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CNN Talkback Live

Catholic Church Faces Subject of Gay Priests, Did Peter Jennings Cancel Toby Keith's Gig?; A Doctor Says Reports of Elvis' Death are Exxagerated

Aired June 13, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.

In just a minute, we'll check in with the Catholic bishops conference in Dallas. Then, we're going to talk about homosexuals in the Catholic priesthood. Do gay priests have anything to do with the current scandal?

We're talking about that sex scandal. We want to hear from you, especially if you are Catholic. Call me: 1-800-310-4CNN, or e-mail talkback@cnn.com.

Now, here's a look at what we're talking about today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Catholic bishops open their conference with a public confession.

BISHOP WILTON GREGORY: We are the ones who allowed priest abusers to remain in ministry and reassigned them. We are the ones who chose not to report the criminal actions of priests to the authorities. We are the ones who worried more about the possibility of scandal, than bringing about the kind of openness that helps prevent abuse.

NEVILLE: But is there another issue the bishops aren't addressing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But as soon as you bring up the aspect of homosexuality, everybody starts freaking out about it.

NEVILLE: Also, country singer Toby Keith says he has been booted from ABC's 4th of July special.

(MUSIC)

NEVILLE: Did this new single strike a sour note with Peter Jennings?

And Elvis is dead, but is it possible he hasn't left the building? Meet a doctor who claims Elvis Presley is alive and well, and says he can prove it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(on camera): Oh, boy. OK, well, we're going to start first with the Catholic bishops conference in Dallas, where the president of the conference apologized to victims, and asked for forgiveness.

CNN's Dallas bureau chief Ed Lavandera is covering the conference, and Ed, has this been sort of a morning of mending emotional fences?

ED LAVENDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think clearly what's happening in Dallas is that the bishops realized exactly the intense microscope they're underneath here, these next two days, and that the entire world, the international community as well, is watching what they are doing.

It was also a very emotional moment, as the bishops apologize for their actions and also pointed out that it is their turn to confess. And those bishops also heard directly from four victims, that spoke to them.

Two-hundred eighty-five bishops here in Dallas listening to the four victims directly. A very emotional moment for those people. And, as you might imagine, very difficult for them to talk about what they've gone through over the course of the last two to three decades.

NEVILLE: Right, Ed, and of course, a sorry or an apology doesn't make it all go away, but it makes things go better. And I understand that's what a lot of the victims were saying, that no one even came out to say a simple I'm sorry and how are you during their whole ordeal.

LAVENDERA: Well, obviously, these victims want them to go beyond talking.

One of them, in a press conference yesterday, said that talk is cheap, and that is exactly the way a lot of these folks feel.

So what will happen here over the next two days is the bishops will debate the details and the finer points of a sexual abuse policy. What will happen in the end and what this final policy looks like will determine whether or not these victims here, and as well the Catholic laity across the country, will be happy with the work that they've done here.

NEVILLE: And, Ed, what's the current policy that's on the table?

LAVENDERA: Wel, the rough sketch, the way we understand it -- the bishops are allowing a one-strike policy for past abuses. Now, anything that happens from this moment forward -- that if there is a case of proven sexual abuse, that that priest will be removed.

Now, a lot of the victims say that that is not enough, and we've talked to a lot of bishops that say there has to be a zero-tolerance policy... NEVILLE: Across the board.

LAVENDERA: ... that any kid of abuse can't be tolerated. Yes, exactly, across the board.

So a lot of folks, from what we're gathering, have to see that zero-tolerance policy put to place, and anything less than that won't be acceptable. And if they do come up with something less than that, the outcry will be very strong.

NEVILLE: Hey, Ed, do you have an idea that the bishops feel that they're going to walk away from this conference with some sort of resolution?

LAVENDERA: The sense that we've gotten is that they will. They vote on it tomorrow afternoon, but they're confident that what they will walk away from here will be a good first step forward.

Now, a lot of the victims say that they're not exactly anticipating anything that will truly make a difference. And victims groups are asking for all priests removed from the priesthood if there are any allegations of proven sexual abuse, but they also want to take it steps further.

