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CNN Live At Daybreak

31 People Accused of Selling Fraudulent Visas Out of U.S. Embassy in Qatar

Aired July 11, 2002 - 07:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now on to the war on terror. As Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell get ready to testify on the Hill today about Homeland Security, there has been an alarming development in the anti-terror fight. Thirty-one people are in U.S. custody, accused of selling fraudulent visas out of the U.S. Embassy in Qatar; three of the alleged buyers, former roommates of September 11 hijackers.

Lots to talk about this morning with Eric Margolis, author of "War at the Top of the World" -- nice to see you in person for a change.

ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR, "WAR AT THE TOP OF THE WORLD": It's great to be here -- thank you.

ZAHN: You're usually on remote from Tehran. Now, first of all, what is the significance of these arrests?

MARGOLIS: I don't think we should put too much significance behind them. You had local nationals, who were working for the American consular section, selling visas to people for $10,000. And it's unfortunate, but it happens, not just in Qatar in the Middle East, but it happens in many places around the world, particularly in Latin America and then the Caribbean. Our consular services is no more -- or that's certainly not occasionally challenged by ethical questions, just like other government officials.

ZAHN: Well, what is it that Americans should be demanding of the government as this war on terror is waged? I mean, it's not very comforting for us all to sit here as the war is being waged to hear how easy it is to get fake visas and to know that some of these roommates of these September 11 hijackers did just that.

MARGOLIS: Well, you have an anti-American international, as I call it, that seems to flow into the U.S. still with considerable ease. And just think of all of the people coming across the border from Mexico. If I were a terrorist and wanted to get in the United States, I'd come in from Tijuana, not by airplane. That still is -- the border there is porous, and you don't have coordination between the immigration department and between the CIA and between the FBI. Once again, we see these big bureaucracies who aren't talking to each other. ZAHN: How easy is it for these people to get these fake visas? I mean, it's one thing to have $10,000, which is a huge reach for most of these people. But once they have the money, is it as simple as just going in with a fake name, and here I am, give me my visa?

MARGOLIS: No, you have to find a corrupt official, and that's usually done through some kind of family or friendship connections. And these officials do exist, particularly at the lower level in the embassies. Now, of course, there is going to be a crackdown, and everybody is going to check again.

But there needs to be some kind of visa identification program, like with a hologram or some way of making sure that it's a correct visa, or it hasn't been paid for by bribery. It's very tough. We'll never shut it off entirely.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the issue of what the American government is calling promotional material, which is the latest audio recording from al Qaeda by a very low-level member, where this guy says basically al Qaeda is planning -- quote -- "a large-scale war of ambushes, assassinations and operations, targeting the most unexpected places for the enemy."

MARGOLIS: Well, I would call it probably authentic, and it shows the thinking of not only al Qaeda, but of a myriad of anti-American groups that are emerging out of the woodwork. It's hard to keep track even of the names. New ones pop up every day. They are just a handful of people, or they are fragments of other groups. They keep changing their names.

There are a lot of people who are angry at the United States out there. And I don't think we are looking at major operations on the scale of the World Trade Center, but I think the danger is a lot of smaller-scale operations, attacks against American targets, abroad particularly.

ZAHN: What are they capable of pulling off in these small cells?

MARGOLIS: Attacks against tourist groups, attacks against American businesses or against an embassy and consular officials or against other American business targets, American aircraft, that's what really concerns me.

ZAHN: In the same communication, it's indicated that this guy says Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are still alive. Donald Rumsfeld, of course, saying we have no proof of that. What do you think, based on all of the sources you continue to communicate with, not only in Afghanistan, but Pakistan along that western border?

MARGOLIS: All of my sources and particularly from Pakistan and my Islamic Jihad sources say that both Mullah Omar and bin Laden are alive. They are in the Pakistani tribal territory, this wild, uncontrolled region, and being sheltered by friendly tribesmen. And that their -- and they are rebuilding their organizations, but that their organizations have scattered, and they have moved to other parts of the Arab world, into the Muslim world and into Europe. ZAHN: Which, in many ways, is far more ominous, isn't it?

MARGOLIS: It's more ominous, and they are harder to track. The real heart of al Qaeda is no longer in Afghanistan. And look, the U.S. is spending $1 billion a month of taxpayers' money, charging around on these fruitless search-and-destroy missions through the mountains, still looking for Mullah Omar and bin Laden. The U.S., even though it says that they don't think that he is alive or there, they are looking for him.

ZAHN: Well, the U.S. government would argue otherwise. They would say those searches of the caves have been fruitful, but we'll let you pick up that argument with Donald Rumsfeld on your own.

MARGOLIS: I look forward to it.

ZAHN: Eric Margolis, thank you very much for joining us -- the author of "War at the Top of the World."

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