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CNN Live Today

Interview with John Cornwell

Aired June 12, 2002 - 14:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: One seasoned observer of the Catholic Church and its various scandals says the issue of priests and sex comes down to responsibility, maturity and power.

John Cornwell directs the Science and Human Dimension project at Cambridge University. He's also written a number of books, including "Hitler's Hope" and "Breaking Faith: Can the Catholic Church Save Itself?" He joins us from London.

John, I'll get right to it. You have quite a history here with the Catholic Church. You left the Church and then you came back. Give us a little bit of your personal story.

JOHN CORNWELL, SCIENCE & HUMAN DIMENSION PROJECT, CAMBRIDGE UNIV: Yes, I studied to be a priest for seven years. At the time when I began, they took early teenagers. I was 13 when I began. And I came out in my early 20s.

PHILLIPS: Why did you leave? And then why did you return?

CORNWELL: Well, I left the priesthood because I simply didn't feel that I was of sufficient maturity to become a priest. I then left the Church. And then I came back to the Church after 20 years. And I'm now a very confirmed Catholic.

And I have to say straight away about the priesthood, that I think there are a great many wonderful men and very heroic men, but the Church really is in very deep trouble, as I hope I point out in my book.

PHILLIPS: You also point out, in your book, the strengths upon which it can draw to survive. Let's talk about those strengths.

CORNWELL: Well, I think that the -- what I really need to say about, you know, the meetings in Dallas, is that the bishops themselves are divided and the church is divided. And that is its great weakness. It's divided between a conservative wing on the one hand and, on the other, a more progressive wing.

And what worries me very deeply about the meeting in Dallas is that it's not going to address the underlying causes. It's addressing really the sanctions against the perpetrators. And I think the church does have the resources, does have the strength, to put right these wrongs. But they're very profound. And I think that unfortunately, the conservative wing, which includes many of the bishops, have identified homosexuality as the cause. And I think that that's a very grave mistake. And it's going to lead, I think, to much suffering and further division in the church.

PHILLIPS: So if you were in charge of deciding how the policy was going to be made, what are the underlying causes that you're talking about? What would you advise? What would be your advice?

CORNWELL: Well, I think that it's really a question of how we recruit and how we train and educate people towards deeper maturity. Unfortunately, the institutionalized clericalism within the church means that people who are fragmented, people who are insecure, people who are immature, actually can be attracted to the priesthood because of the office itself.

In other words, people will look up to a priest, not because of what he really is, but because of what his office signifies. And this means that weaker, insecure people will enter into relationships of unequal power, which is fundamentally what it's really all about, you know, in the final analysis.

And so we've got to get to, you know, the root of this clericalism and try to encourage bishops and those who are in charge of recruiting for the priesthood and training for the priesthood, to a different way of doing things.

I mean, at the moment, it's an extremely monastic kind of training in which people are cut off, in which they can appear to be more holy than they actually are. Whereas I think what is badly needed is on the job training, and a greater involvement of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

PHILLIPS: And, as you talk about recruiting, it will be interesting to follow the election of the next pope. John Cornwell from London, thank you very much.

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