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CNN Talkback Live

Is Mercy Killing the Same as Murder?

Aired June 11, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE.

There's been a lot of movement in the search for Elizabeth Smart, the 14-year-old Utah girl kidnapped from her bedroom last week.

Today, Salt Lake detectives say they're refocusing their investigation, telling the unidentified suspect, "We are going to get you."

We'll get to that in just a minute, but first, here's a look at what else is on today's show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(voice-over): John Gotti schemed and murdered his way to the top of organized crime and basked in the media limelight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a pretty important figure here in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a bad guy, but he was an interesting person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's a little overrated. I mean, they're glamorizing him for something he did that wasn't very legitimate.

NEVILLE: With Gotti gone, is there a new face to put on the mob?

Also, a distraught mother kills her sons during an nursing home visit, was it murder or mercy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If God wanted them dead, then he would have killed them himself. That's how I feel about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man, hot dogs and hamburgers, man, she's all that and a Hot Wheel track.

NEVILLE: And we'll talk with Vivica Fox, and Miguel A. Nunez, Jr. about their new comedy and how the fun and games continued after the cameras stopped rolling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OK. We're going to get to those stories a little later. We're going to find out now about those new developments in the search for Elizabeth Smart.

Here's what the police chief in Salt Lake told reporters today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Based on all of our investigation thusfar, we believe that it is possible that we have already talked to or will soon have talked to the suspect responsible for this crime.

We are pulling out all stops. We will continue this. The family continues to be cooperative in every way, and we are encouraged that we will bring a conclusion to this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: OK, covering the investigation in Salt Lake City is CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley.

Frank, what's the latest?

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Arthel, you just heard from the police chief there, and his comments really represent a significant change in the tone of the investigation here into the search for Elizabeth Smart.

As recently as yesterday, detectives were still at least publicly expressing frustration, saying that they had no significant leads that were leading them in the direction of any particular suspect.

Now we are being told that in fact police are narrowing their focus. They do believe they at least have a, quote, "understanding of the suspect." They don't have someone who is named, but this is a pretty significant change in where things stand.

They based their information on a number of things, the investigation that they have been conducting on crime scene analysis. Also, yesterday they re-interviewed the 9-year-old little sister of Elizabeth, Mary Catherine. She was in the room with Elizabeth when the abduction took place.

They do say that she was able to provide some additional details. Last night, investigators were back at the house, looking at the area inside the home, near the abduction. It appeared as though they were using a black light. That suggests that they were checking for signs of any physical evidence left behind. They use a black light and sometimes if there is physical evidence in the form of blood, it will pop up very quickly with they use a chemical to illuminate any of that physical evidence.

So, they are moving in. They are at least, as they put it, narrowing the focus. And as you heard from the chief himself, he said to the suspect very directly, "we will get you" -- Arthel. NEVILLE: Hey, Frank I see a lot of movement behind you. Who are all those people?

BUCKLEY: Well, we are at an area -- it's actually the church where the family attends church, but this has become the volunteer headquarters.

This was also where the news conference took place.

Right now what are you seeing mostly are the volunteers who continue to come out by the hundreds. Yesterday, some 700 or 800, 900 volunteers came out, the day before, some 1,400 volunteers came out. This is where people are coming from all over this state to help out in any way they can.

NEVILLE: OK, Frank, thank you very much for that report.

Joining us now is Candice DeLong. She served as a special FBI agent for 20 years, specializing in child abductions, and she is retired now. Her career is chronicled in her book, "Special Agent: My Life on the Frontlines as a Woman in the FBI."

Thanks for being with us, Candice.

CANDICE DELONG, AUTHOR: My pleasure Arthel.

NEVILLE: What does all of this mean? I mean, do they have a suspect now?

DELONG: Well, what it means is they have done an analysis of everything they know that has happened, and one of the most significant things regarding this case is the method by which Elizabeth was taken.

The offender went into an occupied home in the middle of the night; a very large home -- many, many bedrooms -- at great risk to himself, great risk of disclosure. And yet he was able to pull this off and get Elizabeth, get to her room and get her out of that house.

That, actually, will probably be his undoing. That has told the investigators and the profilers quite a bit about him, and for that reason, I am assuming, and I am thinking that if I were involved in this, I certainly would be thinking the offender had been in the house before.