They want bishops held accountable. And, of course, many of the folks say that bishops are the ones that caused the majority of these problems, covering up these issues over the course of the last two or three decades, and allowing these priests to work in an atmosphere that has protected them and shielded them away from the criminal court.

So that is another aspect, that if there isn't any kind of change in that direction, a lot of the victims groups and a lot of the Catholic laity will also be disappointed if that doesn't happen either.

NEVILLE: Right, and I they will definitely express their disappointment.

LAVENDERA: Absolutely.

NEVILLE: Ed Lavendera, thank you...

LAVENDERA: Still a lot of protestors across the street. There has bee a group of between 20 and 50 that have been gathered across the street here from the hotel in downtown Dallas, who have kind of come and gone throughout the day, so -- they are definitely here, from all over the country.

NEVILLE: Absolutely. OK, Ed, thank you very much for that report.

LAVENDERA: You got it.

NEVILLE: Now earlier this year, bishop Gregory, the head of the Conference of Catholic Bishops, said, quote: "It's an ongoing struggle to make sure the Catholic priesthood is not dominated by homosexual men," unquote.

Now, what do gay priests have to do with this current scandal?

Here to talk about it are Stephen Brady, president of the Roman Catholic Faithful, a Catholic lay organization. He's in Dallas to present what he says is evidence that the clergy isn't sincere about reversing it's sexual abuse.

And, mary Louise Cervone, president of Dignity U.S.A, an organization for gay, lesbian and transsexual Catholics -- wow, that's the first time I heard of that one, transsexual Catholics. OK.

Well welcome to both of you, nonetheless.

All right, Stephen, I'm going to begin with you. Now, why do you think the clergy is not sincere about reversing sexual abuse?

STEPHEN BRADY, ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITHFUL: Well, they're not even discussing the topic of homosexuality at today and tomorrow's meeting. They made it clear that they wouldn't be bringing it up.

I fact, Archbishop Flynn, just two days ago, suggested that the Pope's spokesman was out of place by bringing up the issue of homosexuality, when in fact it's Archbishop Flynn and many of the other bishops that have failed to follow church teachings.

The document that's been referred to quite a bit lately, and is available on our Web site, put out by the Congregation for the Religious, in Rome in 1961, made it clear that homosexuals always should not be brought into the priesthood, period.

And the bishops are failing to even address that issue,. So it's hard to take them seriously and...

NEVILLE: OK, but help me piece this together. Help me add two and two and get four. So, you're saying that without homosexual men in the priesthood, we would not have sexual abuse?

BRADY: No, I'm not saying that at all. There are some instances of heterosexual abuse, but clearly over 90 percent of the cases that we're talking about today, and from these victims, over 90 percent of these cases involve priests, male priests, and male boys, teenage boys, adolescents. And that is clearly homosexual activities.

NEVILLE: Mary Louise, how do you see this?

MARY LOUISE CERVONE, DIGNITY U.S.A.: There is no link between homosexuality and pedophilia. That is proven in credible, scientific research.

The National Child Welfare League of America, the National Association of Social Workers, the Association of Psychologists and Psychiatrists, all have policy statements clearly stating there is no link between the two.

There is a cavernous divide between a healthy relationship between two adults, consensual...

BRADY: We are not talking about...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: OK, well, you know what, hang on, guys, for me, because I have to take a break right now. I definitely want to talk to both of you after this break.

OK and get this, everybody -- then, later, if you've had an Elvis sighting, have you? I'm going to need to talk to you. Maybe you weren't seeing things.

We're going to find out why a doctor is convinced the king is alive.

We'll be back in a moment. TALKBACK LIVE continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.

We're talking about homosexuality in the priesthood, and here on TALKBACK LIVE we continued conversations during the break, not to leave you out at home.

But, Tony you were saying what during the break?

TONY: That in Australia, at the moment, there is a almost carbon copy case going on with the Catholic archbishop of Melbourne, I believe it is -- I'd don't know what his name is.

NEVILLE: That's OK. But how do you feel about all of this?

TONY: Well, it seems pretty much the same as what we all here feel, you know. The big issue with this is, the allegation that they paid hush money in the form of a compensation payment, you know, to various victims, I'm talking 15-20 years ago.

