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CNN Live Today
Interview with Armstrong Williams, Julianne Malveaux
Aired July 01, 2002 - 13:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Congressman J.C. Watts of Oklahoma says it has been a wonderful ride, but now it is time to go home. Watts, considered a rising star in the Republican party, says he will retire at the end of this term. He says he is retiring to spend more time with his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: I will never be an 8:00-5:00 dad, as Helen Cole (ph) so often reminds me, never be an 8:00-5:00 husband. That's not my nature, that's not who I am. I'm still young, energetic, optimistic, enthusiastic, American. And I don't think that I have to have "congressman" in front of my name to make a contribution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Joining us now, radio talk show host Armstrong Williams and syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux -- thank you both for being with me.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: You are welcome.
JULIANNE MALVEAUX, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good to be here,thanks.
PHILLIPS: All right. Armstrong, we've got the president, the vice president, Rosa Parks all calling and saying to J.C. Watts, don't go. What's the -- that's some serious pressure. Why is he still stepping down?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, our party believes in family values, and obviously he has five kids and a wife. It is very difficult when you live in Oklahoma, and you try to do that back and forth-ness, go home and spend time with the kids. His kids are at a very critical age where they need their father. It is very difficult for a mother, because she is somewhat like a single parent. Obviously, he's also in a very critical position in the Republican leadership. The Republican party, including Mr. Watts has invested so much in his being in the position that he's in now. He is an important symbolism, not as important of a symbolism as he was before President Bush was elected, and you have stars like General Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, and Alfonso Jackson and others in the administration. And I don't know, he made a tough decision. Everyone knew that there was some things, in the terms of the House leadership that not terribly happy with, but he managed to work his way through that. And obviously, he made a decision, he made a family decision.
PHILLIPS: All right, Julianne, what do you think? You feel the GOP has gotten way too much mileage from J.C. Watts.
MALVEAUX: He has been the poster child for diversity, he has been the poster child for affirmative action. I think it is -- quite frankly, great that he is stepping down. Armstrong says his party believes in family values, so let him go take care of his family. I do think he will be missed on both sides, but I think more importantly, he is the lone Republican congressperson that is African- American, and this party, while it talks a good game, has not really supported African-American insurgents. There are many people who are trying to run for office. They haven't gotten the support. I know some of them. They call me. I don't know why they call me, I can't do anything for them. They say the Republican party does this and does that. So when J.C. Watts moves out of the way, we will be able to see what this party really believes in terms of diversity.
Quiet as he has kept (ph), Armstrong spins very well. I am going to give him all credit for that. But you know what, Tom Delay and J.C. Watts would not send horses (ph) when Mr. Watts stepped down, and there are a lot of people who are not quite as enthusiastic about J.C. Watts as President Bush and Rosa Parks were. So, you know, he's hedging his bets. With the children and the other issues, it is also about the fact that how far could he really go in the party of Lincoln, that is really about the party of regression.
WILLIAMS: No, we have to really look...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: I am sorry.
PHILLIPS: No, go ahead, Armstrong. I just want to say, you know, he really blew out a lot of stereotypes, though. You know, he is the only African-American representative in the House, and he was really well respected.
WILLIAMS: That's what I want to talk about.
MALVEAUX: Yes, he was. Yes, he was.
WILLIAMS: J.C., thank God, is an example of Martin Luther King's...
MALVEAUX: Oh, please.
WILLIAMS: ... where a man is not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
MALVEAUX: Armstrong is perfectly...
WILLIAMS: J.C. Watts may have started out as being a case...
MALVEAUX: Armstrong...
WILLIAMS: ... for the Republican party, somebody to promote, but J.C. Watts got to where he is today because of merit, because of substance, because of aggressiveness, and because of proven leadership.
(CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: I am going to have to -- I am going to have to interrupt my colleague here.
WILLIAMS: And I don't want you to think (ph)...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Let Armstrong finish.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: A lot of people may not know his background, so go ahead, Armstrong.
WILLIAMS: I don't want anyone to think that Mr. Watts' career is going to end here, just because he's out of politics does not mean that he is not going to support the Republican leadership, and it may be that he may take a position in the Bush administration. You never know which cabinet official is thinking about stepping down. J.C. made no bones about it before that when President Bush was considering his running mate, he had his hat thrown into the ring.
J.C. is very ambitious, and a lot of people -- I mean, let me tell you difficult to feed a family of five, Julianne, when they have the salary that they paid him in the Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: Well, the average American makes about $40,000 a year, Armstrong. I am not going to hear that.
WILLIAMS: He has two homes, in Oklahoma and in Washington, D.C. It is very difficult.
MALVEAUX: Armstrong Williams -- Armstrong, you have made your point. You have more than made your point. But let's be clear. I don't think that J.C. Watts is not going to be a player. Certainly, he is talented, he is charismatic. He is going to be a player. But I think that much ado is being made over little of nothing here at some level because I think that the Republican party has put all their eggs in one basket. You cannot allow one man, one African-American man to be the standard bearer for your whole entire party. Why aren't there more African-American Republican Congressman.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Why aren't there? Let's talk about that. Why aren't there?
(CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: Because these people -- because these people really do not want to reach out. They got the language, but they don't have the -- they have a language, but they don't have the access.