And so far, they started their investigation, looking at everyone that's been in the house. Imagine like the center of a bull's-eye and going out from there, in terms of anybody close to Elizabeth or the family, to anybody who had access to the house. It is my understanding the house is up for sale. Perhaps anyone that went through the house.

And so that is why they are confident that they have either talked to him or will talk to him, and I do believe that as a result of that, the method by which he took her, this case is going to be solved. NEVILLE: That would be good news, and hopefully if we could get the little girl back safely, would be even more wonderful.

DELONG: Wonderful.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

I understand that the investigators will probably -- they have already done some lie detector tests, like on the father, and maybe some other family members will have to take the test as well. Is this normal?

DELONG: That's routine. Yes, that's absolutely routine. In the vast majority of cases in this country where children are murdered, and I am not saying that that happened to Elizabeth, it does turn out that it was a family member

So it's routine to rule out those that are closest to the missing child first. And then move out from there.

NEVILLE: And Candice, I mean this poor 9-year-old sister who was there, who was told to be quiet or something will happen bad to your sister, something along those lines. A intimidating statement from this person, not just any big adult, but someone with a gun. What do children do in these situations?

DELONG: Well, I worked a similar case like this, back in 1985. An offender grabbed two little girls that were out on a country road. He through one in a car and said, "you stay there,' and he went back to get the other.

The one that was in the car scrambled out and ran and hid behind a tractor, and she ran home and told what happened. But that was a little bit different circumstances. She had been alone. She ran home.

In this particular case, Mary Catherine was threatened with a gun in the middle of the night by the offender. It's my understanding he said words to the effect of "If you tell anyone, I will kill your sister." Has to be completely terrifying, and it certainly sounds like it just paralyzed her with fear.

NEVILLE: But in situations similar, should kids scream? Should they...

DELONG: Well, there is a lot that I think people can do. People need to sit down and talk with their children about, you know, worst case scenarios -- what should I do if.

And there have been children that did save their own lives because their parents told them, scream, yell, yell mommy, daddy, fire, something that will attract attention. If they are grabbed outside, I told my son, pardon me, when he was young, if anybody grabs you, whether it's in the house or outside, and they say do as I say and I won't hurt you, or get in my car and I won't not hurt you -- this is something that you want to avoid. You want to avoid going with the offender. You want to avoid leaving the house, avoid getting into the car, and do anything you can to draw attention so that somebody can help you.

We don't need to sit in our homes praying for 25 years that nobody comes in and takes our children. We need to sit down and talk with our children -- "OK, honey, this is what you do it you wake up and somebody is in your room in the middle of the night with a gun."

Can I guarantee that if a potential victim fights and yells and screams that they won't be hurt? No. Nobody can do that. But I can pretty much guarantee, if a child is removed from a home or the offender is successful getting them in a car, it's probably not going to have a happy ending.

NEVILLE: Candice DeLong, thank you very much for being with us today on TALKBACK LIVE.

DELONG: My pleasure.

NEVILLE: We have to take a break right now. When we come back, a Georgia mom apparently kills her own son -- was it mercy or murder? We'll talk about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.

If you had loved ones who were dying and in pain without hope of a cure, what would you do? What if they thought they were begging you to kill them?

Carol Carr, a Georgia woman, apparently faced that dilemma and killed her two sons. She is now charged with malice murder.

Were the killings malice or mercy? Maybe this report from Mirtha Bakja (ph) at an affiliate station, WAJA in Atlanta, will help you decide.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIRTHA BAKJA (ph), WAJA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this Spalding County courtroom, words of despair from a mother to a son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart broke, I mean -- you know, when she walked in and the first thing she said was "I'm sorry," you know, I mean, I don't know what to say.

BAKJA (ph): 63-year-old Carol Carr faces two counts of felony murder.

On Saturday night, she walked into the SunBridge Care and Rehabilitation Center and shot her two sons with a small caliber pistol. They were both in the late stages of Huntington's disease.

Her youngest son, 38-year-old James Scott (ph), also suffers from the illness.

JAMES SCOTT (ph), BROTHER/SON: It's been on my mind for years and years. I just don't know what to say about it. You just have to take every day by every day.