NEVILLE: But right now, in particular, we are talking about, the whole idea of homosexual men in the priesthood. What's your take on this?

TONY: Well, as I said before, there is a disproportionate number of homosexuals in the Catholic priesthood, and I think that -- I don't know whether they can screen these people, and...

NEVILLE: OK, thank you, Tony, first of all.

Mary Louise, now, so -- that is true. Based on case studies, an estimated 20 to 58 percent of priests are gay, and if you compare that to the stats that say 5 to 10 percent of men in general population are gay -- I want to ask you, Mary Louise, why do you think the priesthood attracts so many homosexual men?

CERVONE: I think that the priesthood attracts men who want to serve the church and serve the people of the church. It's very clear to understand that acts of sexual abuse committed against children, whether the child is 6-years-old or 15-years-old, that it is a criminal act. It is an abuse of a power that an adult has over one of the most vulnerable of our society, our children.

NEVILLE: You're right.

CERVONE: And it doesn't -- it doesn't matter whether the perpetrator is male and the victim is female, or male to male. What is important, is that it is wrong, it is illegal, it is morally reprehensible, and Dignity, absolutely, has come out...

NEVILLE: Why are you in Dallas, Mary Louise? Why are you in Dallas?

CERVONE: We're in Dallas to inform the public, and to stand up to the bishops, and say you cannot demonize gay priests. You cannot single out gay people as being responsible...

NEVILLE: OK, but, listen -- hey, Mary Louise, I don't think that anybody is saying that homosexuality, pedophilia, pevophilia (ph) -- it's the same thing, everybody has been saying that.

I think the question would be homosexual priests who are not celibate, who are having sex with children or post-pubescent -- I can't say that word, ya'll. Hello. Because I'm getting worked up about this one, Mary Louise, you're getting me worked up, here.

Because, really, we were talking about this during the break, and, first of all, priests are not supposed to be having sex with anybody, right?

(APPLAUSE)

CERVONE: That's right.

Now, let me be clear. There are many priests, many gay men who serve the priesthood with honor and integrity. Gay men have been in the priesthood for centuries. It is unfair to single gay men out as being any more or less risky for sexual

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: But I think that what happens is, because there is a disproportionate number of gay men in the priesthood -- now, I am not saying that -- again, I'm not saying homosexuality means that you are a pedophile. I am not saying that at all.

I'm just saying that, because there are so many homosexual priests -- men in the priesthood, then that increases the chances of them being the abusers, unfortunately.

(CROSSTALK)

CERVONE: You cannot connect those dots.

NEVILLE: All right, go ahead.

CERVONE: You cannot connect the dots in that way.

Medical science has clearly shown us that sex abusers are not motivated by either sexual orientation or an interest in a sexual or unitive relationship, a respectful relationship. What motivates a sex offender is power.

NEVILLE: Right. I agree with you.

CERVONE: And that is not -- and power does not rest in the hands of either gay men or nongay men.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Go ahead, Stephen. What did you say?

(CROSSTALK)

BRADY: Most of these cases involve men having sex with other males. They happen to be teenage males. She can't ignore that fact. And to say that it is not about homosexuality is to ignore the facts in the case. And that is just what the bishops are doing.

Most of the sex abuse is men on male children. It's male-on-male sex, period. That is homosexual activity.

NEVILLE: OK, hang on.

Jim from Washington...

CERVONE: I am not ignoring. We cannot...

NEVILLE: I've got Jim from Washington here.

JIM: Yes.

Arthel, I am neither a Catholic nor a gay, but in my family, I have priest, nuns and people who are gay as well. And what I find interesting is that we really are overlooking one of the big causes of the situation. And that is the discrimination on the part of the Catholic Church that bars over half of its members from the priesthood. There is an extreme shortage of priests because they do not allow women to be priests. There is no reason why gender should determine whether you are a priest or not.

NEVILLE: You're right. I agree with you.

I'm running out on time.

And, also, I am going to say that priests should be allowed to be married. Hello.

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you. OK, Mary Louise, I am so sorry that we're -- I really would love to talk to you a little bit more. I understand what you're saying. Again, on record, I am certainly not saying that homosexuality is directly related to pedophilia.

