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American Morning
Interview with Brian Jenkins
Aired July 12, 2002 - 07:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: You've got to love live TV. In case you thought this show was taped, I guess we just proved it to you before the break. We were having a bit of a technical problem with Brian Jenkins, our terrorism expert, who's in Los Angeles this morning. I believe we have it straightened out -- Brian, can you hear me now?
BRIAN JENKINS, TERRORISM EXPERT: I certainly can.
HARRIS: There you go. OK. Good deal.
Thanks for coming in.
Sorry I had to wake you up in the middle of the night and to bring you in and have a little bit of a problem like that. We appreciate your patience, Brian.
JENKINS: That's OK. It is live television.
HARRIS: There you go.
All right, let's get right to the question this morning, this word coming from the Bush administration about possible al Qaeda cells operating and people being under observation right now in cities like Seattle, Atlanta, Detroit and Chicago.
What do you know about the numbers involved here? We've seen reports of maybe only 100 people or maybe 5,000 people. What do you know about that?
JENKINS: Well, I think all of these numbers have a precision that is both melodramatic and misleading. The fact is that we can't be sure how many operatives of terrorist organizations there are in the United States. These are not organizations that are like the Communist Party or the Ku Klux Klan that pay dues or put on funny costumes and have meetings.
They don't have a formal membership. These are really networks of people who are associated with one another. So it would be very, very hard to come up with any sort of a precise number.
The fact is I think we have to accept the fact that there are terrorist operatives in the United States. There probably are investigations going on, not simply in those cities that have been mentioned, but in other cities, as well.
HARRIS: Let me ask you about who these people may be. There's also worked coming from the administration that they believe that these cells may be getting some assistance from American citizens.
Now, would that be the case with these people in these different cells that are under surveillance right now? Are they American citizens or are they naturalized citizens? What do we know about them?
JENKINS: Well, certainly that would be a possibility. Keep in mind that if the authorities have very precise information about individuals who are planning to carry out a terrorist attack and the authorities know about that, we're not going to get some type of vague public announcement about that. Rather, we're going to hear about their arrest, as we heard about the arrest of Mr. Padilla when he entered the country some time ago.
The kind of information that comes into the public domain is going to be the more vague information, where there's considerable uncertainty.
Now, clearly, there are individuals under surveillance. There's always a concern that al Qaeda has made an attempt to recruit American citizens, people with American passports who could travel in and out of the country with, perhaps, less scrutiny than those from the Middle East, because, clearly, there would be some greater scrutiny for those traveling to certain countries or with certain passports.
HARRIS: You mentioned Padilla. He was arrested in Chicago, as I recall, and Chicago is on this list. Now, are we to read something in that connection there?
JENKINS: Again, I would be very careful not to draw any conclusion from the cities that were mentioned. As I say, the investigative activities are in cities that are other than those mentioned, as well. And if we go back to the September 11 attacks, there we saw that the terrorists who participated in those attacks were living in Arizona, were living in California, were living in Florida, but carried out the attack elsewhere.
So we should draw no conclusion from the residence or where someone might be under surveillance as to where an attack might take place.
HARRIS: Let me ask you about something else that also came out this week, this message that allegedly came in on some Web site from an al Qaeda member, a person claiming to be a part of the hierarchy of al Qaeda saying that Osama bin Laden was alive and that these other new waves of attacks were in the offing here, ambushes, assassinations, that sort of thing.
What do you make of that report? Do you believe Osama is alive?
JENKINS: I don't know whether he is dead or alive. But I think we have to take this seriously. They have told us in the past that they were going to attack us and they did. They are telling us they are going to attack us now. Clearly, we have to take that seriously.
At the same time, the terrorists are able to observe our reactions. They know that Americans are understandably apprehensive as a consequence of the barrage of threats that we have received since September 11. And so there is some deliberate deception and disinformation going on here. They manipulate these threats. They broadcast these threats as simply a way of increasing the alarm that we are going to feel. That's what terrorism is all about.
HARRIS: All right. A final question, I want to get back to these so-called sleeper cells here in the States. In your estimation, are we talking here about people who are hardened al Qaeda members or just maybe a lot of people who happen to be bin Laden sympathizers?
JENKINS: It's very difficult to say. You know, if you look at any terrorist organization, at the very core there will be a small number of people who are the dedicated operators. Surrounding them will be a greater number who will support them actively by, perhaps, documents or vehicles or some other type of material support, but won't participate in the operation.
Surrounding them is a larger population of supporters who will participate in no operation, provide no support, but nonetheless share the same beliefs as the terrorists.
HARRIS: Brian Jenkins, thanks for the briefing and thanks for the patience, too, this morning. We sure do appreciate it.
JENKINS: That's OK. Thank you.
HARRIS: All right, you have a good one out there. Take care.
Brian Jenkins, terrorism expert, joining us from Los Angeles this morning.
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