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Judge Throws Out Murder Conviction in Dog-Mauling Case

Aired June 17, 2002 - 14:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Before deciding the sentences for the defendants in the dog-mauling case, the judge heard emotional statements from Diane Whipple's friends and family. Many expressed their shock at the judge's decision to throw out the second-degree murder conviction of Marjorie Knoller.

For more on this case, we want to turn to our CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Some remarkably emotional testimony from the family members and relatives of Diane Whipple, saying that they couldn't believe that a grand jury would find that there was sufficient evidence in which to merit a second-degree murder charge against Marjorie Knoller, and then now this judge simply overturns it.

The prosecutors say they are going to see about trying to reinstate that conviction. What are the chances of that, Jeffrey?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this story is unfolding in real time here. Everyone was completely thrown for a loop by Judge Warren's decision to throw out the second-degree murder charge.

Judge Warren said that he is going to be reconvening the parties possibly to impose sentence 1:30 Pacific time, 4:30 Eastern time. But now we just heard from the prosecutors. They may not want him to impose sentence because they may want to appeal his decision before sentence is imposed. So we don't really know what exactly is going to happen in court at 4:30.

As you point out, Fredricka, they were extremely emotional statements from the victim's friends and family. But what was striking, of course, was that the anger was not just aimed at the two defendants, the two people convicted of owning these malicious dogs, but the anger was also directed at the judge, who overturned what the trial jurors found beyond a reasonable doubt was a murder case.

WHITFIELD: That's right, Jeffrey. And we saw some of that anger exhibited by Sharon Smith. She is the partner of Diane Whipple of seven years. Let's listen one more time to what she had to say to the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON SMITH, DIANE WHIPPLE'S COMPANION: Everyone knows the way she died, the horrific way she died. And let me tell you about the way she lived and who she was to me. Diane was a woman that had a heart much bigger than her body. She was a woman who prided herself in helping others. She was an elite athlete who dreamed of making an Olympic team one day. She was the consummate coach, a teacher of life, and she taught me to take advantage of every day, to live life to the fullest. She believed herself in living life to the fullest and that the little things in life really do matter.

Those of us that knew her and those of you who have come to know her through this would all agree that her spirit was just too big for this world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Jeffrey Toobin, it seems unthinkable to see how this family can go through this yet one more time if they do decide, if their attorneys do decide that they want to try and get that second -- second-degree murder conviction reinstated.

TOOBIN: Long time coming it may be because if this court goes to the court of appeal -- if this decision is appealed to the court -- to the California Court of Appeals, that will be many months to decide. From the court of appeals, it could go to the California Supreme Court. The litigation involving the appeal of this sentence could last for a very long time.

But the family may well say, look, the difference between a maximum of a four-year sentence versus a minimum of a 15-year sentence, we'll put up with more appeals if we can get that sentence reinstated.

WHITFIELD: So, you said if they do decide to try and get this reinstated, then the judge would delay sentencing for the lesser convictions. So how much time might elapse before they ever find out what kind of sentence would be imposed for that involuntary manslaughter conviction?

TOOBIN: Six months, a year, maybe more. California is famous for having one of the slowest moving judicial systems in the country. The appeals process is very slow there. There could be more hearings in the -- in the superior court, in the trial court.

One of the things Terence Hallinan, the district attorney of San Francisco, said is we are going to ask Judge Warren to, himself, to change his mind. So that could be an additional hearing. This is going to be a slow process. What we were looking at this morning was a sentence, fairly straightforward, end of the day today. Now, probably months more of litigation.

WHITFIELD: So, did the judge essentially say by overturning that second-degree murder conviction, that he felt that even though Robert Noel and Marjorie Knoller knew they had vicious dogs, it was the judge's belief that those two didn't believe that there was a high probability that those dogs would present death.

TOOBIN: Exactly. But it was -- it only effected Marjorie Knoller. Robert Noel was not charged with murder. This whole overturning has nothing to do with what his case because...

WHITFIELD: Right, as it pertains to Marjorie Knoller.

TOOBIN: And, in fact, he may well be sentenced today because his case is not effected at all. But as for Marjorie Knoller, the judge said the standard in California is in order to be convicted of second- degree murder, you have to know in your own mind, not a reasonable person, you have know in your own mind that there is a high probability that what you do will lead to the death of another person.

And the judge said that based on what he saw of the evidence, that Marjorie Knoller simply allowing her dog outside the house, she could not and did not know there was a high probability of death to another person. Jurors disagreed with him, but at least for now, he has the last word.

WHITFIELD: So, if Judge Warren believes that Noel and Knoller were equally culpable, then if Noel gets his sentence today, is it likely in your view that Knoller would get the same sentence for that same conviction? We're talking about the involuntary manslaughter.

TOOBIN: It certainly sounds that way. And I think even though the judge gave a big victory to Marjorie Knoller today, he was very outspoken in saying what a despicable crime this was. He used the word despicable. Given that four years is the maximum sentence here, and four years is not all that much time, it certainly seemed likely to me that the judge was heading towards giving both of them the maximum of four years. But it is far from clear that Marjorie Knoller will be sentenced today. And the litigation surrounding her murder conviction could last for some time.

WHITFIELD: And you said earlier that a lot of times, judges make their decisions, you know, based on recommendations that may come from the probation officer or make their decision on a sentencing even before hearing from those victim's statement.

So I wonder, given the fact that we saw Robert Noel wasn't seemingly paying attention, a whole lot of attention, to those victim's statements, I wonder how much of that behavior might make an impact on what the judge believes is a proper sentence.

TOOBIN: Well, that's been his demeanor throughout this case. In fact, there was a dramatic moment when Sarah (sic) Smith -- I believe her name is -- the partner of Diane Whipple...

WHITFIELD: Sharon Smith.

TOOBIN: Sharon Smith. I'm sorry -- pointed to Noel and said, you know, I know you're not -- you owe me the courtesy of looking at me. And we couldn't see from our camera angle whether he did or not. But given his attitude throughout the entire case, I'm sure he did not give Sharon Smith the satisfaction of looking at her.

He has had a real negative attitude. The judge doesn't like this guy. In fact, one of the reasons he overturned the murder conviction is he said he was not pleased that they were both weren't charged the same thing. He thought that Robert Noel, who didn't face murder charges, was more culpable than his wife, who did face murder charges.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much for helping us out on this case, which has taken an awful lot of twists and turns thus far today and likely still to take a few more turns later on today. All right. Thanks very much.

TOOBIN: Thank you.

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