BAKJA (ph): Now he could possibly face his own fight with the disease alone.

(on camera): Can you explain how difficult the disease has been on your family?

SCOTT (ph): Pretty bad. It's a bad hardship. We have to deal with it for a long time.

BAKJA (ph) (voice-over): During her court appearance, Carr did not appear to understand when the judge was saying to her. She did not have an attorney present.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand your rights Ms. Carr? Do you understand your rights?

CAROL CARR, ACCUSED OF KILLING SONS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BAKJA (ph) (voice-over): The Scott family has lived with Huntington's for nearly four decades.

James' father, pictured here, died from the disease and his brothers were in the late stages of their bout with the illness.

Carol Carr cared for all of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was going through a lot, and she would say, I just don't know which direction I go.

BAKJA (ph) (on camera): Is there anything that you want to say to your mom right now, if she is watching this on television?

SCOTT (ph): We're all with you right now and miss you, hope she is OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE: OK. Joining us now to talk about this case are Rabbi J. David Bleich, a medical ethicist and professor at Yeshiva University. He is the author of several books, including "Time of Death in Jewish Law."

Also with us is Barbara Boyle, director and CEO of the Huntington's Disease Society of America.

We'd like to welcome both of you to the show.

And, Ms. Boyle, why don't we, before we go any further -- if you could go ahead and help us understand, or describe for us -- what is Huntington's disease? Explain it, and what does it do to the body? BARBARA BOYLE, HUNTINGTON DISEASE SOCIETY OF AMERICA: Huntington's disease is a disease that effects 30,000 people in the United States today. And there are 250,000 at risk for inheriting this disease.

It is a disease that robs the mind, the body, of the ability to think, to reason, to walk, and to be able to live as a normal human being.

It's a disease that goes over a period of 15 years. It usually effects the person between the ages of 30 and 40. And it usually ends in death in a nursing home, 15 to 20 years after the start.

It is a disease that takes tremendous toll upon the family. The caretaker has to care for the individual, from the early onset of HD until the final death process.

This is a horrendous disease, and one thing that this brought to the forefront is our need to be able to raise the dollars...

NEVILLE: OK. Before you -- please excuse me. Before you go on, because I am going to ask you to paint for us a graphic picture of what this disease does to the body.

Apparently, these two sons were living in such horrible conditions, I understand they were paralyzed -- you tell me. But give us this, because we need to understand what drove this woman to doing this.

BOYLE: Well, they can't walk. They are physically incapacitated. At the end, they can't eat, and they have a very hard time if at all being able to communicate with another human.

So all a of their body care needs to be taken care of by another human being. And it is the career or the movement of the end, is very painful for an individual to have to go through.

It's very frustrating, because they do want to communicate, but they cannot communicate with another human being, and they try so hard.

NEVILLE: So they can think and understand perhaps, what one may be trying to say to them, but they cannot respond?

BOYLE: Right. Yes, that is very true. And they try, very, very hard.

NEVILLE: Rabbi Bleich, I want to bring you in now, and ask you, so -- having heard all of this, was this murder or a mercy killing?

RABBI J. DAVID BLEICH, AUTHOR: A mercy killing is murder. It may be merciful in the eyes of the person that commits the acts, but euthanasia is precisely that.

It is an act of homicide which is performed for what in the perpetrator's mind is altruistic purposes. There is very little question that in this situation in particular, and indeed with Huntington's in general, the frustration quotient is very, very high, and one can understand the frustration, but that does not render the act of homicide a moral act.

NEVILLE: Barbara Boyle, in your opinion is this a mercy killing or a murder?

BOYLE: You know, I'm not qualified to say. All I can say is that for the family and the individual mother, our heart goes out with a great deal of sympathy and prayer.

NEVILLE: I'm going to get -- is it -- stand up for me, Bobby (ph), sorry.

BOBBY: I have a question for Barbara Boyle.

At the last stages -- both boys was in the very last stages of their sickness. How much longer could they have lived if their mother had not ended their lives?

BOYLE: You know what, I really don't know. I don't know the boys individually, and I don't know at what particular part their life expectancy they were.

I know that they were in end-stage but only God can answer that question, about how long they had to live.

NEVILLE: OK. We have to take a break right now, you have been listening to this discussion at home.

