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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Robert Pearlman, Alan Rosen

Aired July 13, 2002 - 12:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The moon has a dark side. A Miami area man is fighting the federal government over a moon rock. The pebble was one of many that came to earth on Apollo 17 in 1972. President Nixon had some of the rocks encased and presented them to world leaders as gifts. One went to then dictator of Honduras somehow -- and it's a very complicated story here -- a businessman by the name of Alan Rosen bought the rock years later. The federal government seized it in a 1998 sting operation. It says the stone belongs to the people of Honduras, not Mr. Rosen.

Well, Alan Rosen joins us from Miami this afternoon. And Robert Pearlman, editor of CollectSpace.com is in Washington. Welcome to both of you. Thanks for joining us.

All right, well, Robert, I want to begin with you, and what a commodity any article going up in space truly is. How much would it fetch off your Web site?

ROBERT PEARLMAN, EDITOR, COLLECTSPACE.COM: Well, there are various levels of -- from the low hundreds to the millions of dollars that an item that was flown in space or reached the moon or reached the surface of the moon can reach.

WHITFIELD: Perhaps some examples. Lunar dust.

PEARLMAN: Well, In 1999, Christie's auctions a patch that covered in lunar dust -- and what you're looking at now is a very small -- that little tiny white triangle that you're seeing -- now you can't even really see the dust in it. That sold for between $1,500 and $2,000. And it's the type of item we sell on CollectSpace.com.

But that was actually obtained through a transfer between NASA and then to a private organization and then to an auction, where the documentation is very clear.

WHITFIELD: Another item is a piece of cloth that accompanied an astronaut?

PEARLMAN: Yes. They -- it's actually a piece of a moon rock bag that was used to collect the rocks on the surface. Then it was presented to a NASA employee as a gift. That NASA employee then cut up it up into small triangles and sold it. That's between $500 and $1,000. And that could have lunar dust on it because it was on the surface of the moon. WHITFIELD: OK. And then, gold foil of some sort.

PEARLMAN: Well, in addition to the actual lunar dust stained items, the artifacts from the spacecraft itself are very desirable. Outside the capsule that took the astronauts to the moon was covered in gold foil. It's called capped-on (ph) foil, and that sells between $100 and $500.

WHITFIELD: So now we're talking about this 1.14 gram chunk of the moon that at least used to be in the possession of Alan. How much would something like that fetch? How valuable would that piece be?

PEARLMAN: It's really hard to say, because an actual moon rock brought back from the Apollo astronauts is not something that sold before on the U.S. market. There have been small lunar pebbles that were sold by the Soviets -- well, not the Soviets, the Russians. The Soviets launched robotic probes to the moon; brought back some soil. That sold for $700,000. I would say it's not a fair stretch to say that at a really public auction like Christie's or Sotheby's that it could reach upward of $1 million or $2 million.

WHITFIELD: Wow. OK, so Robert, so hold tight real quick because I am going to put Alan back in. We made these comparisons as to try to ascertain the value of that piece of moon rock that you had, Alan, in your possession at least once. Now the federal government has it, as we explained a bit earlier. Now, you purchased this for about $20,000. Is that right? But it is your hope...

ALAN ROSEN, PURCHASED MOON ROCK: Well, actually...

WHITFIELD: What?

ROSEN: I'm sorry. The price was actually around $50,000.

WHITFIELD: Oh, OK. Excuse me. Let's not short-change that piece of rock there then. So you were hoping to make at least that much back. Is that right, when you were planning to perhaps sell it?

ROSEN: Well, in 1995 there was a sale for three tiny specks of moon dust from the cosmonaut program, the Russian program that you mentioned, at Sotheby's. That actually brought over $500,000. And they were much, much smaller. I was offering this rock at $5 million. And in the year after the study -- I studied this on the Internet -- and I was convinced that the value was certainly that much, and I would say that now -- excuse me?

WHITFIELD: I didn't say anything, go ahead. Keep going. Maybe you're getting some kind of extraneous noise in your earpiece. I'm listening intently.

ROSEN: I was convinced that the -- now because of the lunar -- because of the publicity and somewhat notoriety of it that the value could be well up into the tens or $15 million.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Well, the U.S. government is saying, hold it, time out. This is wrong, and this is why they have taken you to court on it. They are saying that this originally was a gift to one of many world leaders, and that perhaps their position would be if you were intending to use this for educational purposes, maybe, you know, they'd give in on that. But instead you're trying to make a profit for something that they never had any intent of bringing any kind of monetary reward. So, you know, how do you make your argument that what you're doing is fair play?

ROSEN: Well, basically, my intention was not just to make a profit. My intention was because I had spent over 35 years traveling and working and doing various businesses in the country to finance various businesses, set up a Gremin (ph) bank perhaps with -- to provide low interest loans for agriculture and artisans and mini- businesses, and certainly the need in Honduras is great. I have two children that are half-Honduran, and a lot of family of theirs is down there, and I have many friends.

WHITFIELD: So, Alan, how close are you to the end of this fight?

ROSEN: Well, I would think that we are -- we have not had a trial yet. We have not -- however, I would think that if it's possible that we would come to an agreement with the Honduran government that it could be a win/win situation. The Hondurans have a second plaque. It was presented in 1975 from the Apollo 11 program.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, isn't it true, Alan, that Honduras wants that rock back?

ROSEN: Well, they have asked for it back. It was not seized based on that claim. What it was seized for was that it came in illegally, and of course that was not true. So the government has dropped that. However, I would be very happy if we could come to a -- I think we could have a win/win situation. The government of Honduras is desperately in need of money, since Midge (ph) and the droughts and the other natural disasters that they have had...

WHITFIELD: OK.

ROSEN: ... they need money desperately, and I would be very happy to work out with them a plan where they would have millions of dollars of financing for programs that are desperately needed.

WHITFIELD: Alan Rosen, thank you.

And Robert Pearlman, I will let you have the last word. One word answer, real quick, should that rock be returned to Alan?

PEARLMAN: Yes. Under current Honduran law, yes.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. Thanks very much, both of you gentlemen, for joining me this hour.

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