And, Stephen Brady, thank you as well for joining us here today. And I am sure we will have you back on to discuss this at further length. Thank you very much.

BRADY: Thank you.

NEVILLE: OK.

And up next: Country singer Toby Keith says -- can you guys hear the singing? I don't if you at home can hear, but somebody in this area is singing. It sounds crazy. It's not Toby Keith, though.

But we are going to talk about that story when we come back, OK? He has got this song that is making some people mad. And you have got to hear about this story when we come back.

Do you hear that, Dorothy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Hello, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. Welcome back.

ABC isn't making Toby Keith's list of things to do Fourth of July. That country singer says ABC says took back its invitation to appear on the network's Fourth of July special after Peter Jennings nixed Keith's new single, "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue, the Angry American."

Now, Keith says he wrote about the anger following September 11. Let's listen a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOBY KEITH, SINGER (singing): A mighty sucker punch came flying' in from somewhere in the back. Soon as we could see clearly through our big black eye, man, we lit up your world like the Fourth of July.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: OK, now, the song also includes the lyrics, "Oh, Justice will be served, and the battle will rage. This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage. And you'll be sorry that you messed with the U S of A, because we'll put a boot in your -- it's the American Way."

All right, I had to bleep myself.

Joining us now on the telephone is Toby Keith.

Toby Keith, are you there?

KEITH: Yes, I'm here. How are you?

NEVILLE: All right, I'm fine. Thanks for being with us.

Before we go further, Toby Keith, tell us, why did you write this song and what is this song really about?

KEITH: My dad served in the Army in the '50s, prior to meeting my mother and coming home. He lost his right eye over there on a combat training mission, and came home and always taught me to be a patriot. He flew a flag out in our yard.

And I had lost him about five or six months prior to 9/11. And the way I always lived was to -- when it wasn't cool to fly a flag, we were flying a flag. When nobody really thought you needed to fly one and patriotism was gone, we flew one in our yard 365.

And so I was real angry when I saw that second plane hit that tower. And I wondered what my dad would have thought about it. And the lyrics just fell out of me. And I was really reluctant to record it or anything. And I decided, after playing it at the Pentagon for General Jones and some troops and up at Annapolis, Maryland, at the Naval Academy, to record it and let them have it. They wanted to know where they could get, what they could do. They loved the message. And it's, as originally titled, "The Angry American."

NEVILLE: Hey, Keith, so, you were saying that you were supposed to be on the Fourth of July special on ABC. And you are not going to be now, right?

KEITH: Yes, we were -- the people who book the talent for those things at ABC called. In fact, they begged us. And I had a Fourth of July (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in Salt Lake City.

And we said: "Well, it would involve getting a private jet and getting me up there. And it would have to be shot during the day."

And they said, "We have got to have this song." And it was released -- released 3 1/2 weeks ago and it's already in the top 10. America loves it. And they wanted us to open the show with it.

NEVILLE: OK, but you couldn't get on. Obviously, there was a scheduling conflict there?

KEITH: Well, they agreed. May 16 they needed written confirmation that we would agree to do it. And we sent them written confirmation saying we would. And then, last Friday, they said that, due to the contents of the lyrics and stuff, that we had been nixed from the show.

NEVILLE: OK, Toby Keith, listen, thanks for joining us. Too bad you couldn't come here on the set with me, but I know you are going to join Wolf Blitzer, and we will be able to see you not just in concert tonight. That will be live today, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," Toby Keith, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific. And we will hear more from Mr. Keith.

Hey, Toby, thanks for joining us, OK?

KEITH: Bye-bye.

NEVILLE: All right, listen, now, we did call up ABC to get the network's response to all of this.

And here is what they told us: "The purpose of our special is to celebrate the history of America through its music as part of news division series "In Search of America." The three-hour broadcast will have representation from many musical tradition that, in many cases, are uniquely American: country, along with jazz, patriotic rock, barber shop and gospel. Some of our performers will include Sheryl Crow, Kirk Franklin, Gillian Welsh, Brooks & Dunn, the United States Air Force Band and the Singing Sergeants, and the Boston Pops. We have cast a wide net searching for performers, and considered adding Toby Keith to the lineup. Unfortunately, a number of factors, including logistical ones, prevented us from booking him."