God forbid, if you were in this situation, but what would you do? Or what do you think about what Ms. Carr did? I want to hear what you think.

TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.

We're talking about the case of Carol Carr, a 63-year-old Georgia woman who killed her two sons who were suffering from Huntington's disease.

Apparently, Ms. Carr couldn't stand to see her sons live in this condition anymore, and we're talking about whether or not this was a mercy killing or a murder.

And I know I have Ed (ph) standing by on the phone from New York. Ed (ph), what do you say about this?

ED: I say that nobody has the right to kill anyone, and especially your own children. I mean, obviously this woman is despondent over what is going on in her life and with her children. But like the one person said, only God has that right, nobody else. NEVILLE: OK, Ed, thank you very much.

Rabbi Bleich, I would like to ask you: do you think we need assisted suicide laws?

BLEICH: If by assisted suicide laws you mean laws that would make it possible to assist in suicide, I think that the answer is no.

We, as a society, recognize that suicide is an act of violence. We do not condone acts of violence. We do not condone consensual murder. We have even outlawed dueling. And taking one's own life is taking a human life.

NEVILLE: What if these two sons had signed a living will that said -- that gave their mother, or someone, their guardian, permission to end their lives at a certain point? They knew they had this disease. They saw their father die from this disease.

BLEICH: That is tantamount to assisted suicide. Assisted suicide is illegal, and rightly so. We have long recognized that suicide is simply another form of homicide.

There is every reason to sympathize with these people, and particularly with the mother. We, as a society, have obligations to people who suffer from diseases such as Huntington's, and among those obligations is the obligation to seek a cure, to do whatever is possible, in terms of scientific research. Also to provide palliative care, to do whatever is possible insofar as elimination of pain is concerned.

And it's important to remember that insofar as patients are concerned, there are very, very few instances of medicine in which pain cannot be controlled.

NEVILLE: Well, let me ask -- let me -- I've got -- actually, I have an interesting caller now I want to bring in on this conversation. It's Tanya (ph). Tanya (ph), go ahead. You're live from -- where are you calling from?

TANYA: Locust Grove, Georgia. I live 30 miles from Griffin, very close to where Ms. Carr lives.

My father was diagnosed with Huntington's about 15, 16 years ago, and my mother took care of him at home. She -- our family went through what they call -- we went through a lot of hell. It is very distraught for the family.

It's very time-consuming, because you have to take care of this person one-on-one. And my mother was the strongest person that I have ever known, to take care of my father. And he passed away two years ago, and my sister called me the other day and told me what had happened, from -- in Griffin, and it hit us home, because we are so close and we know what is going on.

We know what this woman has went through.

NEVILLE: Tanya (ph), let me ask you this: how do you feel about Ms. Carr's actions?

TANYA: Well, I know what my father went through, and I know he suffered a lot. But I just don't -- excuse me.

I feel sorry for her, I do, bless her heart. She went through a lot. Our whole family, my father's youngest sister, has just been diagnose with the it. His father had it. He's got another sister that has it.

There's 9 kids, and it's just -- you've got to be a strong family. You really do. You have to be a strong family. And I feel so sorry for this lady, I really do. She -- you know, she has gone through a lot.

NEVILLE: Right. And, apparently, your family did as well.

TANYA: Yes, ma'am.

NEVILLE: And I thank you very much for calling us here and sharing your story.

TANYA: Thank you.

NEVILLE: And, Barbara Boyle, I want to ask you. Is there any new treatment on the horizon that could help ease the pain or even cure this disease?

BOYLE: There are medications, as the Rabbi has said, that does take care of some of the pain. And we are working very hard at the Huntington's Disease Society of America to try to find the answers to Huntington's disease.

We feel that, with the right investment of dollars, we can come up with treatments that perhaps will delay and also slow down the effects of Huntington's disease. And that is our hope for the future. And we will keep trying, because we have our families out there, that we have an obligation to. And God love them. They do go through tremendous, tremendous anxiety and tremendous opportunity for taking care of their loved ones. That takes a tremendous toll on all the families.

NEVILLE: Absolutely.

Barbara Boyle and David Bleich, thank you very much for being with us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.

