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CNN Live At Daybreak
'Wide Angle' Premiere Looks at Link Between Al Qaeda and Iraq
Aired July 11, 2002 - 09:09 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now the question this morning is, is there a clear-cut terror link between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein? Has Hussein been harboring and training al Qaeda terrorists even before September 11? Well that is the subject of tonight's premiere of "Wide Angle." It's a show on PBS.
And joining us now is the show's host, James Rubin. Looks familiar, doesn't he? Well that's because he previously served as a chief State Department spokesman in the Clinton administration. And of course he's a frequent contributor here on CNN.
Good to see you in the flesh, finally.
JAMES RUBIN, HOST OF "WIDE ANGLE": Thank you very much. Nice to be with you, Leon.
HARRIS: Now I got to ask you about this because this -- it jumps out at me immediately. You spent years fending off the media,...
RUBIN: Right.
HARRIS: ... and now you're joining the enemy. You're actually becoming one of us. How did you get talked into this anyway?
RUBIN: Well I'm dipping my toe in. Look, the -- when I was in government for many, many years, I urged the networks, the major networks, including this network, to devote greater effort, attention, money, resources to covering international news. And "Wide Angle," this program on Public Television, PBS, is going to put resources into 10 hour-long documentaries, one subject each over 10 weeks, uninterrupted, no commercials. This is the kind of serious approach to international events that I have been pushing for years and years. So when they came tome, I felt like I needed to try to give my help.
HARRIS: Well this show is getting things kicked off with a bang because one of the big bombshells that -- coming out of this show that's going to premiere now is the suggestion of a link between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. And not just a soft link here, a rather direct link is what is being -- actually being proposed here or actually being suggested.
And I want to show a piece of tape that we did call from the program here. Now as I understand, this is featuring a person who is identified as a former Iraqi colonel who has defected. And he is describing Osama bin Laden's visit to Iraq's top secret Solomon Poc (ph) training camp back in 1998.
Let's listen in to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At 4:00 a.m., we moved our positions. And at 10:00 a.m., four black Mercedes drove into the camp with heavy security. The accompanying vehicles were equipped with heavy double-barrel machine guns. Jose (ph), Saddam's son, was driving the third car. And next to him sat Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Now the main question comes up, how do you know that what this defector, if he is a defector, how do you know what he is saying here is true?
RUBIN: Well the producer of this film, a man named Glen Roberts (ph), probably has more experience in northern Iraq than any Western journalist. And he has interviewed a number of officials, and in particular, this individual's story is credible. I think the film is very clear that this is not proof but this is a sufficiently compelling allegation that deserves more investigation. Because if it's true, this is the link that the president has said is what makes Saddam Hussein so dangerous, not so much that he would use his weapons of mass destruction directly against us, but that someday, someway, somehow they would fall into the wrong hands. And if the al Qaeda organization, the bin Laden organization is now getting training or has been getting training in chemical, biological weapons, that's a pretty frightening prospect.
HARRIS: But you do -- I'm sure you're aware that the Pentagon has been telling CNN that they don't think there is a link. They have not seen themselves any proof that there is a link. Aren't you -- isn't there at least a little bit of concern here that this defector or anyone who may be telling these kind of stories may have their own agenda here?
RUBIN: Absolutely. There are two issues, Leon. One is to the extent that Saddam Hussein was involved in September 11, and that was related to whether there was this meeting in Czechoslovakia between one of the hijackers and Saddam's intelligence people. This film has nothing to do with that.
There's another issue which is whether over the years, not in relation to the September 11 attack, Saddam Hussein's intelligence people and al Qaeda have had a mutual enemy, the Kurds, and have cooperated in suppressing, oppressing and using military power against the Kurds. I think most agree that that is plausible, if not likely.
If it's gone to the next step, and in their cooperation in oppressing the Kurds the Islamic extremists of al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein are transferring technology, techniques, information that will help them get chemical weapons, that's a real problem. I don't think the Pentagon has yet commented on this particular charge. And my understanding from the guest that we interviewed is that the Pentagon is going to be looking into these new claims.
HARRIS: All right. If you were still at the State Department and this report were to come out under your watch, what do you think the reaction would be from the State Department or what do you think...
RUBIN: I know exactly what it would be. I would say these are very serious allegations. And if they are true, they are very, very worrisome and what we need to do is investigate them carefully and try to see whether they're true or not. And I suspect that at least some in the government will take that posture.
HARRIS: And we would expect to hear something like that, particularly considering they've been telling us all along they have not seen any proof of this kind of a link here.
RUBIN: With the link again that they have said they haven't seen is between the hijackers and Saddam Hussein on September 11. There have been previous reports in the "New Yorker" magazine and elsewhere about cooperation in northern Iraq. And the reaction of the government has been this is serious stuff and we're looking into it.
HARRIS: Very interesting. Jamie Rubin, making the -- crossing that divide going from a defender to, actually, now being one of us, the persecutors in the media.
RUBIN: Well when I was in government, I always didn't much like the got you journalist. And so I'm going to try to stay clear of that but have serious substantive discussion of foreign affairs.
HARRIS: Got to ask you this before we go, did Christiane give you any tips?
RUBIN: Well you know wives tend to give husbands tips on just about everything.
HARRIS: Don't I know it.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: Well listen, Jamie, good luck. All right, we'll keep an eye out for you.
RUBIN: Thank you very much.
HARRIS: And we'll be watching to see this report...
RUBIN: Appreciate it.
HARRIS: ... and those that come down the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) "Wide Angle."
RUBIN: Thank you, Leon.
HARRIS: Take care.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So we want to set the record straight here this morning, Jamie.
RUBIN: Yes.
ZAHN: So during the Clinton administration, did you ever feed -- she wasn't your wife at that time, but feed Christiane any information?
RUBIN: I gave her no more than I gave the "New York Times" reporter covering the State Department.
ZAHN: We knew that. I just wanted you to be able to say that publicly.
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