

HEMMER: Quickly. Peter Gotti arrested last week. John Gotti is now dead. What happens to the family?

CAPECI: It is in a state of -- it is in a tattered state, but his death, John Gotti's death, has been expected for some time. So I don't think -- it will be a seamless transition. There won't be any surprises. There should not be any bloodletting or any violence. Depending on what John Gotti wanted will indicate how well attended his funeral is.

HEMMER: Do you get apprehensive writing about this stuff?

CAPECI: John Gotti never threatened me, and neither did any of his associates. They do try to intimidate you a little bit. I had a couple shouting matches, well, not really shouting matches; Gene Gotti was doing all the yelling and I said I'm sorry you feel that way, Gene. But they rarely have gone after the press or law enforcement officials, feeling that it would generate too much heat. And for some -- often they've kind of given me a little bit of grudging respect, because on occasion when the feds turn out to be not so good guys, I was quick to point out that they had their hand in the till, or they were doing things they really shouldn't.

HEMMER: Better you than me. Thank you, Jerry. Good to see you. John Gotti, again, dead yesterday at the age of 61. Back to Paula now.

ZAHN: One of my favorite Jerry stories, Bill, you told me this last week, just the intimidation you'd feel if you were covering a courtroom trial involving a member of these guys would be sitting behind you saying what?

CAPECI: They'd be talking about you in very unflattering terms, and you would just have to sit there and know they were talking about you, but they were really just trying to intimidate you.

HEMMER: Just loud enough for you to hear them, right?

CAPECI: Definitely loud enough. Just loud enough for you to hear them.

ZAHN: That would certainly get our attention. Good luck.

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