OK, stay with us, everybody. We will continue after this break, more TALKBACK LIVE. We are going to talk about the death of John Gotti, what it means for the mob. And Vivica A. Fox and Miguel A. Nunez Jr. will be here.

We'll be back in a moment.

Coming up on TALKBACK LIVE: Crime boss John Gotti, "Don Con," and now he is gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all pretty much forgot about him anyway. No offense, John. He was a thug. And now is he is dead. So I guess he beat the system, because he didn't serve life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: But is organized crime alive and well? We'll look at mob families and crime syndicates right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody.

John Gotti was the "Teflon Don" as long as the charges didn't stick. He was a criminal celebrity glamorized by the media, the head of a powerful crime syndicate. Well, now John Gotti is dead. His son, John Jr., is in jail. And a brother is under indictment. Just how healthy is the Italian mafia?

Here to talk about it is Abraham Abramovsky, professor of international criminal law at Fordham University School of Law. He teaches courses in organized crime.

Welcome, Professor.

ABRAHAM ABRAMOVSKY, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: Thank you. Nice to be here.

NEVILLE: All right, well, good.

Here's the question for you. Now that Gotti is gone, is the mob dead?

ABRAMOVSKY: No, I don't believe so. I believe the mob has lasted a long time prior to the arrival of John Gotti. And I believe that it will last a lot longer after his death.

NEVILLE: Really? So, what does the modern-day mob do?

ABRAMOVSKY: I think what the modern day mob does is what it always used to do. It supplies services that people in our country want that they cannot get on the legitimate market.

NEVILLE: OK, wait. Hold up. Services, professor, services. What kind of services are we talking about here?

ABRAMOVSKY: Well, I would say gambling, prostitution, and loans, because, unlike banks, you don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you don't need the money in order for the banks to lend it to you.

NEVILLE: Well, OK, there's a concept.

Let's talk about the old-school mob. Why is it that people are so fascinated by this? ABRAMOVSKY: Well, they are fascinated because it's renegade figures. It's figures that don't have to toe the line and don't toe the line. And, sometimes, you know, some of us don't want to toe the line ourselves.

NEVILLE: You know, we have some people here in the audience. And we were talking about this whole John Gotti mob story here before we came back to talk to you. And everybody was just talking about the different things that they did, a lot of heinous crimes, right? So, how is it that Hollywood can glamorize this stuff?

ABRAMOVSKY: Well, the fact is, Hollywood glamorizes whatever pays. And the history has shown that crime, at least in Hollywood, pays.

NEVILLE: Yes, but how good, how accurate is Hollywood when they depict the mob?

ABRAMOVSKY: I don't think they are too accurate. They don't show you the sleepless nights. They don't show you the fact that you look over your shoulder at all times, that your best friend can end your life at any minute.

NEVILLE: And everybody watches "The Sopranos" on Sunday nights. What about that show? Is it good? Is it accurate?

ABRAMOVSKY: It's a good show. It's the best of all of them.

NEVILLE: Do you watch it?

ABRAMOVSKY: I watch it on occasion.

NEVILLE: Is that an assignment for your students?

ABRAMOVSKY: Not yet, but we will see -- maybe after this show.

NEVILLE: I think it should be, Professor.

(LAUGHTER)

ABRAMOVSKY: OK.

NEVILLE: I have -- how do you say your name?

MAHATI (ph): Mahati.

NEVILLE: And what do you have to say?

MAHATI: I don't know whether the influence of the mob has diminished or not, but I know that the romance and the glamour associated with the mob will always live on.

NEVILLE: Yes. What do you like about it? When you watch mob movies, what do you like to see?

MAHATI: They are always in tuxes with, like, little bodyguards walking next to them. And it is just exciting.

NEVILLE: Now, you know, I just want to let you know, before you get any ideas, you can wear some glamorous clothes and get yourself a bodyguard. You don't have to get into the mob, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

MAHATI: Yes.

NEVILLE: Just remember that. All right.

All right, Professor, I wanted to -- if you would, tell me a little bit more about "Dapper Don."

ABRAMOVSKY: All right.

Dapper Don was an interesting figure. He basically disobeyed the rules of his own organization, having arranged for the killing of his predecessor. He then went on to rule with a strong hand. However, the fact that he insisted that everyone pay him respect at all times partially caused the demise of his family.