OK. Well, listen, we are going to get two people who might know a little something about this to talk about it with us now.

We're talking about Moby.

Hey, Moby.

MOBY, "MOBY IN THE MORNING": Hey, how you doing, Arthel?

NEVILLE: Yes, you're a big-time country dude right here in Georgia, right?

MOBY: Right here in Atlanta, Georgia.

NEVILLE: 101.5.

MOBY: Kicks 101.5. Pardon me for wearing my logo shirt, but it's CNN.

NEVILLE: Oh, that's OK. Shameless plug.

MOBY: Shameless.

NEVILLE: Victoria Jones, I'm going to let you plug yourself, too.

MOBY: Go ahead, Victoria.

VICTORIA JONES, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: I listen to everything. And I love listening to Toby Keith. This song is extraordinary.

MOBY: Good for you.

NEVILLE: And so, Victoria, would it bother you to hear this song, hear Toby Keith sing this song on a network special on the Fourth of July?

JONES: No, I would love to hear it. I think it would be great to hear it. And I wouldn't bleep that word. I think we should hear that word that you bleeped.

The thing is, this is about freedom of speech. And the tricky thing with freedom of speech is that we want to hear the song. The song is great. He has a right to sing it. But ABC has a right to say, "We don't want to put it on our thing." And that is the thing with freedom of speech. People have the right to make stupid decisions in our country.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: All right, Moby, how do you see this?

MOBY: Well, I don't argue with Victoria at all. She's right on the money.

When I first heard that song on the Academy of Country Music Awards, I was all prepared to play it the next morning. And I am as patriotic as any human being I know. Having not served in the military, I feel that those that didn't serve should serve in some way. I love this country. And I expected to have my patriotic...

(APPLAUSE)

MOBY: Thank you very much -- have my patriotic buttons pushed by this song. And, honestly, it didn't touch me on first listen.

The next morning, I did not play the song on the air. And I made some comment about the fact it didn't touch those buttons. Toby Keith fans came forward. I listened again. We're playing it now. And, like Toby said in your interview just a moment ago, his fan club as well as all of country music seems to really love it.

There was a moment, a gentleman here a while ago during the commercial made a real good point. And I want to carry it a little further. He said we are angry here in America. That's an angry, angry song.

NEVILLE: You know, listen, after September 11, a lot people in America and a lot of Americans felt that way: that somebody is going to pay for this.

MOBY: That's right.

And, country music fans, did you hear the Alan Jackson song "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning"? That was a song of hurt and sorrow and loss. And after that, then what comes after that? The anger comes after that. "I'm mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore." This is Toby saying that.

Toby just got back from a USO tour. And over there for the fighting American military, Toby was doing that song twice in every set he did.

NEVILLE: Let me say this, though.

MOBY: Yes, ma'am. NEVILLE: Because just listening to Toby just now, he was explaining that, because he was booked that night on July 4. And then, in order to go ahead and do the show with ABC, then they would have to provide a private jet and make some special accommodations to get him to there. And he had mentioned that they would have to tape in the afternoon or something.

Realistically, come on. They are not going to rearrange their production schedule for Toby Keith or pretty much anybody short of Elvis.

You know, Elvis is still here. You know that, right? Do you know Elvis is alive?

MOBY: The guy that did the autopsy said he is not.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: You better stick around for this next conversation.

MOBY: I heard that was coming up.

But I agree with you and I agree with Victoria a while ago, when she said ABC has the right not to air that. If the arrangements were made and then they listened to the lyrics and said, "No, we don't want to that," well, that is within their rights.

But I promise you this. I have seen the response to this song. I know how the people in my little-bitty radio audience feel about this song. And I think ABC is wrong. Who made that decision?

NEVILLE: It's like No. 1. The song doesn't bother me.

And Sharon just wrote in. She just said that -- via e-mail, she said: "How can you be too mad over 9/11? You can't be mad enough. I love Toby's songs."

MOBY: That's absolutely correct.

