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Catholic Bishops Meet in Dallas, Texas

Aired June 13, 2002 - 12:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: First this hour, the bishops are meeting in Dallas, and their mission is clear: adopt zero tolerance to sexual misconduct, or risk further damage to the church's moral leadership. CNN's Leon Harris is in Dallas and he's following the conference -- hi there, Leon.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Fredricka.

Yes, as a matter of fact, what we have been listening to in the last half-hour or so have been comments from lay people directly to the conference of bishops here about the damage and their vision of it and what they see as a devastation of the church's credibility. And in the words of some of them, the faith of those who were followers of the church has been shaken, and perhaps in the eyes of some, irreparably.

We're joined here this morning -- throughout the morning here -- by Father Thomas Reese, who has been helping us to analyze all these comments that we've been hearing. Give us your view of what you think have been the highlights (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

REV. THOMAS REESE, "AMERICA" MAGAZINE: Well, what struck me this morning, first of all, was the speech of Bishop Gregory. I mean, I have never heard the bishops apologize as well as he did this time.

HARRIS: Or as often.

REESE: Or as often. And admitting, you know, that we are part of the problem. That we, the bishops, you know, that we did not report this as crime. We were more interested in covering up scandal, that we did not do the right thing.

This is very important, their admission of guilt. You know if you go to confession, the first thing you got to do is admit you sinned and admit that you are guilty. And I think that finally, the bishops are taking a Catholic approach to this problem rather than a legal one. They're starting to listen to their own theology rather than listening to the lawyers.

No more of this "mistakes were made." We made mistakes. I think that is so important.

HARRIS: Well, they're also listening, as you said, to the lay people right now, who are giving them a very hard look in the mirror. REESE: Absolutely. I mean, the lay people are expressing their outrage. They're saying that they feel powerless to deal with this crisis. You know, this is happening to their church. They feel ownership to this Church and yet they have no way of expressing their outrage or making sure that this doesn't happen again.

They feel that the church is being run by this clerical club, this all male establishment that's protecting its own. And they say it cannot continue, it cannot go on. Women's voices have to be heard, lay voices have to be heard, so that this kind of crisis does not happen again.

HARRIS: One of the things I want to also bring up is a metaphor that we also heard one of the presenters give about a dam being broken and the reservoir trust has been emptied.

REESE: I think that is true. So many people have become alienated from the bishops. I mean, academics are upset about censorship that's been going on. Women have been upset about the sexist language in the liturgy and being denied ordination.

Married couples are tired of being told how to live their lives. People in ecumenical marriages, where one of the spouses cannot go to communion in the church. Conservatives are mad at the church because it's telling them that capital punishment is wrong.

There is lots of anger that has coalesced around this one issue, where the bishops are being hit from all sides, and the people are saying, we ant to be heard. And if the bishops are going restore credibility, they have to do as much listening or more listening than they do talking.

HARRIS: Well, Jason Carroll, our correspondent who has been covering this crisis for months now, is here, and he has also been listening as well.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bishop Gregory I think gave a very candid speech. I think at some points it sounded more like a confession, at some points, rather than just a speech. He said at certain points that the Church did not go far enough to protect children. Also saying that he was worried that the Church spent more time trying to way about scandal, rather than worrying about the openness of trying to -- trying to avert some sort of a scandal.

He also, at one point, asked for forgiveness, saying that the Church did not do enough to protect the crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP WILTON GREGORY, PRESIDENT, USCCB: Both what we have done and what we have failed to do contributed to the sexual abuse of children and young people by clergy and church personnel. Moreover, our God-given duty as shepherds of the lord's people holds us responsible and accountable to god and to the church for the spiritual and moral health of all god's children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Now that's an interesting point there. You heard Bishop Gregory talking about accountability there during that speech. However, there is nothing, at least nothing so far in this current proposal that the bishops are running at looking at, in terms of accountability for the bishops. In other words, how in the world do you sanction or punish a bishop that chooses not to follow the mandatory policy that they're going to end up adopting?

A little while ago, Dr. Scott Appleby from Notre Dame University addressed the bishops who were sitting there. Take a listen at what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROF. SCOTT APPLEBY, NOTRE DAME UNIVERSITY: Everyone is relieved that a national policy will be deliberated and adopted at this meeting. But will that policy have teeth? Will it be enforceable and enforced?

In the current climate, it will not be enough to say that no bishop would refuse to implement the new policies. Each bishop must be held directly accountable and his diocese evaluated for compliance on a regular basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Another thorny issue that the bishops are going to have to be dealing with, of course, and that is the issue of zero tolerance. The committee on sexual abuse did meet late into the evening last night, trying to come up with a better policy to present to the bishops.