NEVILLE: And Dapper Don certainly don't run from the cameras. In fact, he ran to the cameras. And...

ABRAMOVSKY: Well, he...

NEVILLE: Go ahead.

ABRAMOVSKY: Well, he was photogenic. That's for sure. And the cameras liked him. The reporters liked him. And many of the people wanted to hear what he had to say.

NEVILLE: Which is no surprise that, what, there is so much coverage now surrounding his death.

ABRAMOVSKY: Yes. That's right.

NEVILLE: And here we are talking about it.

ABRAMOVSKY: Absolutely.

NEVILLE: I have got Mike here from Pennsylvania.

MIKE: This whole talk of, "Is the Mafia dead because of John Gotti?" I think John Gotti just publicized it, and I don't think they ever really wanted that, because they are an underground organization. So I think, now that he is out of the limelight, they can get back to business as usual and probably start building it back to where it was before he tainted it.

ABRAMOVSKY: I think you're right, Mike.

And not only do we have Italian organized crime today to deal with, but we have various groups engaged in organized crime. You have people from Colombia, people from Mexico, people from Russia, people from Nigeria, people from Israel. There's many, many new groups and new competition on the block.

NEVILLE: But is there, like, some big leader like John Gotti these days?

ABRAMOVSKY: Not as charismatic, but there are leaders of great significance, both in the traditional mob and in the competing ethnic mobs.

NEVILLE: You know, professor, I think that you should take my advice and go ahead and add "The Sopranos" to this required TV viewing, OK?

ABRAMOVSKY: And not only that, but we are going to invite you to Fordham Law School and you could host it along with me.

NEVILLE: I would love that.

ABRAMOVSKY: OK.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much, Professor, for being here with us today.

ABRAMOVSKY: My pleasure.

NEVILLE: And when he would come back, we are going to shift gears. Up next: Vivica A. Fox and Miguel A. Nunez Jr. Arthel A. Neville? OK, not an A. But, anyway, we're going to find out what cracked them up when they were filming their new movie, "Juwanna Mann"?

There they are.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Oh, boy, we have some company now.

Welcome back, everybody. And say hello to Vivica A. Fox...

VIVICA A. FOX, ACTRESS: Hello.

NEVILLE: ... and Miguel Nunez Jr.

MIGUEL NUNEZ JR., ACTOR: Hello.

NEVILLE: They star in the soon-to-be-released comedy "Juwanna Mann" -- Juwanna Mann" -- the story of a bad-boy basketball player who poses as a woman to join a women's league. And then -- wow, there are lots of endless possibilities in this movie, right? The movie is a Warner Brothers film, which is owned by AOL Time Warner, CNN's parent company. Want to let you know all that.

NUNEZ: Plug.

FOX: Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you, sister.

NEVILLE: Let's talk. It's so good to see both of you. Absolutely.

Now, what I want to know, though -- because, I would imagine that, when you are filming this kind of movie, you are cracking each other up behind the scenes. That's what I want to know about. Tell me some of those moments, something that

(CROSSTALK)

NUNEZ: Twenty-four/7.

I guess that Tommy Davidson was the biggest crack-up. He will crack you up 24/7.

FOX: He plays Puff Smokey Smoke. And he is falling for Juwanna. And Juwanna has fallen for Michelle, because, of course, he's Jamal, this arrogant basketball player who gets kicked out and loses all of his riches. And the only way that he can make money is to come and play with the girls. So, that is where my character comes involved. And Puff Smokey Smoke totally fell for him.

NEVILLE: Puff Smokey Smoke.

FOX: Puff Smokey Smoke totally fell for Juwanna. And there were just some hilarious bits in there that they just let Tommy go. And he is just a genius. He really is.

NEVILLE: OK, now, I want to hear more from you. But let's let them, the audience, see a clip from a movie right now.

NUNEZ: OK, cool.

FOX: All right, check it out, you all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "JUWANNA MANN")

NUNEZ: A bottle of your best champagne for the table.

TOMMY DAVIDSON, ACTOR: Yes, yes, yes. Bet that. And some strawberries and some shrimp cocktail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have we decided on dinner or do you need some more time?

NUNEZ: No, no, don't need no more time.

DAVIDSON: Ah, ah, ah. Stymie that. That's where you're going country.