NEVILLE: She says, "Thank you, Toby, for writing it."

MOBY: I absolutely agree with her. And who made that decision at ABC, Peter Jennings? Canadian, isn't he? Sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: I am not speaking on that.

JONES: I will speak on that. I'll go after that one.

Go ahead, Victoria.

MOBY: Hi, Victoria. Where are you from? I love your accent.

JONES: Hey, Moby. I'm a American citizen, Moby, OK?

MOBY: Me, too.

JONES: Here's what's cool about this. It's that the Canadians are there in Afghanistan supporting the British and supporting the Americans.

MOBY: Fighting their hearts out.

JONES: They are. And they have lost Canadians to friendly fire, many Canadians to friendly fire. So, they are there.

I think what this is, it's not so much about Peter Jennings being Canadian, if he made the decision. I think it's about him not being hip and not knowing the mood of the country.

MOBY: I couldn't agree more.

NEVILLE: Victoria, Victoria?

JONES: Yes.

NEVILLE: Do I fall into the hip category?

JONES: Oh, yes. You're hip.

NEVILLE: OK. Then you and I are all right, Victoria Jones.

OK, listen, that's all the time we have.

Victoria, guess what? Elvis is alive, Victoria. He's alive, according to this doctor we're going to have...

JONES: I always knew.

NEVILLE: Oh, you believe that?

JONES: Oh, totally believe it.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: Is her satellite feed going to stick around long enough to keep her for this next section?

(LAUGHTER)

MOBY: I hear the next guy is real convincing.

NEVILLE: If I can keep Victoria, I surely would love that.

In meantime, we are going to hear from -- thank you, Moby.

And, Victoria, if you can stick around, please do.

We are going to hear from a man who says he knows Elvis. And he insists the King is not dead, not dead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NEVILLE: Crunk? Crunk. C-R-U-N-K.

OK, that supposedly, according to Alicia there, is the new word for hip. So, I am crunk.

Anyway, by the way, we were talking to Toby Keith a minute ago. I want to remind you that Toby Keith is going to join Wolf Blitzer tonight at 5:00 Eastern. So you want to take a peak at that, of course.

OK, listen. I am going to have to sit down for this next story, because there are Elvis sightings we are talking about here. We know they are a dime a dozen in the tabloids, right? And there are sorts of theories about whether the rock 'n' roll King really died or just drifted away to some blue Hawaii lagoon.

Well, now psychiatrist Dr. Donald Hinton has written a book called "The Truth about Elvis Aaron Presley in His Own Words." And we are going to let Dr. Hinton explain his theory in his own words.

He joins us along with his assistant, Linda Johnson.

Linda, are you there as well?

LINDA JOHNSON, ASSISTANT TO DR. HINTON: I sure am.

NEVILLE: OK.

Dr. Hinton?

DR. DONALD W. HINTON, AUTHOR, "THE TRUTH ABOUT ELVIS": Yes.

NEVILLE: Convince me.

HINTON: Well, it is the truth.

It is Elvis' book in his own handwriting. And he wrote it so that his fans could know the truth about his life as Jesse. And he also wrote it for his friends, his friends that have helped to take care of him throughout the country. It is not my book. It belongs to his friends, including Berne (ph) in Michigan, Shuma (ph) in North Carolina,

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Dr. Hinton?

HINTON: Yes?

NEVILLE: You are a psychiatrist, right?

HINTON: That's correct.

NEVILLE: Have you tried your own couch?

(LAUGHTER) HINTON: I am in perfect mental health, ma'am, thank you.

NEVILLE: Dr. Hinton, I am going to have some fun with this segment, so I hope you can take it.

HINTON: I'm ready.

NEVILLE: Because I think that the King is not here. He is not in this building. He is not around.

HINTON: I have been treating him for five years. He suffers a lot of depression.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: You seem depressed too, Doctor.

HINTON: It's the honest truth.

NEVILLE: Come on now. Come on, Doctor.

OK, let me bring Linda in this.

Now, Linda, you are Dr. Hinton's assistant, right?

JOHNSON: I am an assistant at the office, yes.

NEVILLE: Now, let's get this straight. Now, who is that between you guys. Is that Elvis?