Critics say that the current policy simply is not strong enough, simply because it allows -- it allows for zero-tolerance for future cases of those priests who are accused of sexual abuse, but it really leaves the doors open for past offenders. But a source within the church telling me that this committee has come up with a way to strengthen the stance on past offenders, basically changing the draft so that one-time offenders would be permanently removed from the priesthood, which basically means they would not be able to call themselves a priest, they would not be able to perform any priestly duties, would not be able to wear the collar. This falls somewhat short of being officially laicized or defrocked, and that's something that's got to happen really for the Vatican.

One other closing point, we've heard a lot of these words before. Even though these words that we heard today were definitely heartfelt, I think in terms of what the victims are looking for is they are looking for action. So it will be interesting to see what happens throughout the day, and also tomorrow, when we end up getting a look at this final policy.

HARRIS: Well, it certainly sounded as though Bishop Gregory threw down the gauntlet. And by holding everyone accountable and by saying the words the way that he did, encouraging those out there who have not come forward to this point with any allegations of abuse, encouraging them to come forward to their bishops, as well as to civil authorities, he through the door wide open. And it seems as if there's no cover anywhere now. So bishops are going to have to be held accountable at some point.

CARROLL: Yeah, absolutely. But the question, again, is how? How do we hold the bishop accountable if there is no language in this current policy that dictates exactly how you sanction a bishop. And quite frankly -- and maybe, father, you can correct me if I'm wrong on this. But the only way that a bishop can be officially sanctioned or punished is through the Vatican, is it not?

REESE: That's right. I mean, the only person who can demand a bishop's resignation is the pope. And clearly there are a lot of people -- this is an unusual circumstance where both conservative and liberal Catholics are angry at the bishops and calling for their resignations.

This conference, this body, doesn't have the power, doesn't have the authority to demand a resignation from a bishop. They can only ask the pope to do that. So we'll have to see how they handle this problem.

HARRIS: And the Vatican would have to speak up if any priest is to be defrocked as well. What do you make of the distinction here that Jason is reporting about this idea of a permanent suspension being offered as something of a middle ground between defrocking and perhaps allowing the priest to continue to operate?

REESE: Well, I think the most important thing is that any priest who is a danger to young people, to minors, is going to be out of ministry, whether he's suspended or whether he's defrocked and laicized. In some ways, people argue -- some people argue that we would be better off suspending them, so there would be some supervision over them by the Church to keep them out of trouble.

If we throw them out on the street, well, then the Church no longer has any supervisory role over these guys. And it's up to society at large, whatever, to worry about them. Now on the other hand, some bishops are worried, I don't want to be responsible for supervising. So there's a division within the bishops themselves. Some of them want to simply throw them out, others want to, OK, keep them, but keep them under control and do not allow them in the ministry.

So this is a tough question. What is the best way to handle this for the good of everybody?

HARRIS: Also and one more fundamental. And that is, we still don't know how many priests may actually be in that particular situation anyway. And from what you heard this morning from Bishop Gregory, do you believe there's a sense here now that the church is going to be more cooperative and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and maybe divulging some information?

CARROLL: Again, that's another thorny issue, because each -- the way I understand it, each diocese operates as an independent entity, so unless you put something formally in writing in terms of mandating that all arch dioceses across the country open up their books, I just do not see how that can happen.

REESE: Well, I think one thing they can do, they can't force them to do it, but what they can do is, as Scott Appleby suggests and is part of the charter, that you have an office that reports whether bishops are on board and doing this. In other words, the charter can ask them to voluntarily do this. And if they don't do it, we're going to tell everybody they are not doing it. And then the media in their diocese, and the people in the diocese, will know about it.

Now there are some other problems about, you know, are you going to simply open up the files on every priest in the country? I mean, you know, priests have a right to privacy too. I mean, clearly, anyone who has been accused, then we have to examine their files, they have -- the accusations to be presented to the police. But, frankly, I mean, I don't want somebody going through my files. But you know I haven't been accused.

So there are lots of very good priests out there, and I think that their privacy needs to be protected. But, frankly, if it is choice between protecting children, and protecting my right of privacy, I will give up my right of privacy. You can see my files, they are boring.

HARRIS: Glad to hear that.

REESE: So I can -- and I think a lot of priests feel the same way. But I think if the accountability to the people -- this is going to be publicized: how well bishops perform implementing this charter in the recommendations. That is the big difference from ten years ago. Ten years ago they had lots of guidelines and recommendations, but there was no accountability. There was going to be no reporting on whether a bishop followed the guidelines or not. I think that is a very important difference.

If this had been in a place in the mid 80s, we would not be here today with these problems.

HARRIS: Yes. This is very interesting. And this is also very clear why this has been such a difficult process and why it's been so tough to get to this particular point.

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