The young lady wants a filet mignon, you know, a little hunk of meat, a little peak on the inside. Filet mignon, how you like it? How do you like it?

FOX: I will have the -- I will have the snapper.

DAVIDSON: Girl, you on fire tonight. I like it, though. I like it like that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

FOX: Good, huh?

NEVILLE: That was Tommy Davidson, by the way, everybody. And there is Miguel in drag.

FOX: In drag.

NEVILLE: That is funny.

So, now, you must have newfound respect for women.

NUNEZ: Mad respect.

NEVILLE: Wearing the whole high heels and all this stuff.

NUNEZ: I would tell my wife: "Well, why does it take you this long to get dressed? No woman takes this long to get dressed." But I'll tell you what. Now I know why women have to pluck, tuck, tweeze. And I say right now: Men, let them take all the time they want, because, if they don't, you're going to have a harry monster.

FOX: Watch out.

NEVILLE: Now, we are going to talk more about "Juwanna Mann," but I want to make sure to get this in here before I let you leave.

What are you working on next, Vivica?

FOX: Well, I just got back from China on Friday. I have been learning Tae Kwon Do for Quentin Tarantino's next movie, co-starring myself, Uma Thurman, Daryl Hannah, Lucy Liu, David Carradine. And it is called "Kill Bill." And that will be in theaters 2003. I play a female assassin.

NEVILLE: But you weren't just studying Tae Kwon Do. We are talking about, what, 9:00 to 5:00 every day?

FOX: Yes. We were working out.

NUNEZ: Don't she look fit?

FOX: It's the hardest I have ever worked in a movie.

Thank you, child. I'm glad to know it's working.

NEVILLE: You do look good.

FOX: But it was the hardest I have ever had to work. And now we are actually in Beijing in China. And, yes, we're still working out there, too.

NEVILLE: Oh, good. FOX: But Uma Thurman is going to blow you guys away, as well as the other ladies as well. It's going to be good. It is definitely a tough-chick movie.

NEVILLE: OK, well, I will look forward to that.

FOX: Thank you.

NEVILLE: Now, Miguel, you are a working man as well.

NUNEZ: I'm blessed. I can't complain.

NEVILLE: What are you working on now?

NUNEZ: Well, I just finished -- I got "Scooby Doo" coming out this Friday. So, make sure you go see it. If you got kids, take them to go see it -- and then August the 8th, "Pluto Nash" with Eddie Murphy.

NEVILLE: Well, I'm so proud of both of you.

FOX: Child, we're working.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Can you all take me to dinner later? No, I'm just kidding.

(CROSSTALK)

NUNEZ: Yes, we'll take you to dinner. We will take you to Houston's.

FOX: Yes. Hey.

NEVILLE: Let's get back to -- I don't want to hog this conversation, guys. So, if anybody has a question or so, let me know.

I do have a caller. Actually, Ivy is calling in -- oh, Ozzy.

Is this Ozzy Osbourne?

CALLER: This is Ozzy, yes.

NUNEZ: Ozzy Osbourne?

CALLER: Yes, actually, that is where my nickname comes from.

FOX: Oh, OK.

CALLER: Many years ago.

I have a question for Mr. Nunez.

In light of recent events, how Halle and Denzel won those Academy Awards -- I am assuming you are an Hispanic actor, by your name. Do you think, with these new opportunities opening up, that you or other Hispanic actors will actually get to play

(CROSSTALK)

FOX: He's black, Ozzy.

NUNEZ: I'm black, Ozzy.

Yes. absolutely. I think it is opening up for everybody. We still have a long way to go, but it is opening up for Latins, I think, with Jennifer Lopez. And, I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunities. I mean, we have a long way to go.

FOX: Absolutely.

NUNEZ: But we have made a lot of progress. And I think it is going to open up more as we go on. All we have to do is just keep working, keep doing good work, people keep supporting the films. And then Hollywood will see that the films make money. And the best way to make sure that more people -- that you have more of your film, is to support the films that are coming out.

NEVILLE: Miguel, I am going to have to interrupt you, because...

NUNEZ: OK, go ahead, Arthel. It's your show.

NEVILLE: I'm sorry. I have to toss to Kyra Phillips, who is standing by in the newsroom with some breaking news.

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