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American Morning
Despite Strict FAA Rules, Pilots Almost Flew Drunk
Aired July 02, 2002 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: "Up Front" this morning, besides the potential balloon record, there are two other major air stories this morning. A deadly midair collision over Germany kills at least 70 people, most of them children, and two pilots in Miami fail a sobriety test. They were called back to the gate just before takeoff when a pretty alert security guard smelled alcohol on their breath.
Miles O'Brien joins us now from CNN Center in Atlanta to talk about both of these stories. Let's start first of all -- good morning, Miles...
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula, good to see you.
ZAHN: ... with these allegedly drunk pilots. How can that happen?
O'BRIEN: Well, you may recall the story in 1990 that Northwest Air Crew 727 had a rough night in Fargo, North Dakota. Drank quite a few drinks, got in their plane the next morning, flew to Minneapolis- St. Paul, and they were promptly arrested for flying under the influence. They all served some prison time. Interestingly, the captain ended up getting rehabilitated, ended up retiring from Northwest as a 747 captain.
The bottom line is here, aviators tend to drink. This is, after all, fighter pilot ethic. Many of these people, many of them come out of the military. These aren't choir boys.
There are strict rules in place, however, to try to prevent alcohol from impeding their ability to fly. There is a strict rule by the FAA. Eight hours bottle to throttle, it is called. That's eight hours from drinking to flying. That's probably tighter than it should be. The airlines, in many cases, have set up 24-hour rules, 24 hours from drink to fly, and then, of course, the blood alcohol level is at least below .04. Some airlines have a zero tolerance for this sort of thing. So, how does it happen? It happens probably because of old habits, because of a bit of hubris, maybe.
ZAHN: But, Miles. I mean, help me with this. We have heard what the rules are, bottle to throttle. The fact is, how many of these pilots would get stopped by security guards? I mean, are there enough safety nets in the system to protect people from getting on board planes with drunk commercial pilots? O'BRIEN: Well, let's first of all talk about what is happening at the security screening points. Right now, there is kind of a cold war, almost a hot war between the security screeners and the airline pilots. Many airline pilots would tell you they are being singled out for extra precautions, extra security clearances than some of the passengers are. So there's already some tension there. Let's put that aside for a moment.
The airlines, since -- actually an Amtrak train crash about 15 years ago where some alcohol was involved in the Northeast corridor, the airlines have had random drug testing for alcohol and drug usage for all flight crews. That includes flight attendants and pilots, and most any pilot you talk to says it happens fairly frequently. They will come on board the plane, and there is the guy with the white lab coat and the little cup. So that is part of their job right now. There are those layers there. Is there enough random drug testing? I don't know. I think just the fact that it exists would probably be a pretty big deterrent.
ZAHN: Yes, but you said fairly frequently. I mean, I guess I want to know when I get on board a plane, and I paid for a ticket, that my pilots are going to be sober.
O'BRIEN: Well, you might want to fly with a breathalyzer, perhaps, I don't know. Maybe that is something we should all be doing.
ZAHN: I mean, you're a pilot yourself. Are you outraged when you heard these stories, or you have gotten used to them?
O'BRIEN: Yes, of course I'm outraged. No, no. It is very outrageous when you hear this kind of thing. This -- me, I just have personal preservation in mind. I wouldn't consider because I have got my own hide on the line, and you would think that most pilots would think the same way, human nature being -- self preservation is pretty high on the list. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that pilots with many thousands of hours of work as pilots, time in the cockpit, develop a sense of complacency, and this manifests itself in many ways. Who knows, this other incident we are talking about this morning, there might be some of that involved. You get to the point where you think it's easy, and that's a very dangerous place to be.
ZAHN: And when you talk about the other incident, you were referring specifically to this case?
O'BRIEN: Well, no, I was actually...
ZAHN: Or the Germany aircraft?
O'BRIEN: ... shifting over to the Germany -- the aircraft. We don't know what's going on in that case, but in many cases, you know, pilots up at flight level 3-6-0, 36,000 feet, they have got the autopilot on, they are monitoring systems. They're literally on top of the world, and there's probably a sense that not much harm can befall them, and there is that human nature sense of prowess and hubris which factors in to a lot of accidents. ZAHN: Yes, we now know that more than 70 people are dead in this midair collision, and I guess our last report from Alessio Vinci on the ground from the crash site suggested that the Swiss -- I guess the folks in the tower in Zurich made three attempts to contact the pilots of the Russian plane and never heard back from them.
O'BRIEN: Well, just quickly on that one, you have got to remember, you have got a Swiss controller talking to a Russian pilot speaking English, English being the international language for aviation. Now, everybody says they speak English well in this case, you know, you add to the fact that we're talking on radios, and that can be difficult communication even when English is your first language. And there is -- it's a situation, if you look at many accidents, you can boil down to this communication factor, and when you throw in a language barrier, it can be very challenging.
ZAHN: And investigators on the ground there trying to sort out what went so horribly wrong. Most of those dead young children on their way to Barcelona, Spain. Miles O'Brien, thanks for covering so much territory for us this morning. Appreciate the help.
O'BRIEN: You are welcome, Paula.
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