WILLIAMS: This is not true (ph).
MALVEAUX: You have got Michael Steele in Maryland, who is the head of the Maryland Republican Party. But if you did an audit of the Republican Party around the world, what you would find -- around the world, I mean, the world -- you can even go to Guam and find that they're still not dealing with people of color.
WILLIAMS: Monopolizing, Julianne. Do what you do best. If I could just say, in fairness to Republicans...
MALVEAUX: You, Armstrong, were filibustering.
WILLIAMS: ... who happen to be black, it has been very difficult, even with someone like Justice Thomas, being a Republican, being conservative, and being black. We did not have access to airwaves like we do today. We were not syndicated columnists. We were not pundits. We were considered as sellouts. But Justice Thomas and J.C. Watts and Alan Keyes and others have changed that. And now, people understand what conservatism is.
MALVEAUX: If anybody buys that...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I didn't interrupt you, please let me finish. Please.
MALVEAUX: Yes, you did, Armstrong. If anybody buys this pity party story...
PHILLIPS: All right, how about this... All right. I am going to blow the whistle, let me blow the whistle. All right. Let's look forward. Let's look forward here. Who would be some good candidates? Who are some smart, intelligent -- let's focus on African-American for a minute, because J.C. Watts was a very powerful black leader, did a lot of great things, on the conservative side too. He wasn't screaming liberal that a lot of people don't pay a lot of attention to. Jesse Jackson has gotten a lot of heat, you know, for being the way he is. So, let's look at other possible candidates here and be proactive.
WILLIAMS: The lieutenant governor of Colorado, Joe Rogers, is a very, very attractive candidate. Well-spoken, very right, very bright. He crosses all color lines. He has done a very good job in the state of Colorado. There are other candidates that are running under the Republican emblem, and that have very good chances of being -- they have very good chances of being elected in November. And J.C. was a guy who was -- he broke open the door. He made it possible for others to be elected. And I am willing to tell you, if the candidate has the right values, they have the right message, the American people will vote them into office.
PHILLIPS: All right. Miss Malveaux, who is the vote (ph)?
MALVEAUX: I am not going to...
WILLIAMS: She doesn't know anyone. She's a Democrat.
MALVEAUX: Oh, I do. Actually, you know what...
WILLIAMS: Name one. Name one. You can't. You don't know.
MALVEAUX: I will not lift up the Republican -- yes, I can, Armstrong. Armstrong, I can. But I won't.
WILLIAMS: It is not something that you research. You know nothing.
MALVEAUX: You don't know what I know.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Julianne, go ahead.
MALVEAUX: There are African-American -- there are African- American Republicans all over the country that I have conversations with. There was a woman in Long Island.
WILLIAMS: She knows no one. What's her name?
MALVEAUX: Armstrong, I am not going there with you.
PHILLIPS: Armstrong, behave yourself.
MALVEAUX: Here's the bottom line -- he can't behave himself, because, you know, he's having too much fun right now.
WILLIAMS: Because she knows no one. She's a Democrat.
MALVEAUX: Here's the issue here. When the Republican does what they have done with white Republicans, and take them from the city councils to the Congress, from the state legislature to the Senate, then we will have something going on. I know Joe Rogers, I have talked to him, I have interviewed him, Armstrong. Don't tell me that.
WILLIAMS: Name one other than the person I mentioned.
MALVEAUX: Ken Blackwell from Ohio.
WILLIAMS: Oh, good. Good. Very good.
MALVEAUX: Who I think is quite outstanding. I think that he has some issues, but I've worked with him. I brought you to Democratic tables, and you know that, so don't even go there.
WILLIAMS: Yes, you have. Yes, you have. But I am not running for office. (CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: Armstrong is -- stop hating (ph) himself.
PHILLIPS: All right. You can tell...
MALVEAUX: Here's the point, here is the bottom line.
PHILLIPS: All right. Bottom line.
MALVEAUX: What the Republican Party has to do is invest in African-American Republicans not when they're J.C. Watts but when they are Homey the Clown at the city council, bring them up, and bring them through in the best resources. They have been unwilling to do that.
WILLIAMS: And they are doing that. They are doing it.
PHILLIPS: You know what?
WILLIAMS: We're out of time.
MALVEAUX: We have not seen that, and that is the problem.
PHILLIPS: I think -- but yes, we are out of time.
MALVEAUX: Armstrong is out of time. Armstrong is always out of time.
PHILLIPS: You know what...
MALVEAUX: But he still takes it.
PHILLIPS: I am nominating both of you right now to run for the seat. I am saying it right here on CNN. I am looking for you both.
MALVEAUX: The Oklahoma seat?
PHILLIPS: I'll be your campaign managers. OK?
WILLIAMS: Thank you, thank you.
MALVEAUX: Sounds good.
PHILLIPS: It's always lively with you two. All right. Julianne Malveaux and Armstrong Williams.
WILLIAMS: At least you know two black Republicans.
MALVEAUX: And then I know him, which is a problem. Which is a problem. Bye, Armstrong.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: All right. We're leaving -- you guys go punch it out. I love you both. Talk to you later. All right.
WILLIAMS: Bye bye.
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