JOHNSON: It looks like Elvis. It is Elvis' actual second cousin, who is a twin himself, Jerry Presley, yes.

NEVILLE: Well, nobody told me was going to be here. Now, who is this? Jerry Presley?

JOHNSON: Yes, it is definitely Elvis' second cousin. And from the eyes up, he is 15 years younger than Elvis, and he does a show of his own for the last 31 years.

NEVILLE: OK, Linda?

JOHNSON: Yes.

NEVILLE: Now, you talk to Elvis on the phone, right, because he goes by Jesse, right?

JOHNSON: He does go by Jesse. Yes, he does. He no longer goes by Elvis Presley. When they decided to do this in 1977, he took over his

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Well, wait. Hold up, Linda. What does Elvis say when he calls you?

JOHNSON: We just talk normal.

NEVILLE: Yes, like what, conversation? "Hey, what's up, buddy?"

JOHNSON: That's more or less. And he says, "Linda, darling, what you doing today?" Absolutely. That is just the way we talk. We have been doing it for many years.

NEVILLE: Linda, are you a big Elvis fan from way back?

JOHNSON: Not a big, big Elvis fan.

My family came from the area. I have a lot of relatives from down there, and just always loved his music. But I wasn't one of those that would climb up over the stage and go at him. Let's put it that way. But I think he has a beautiful voice.

NEVILLE: OK. I want to bring in Larry Geller now . He is Elvis' former hairdresser, a friend and spiritual mentor. He dressed Elvis' hair for the funeral and is the author of a book called "I Can Dream About His Life With Elvis."

OK, Larry, help me out here.

LARRY GELLER, ELVIS' HAIRDRESSER: Oh, this is so unbelievable.

Let me cut to the chase here. This is so absurd, so ridiculous. I know, as well as you do and everybody that is listening, the unshakeable truth, the sad truth. Elvis died August 16, 1977. I worked on his body at the mortuary. It was Elvis. It's as simple as that.

You know, when I was coming here and I knew about this show, I was wondering, what is the motive of this person, this so-called doctor?

NEVILLE: Dr. Hinton, what is your motive?

HINTON: My motive is, Jesse, Elvis, has asked me to a part of the revealing of the truth, which is going to happen later this year.

GELLER: This man is a fraud. He's a fraud.

NEVILLE: Dr. Hinton, what state do you practice? Where? I forgot.

HINTON: I practice in Kansas City, Missouri.

NEVILLE: OK, Dr. Hinton, are you worried that maybe your patients will hit the road, Jack, and don't come back no more?

HINTON: No, ma'am. I haven't lost a single patient over this. I have a very well, good reputation in the city as a psychiatrist. I am telling the truth. And we have undergone extensive lie-detection testing by an expert in the country.

NEVILLE: Dr. Hinton, you have a picture of Elvis in your book? JOHNSON: Yes, it's a picture...

NEVILLE: That is not Elvis. Look at this. This is not Elvis, OK?

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: Arthel?

NEVILLE: Please.

Yes?

GELLER: Arthel?

NEVILLE: Yes?

HINTON: Can you imagine what it must have been like to work on Elvis' body, on his hair when he died, the depth of emotion, the extraordinary circumstances of this man dying at the age of 42? And for people like this to claim -- these people are either liars or they're on drugs and they're hallucinating. It's simple as that.

HINTON: Well, we've been proven that we're not liars.

GELLER: And you know what? I'm sure everyone knows it. And that is the truth.

JOHNSON: You know, Larry...

GELLER: There's Elvis fans all over the world who take this very seriously. He has a daughter. I mean, come on. Let's get real. Come on.

JOHNSON: He has a beautiful daughter named Lisa.

GELLER: Yes, yes, we know her name.

NEVILLE: Guess what?

Dr. Donald Hinton, Linda Johnson, and the guy in the middle, cousin whatever his name is.

Sorry. What is his name?

HINTON: Jerry Presley.

NEVILLE: Cousin Jerry.

Yes, OK.

Larry Geller, all of you, thanks for being here.

HINTON: Thank you.

NEVILLE: It is time for me to leave the building. On that note, we'll see you tomorrow.

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