Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Hassle With State Department For Reporter Who's Written Critical Articles About Visa Express Program

Aired July 15, 2002 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Major hassle with the State Department for a reporter who has written several critical articles about its visa express program in Saudi Arabia. The journalist says he was detained by security, at a State Department news briefing, after he produced a copy of a classified cable.

Joel Mowbray has been covering the controversial visa program for the "National Review." He joins us, now, from Washington.

Welcome back, Joel. Good to see you.

JOEL MOWBRAY, NATIONAL REVIEW: Good morning.

ZAHN: First of all, what are the specific problems you have with this visa express program, which you have been quite critical of, in your writing?

MOWBRAY: Well, three of the September 11 hijackers didn't visit a consulate or an embassy to get their visa. They went to a travel agent. They submitted a two-page form and a photo to a private Saudi travel agent, and then, they went home and waited for their visa to come in the mail.

They were never interviewed, and they never came in contact with a U.S. citizen until stepping off the airplane on to American soil. Now, the consular or the embassy did process the paperwork, but they never had that eye-to-eye contact with any of those individuals. And the program has stayed in place, now, 10 months after 9/11.

ZAHN: And how does the State Department defend this program?

MOWBRAY: Well, the State Department tries to pass off these private Saudi travel agents as mere document collectors. But in a cable that was sent from Riyadh this week, the one that was the source of much of the problems, -- or, actually, last week, I should say, -- the ambassador said that doing away with visa express would require a lot more resources to come in because the travel agents were fulfilling a vital role and saving them time and money.

ZAHN: Let's talk about this cable for a moment that got you into some trouble. You had obtained a copy of it that was sent from the U.S. ambassador in Saudi Arabia, which the State Department said was classified, and you shouldn't have a copy of it, which led to this exchange with State Department spokesman, Richard Boucher, last week. Let's listen.

MOWBRAY: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOWBRAY: The ambassador asked, in the cable this week, to terminate the program and to interview all applicants. Is that correct?

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: No --

MOWBRAY: I have the cable here.

BOUCHER: Well, I've read the cable too. And I think if you read it, carefully, even though it's confidential, if you happen to have it, you'll find that he says he's asking for resources, he asking for consular people to go out there. And that's what we're talking to him about. I mean, I do have to point out, sir, that you've written a lot of things and said a lot of things, recently. You said that visas are decided by travel agents. And that's not true, is it? ...

MOWBRAY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) It was passed on to the consular at the embassy from the travel agents --

BOUCHER: ... You've said that the - this is the only country that we do accept documents from third parties. And that's not true, is it?

MOWBRAY: That was told to me by the State Department press office. I have the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, what is this all about, your reporting?

MOWBRAY: Yeah, and I -- you know, they've considered me a thorn in their side, but all I'm doing is my job. I'm just reporting the facts. And I have sources within consular affairs, within the State Department, domestically and overseas, and I have a duty, as an obligation, to bring the truth to light. And, you know, if it wasn't for having sources within the State Department, or within the government, the people would never be able to hold the government accountable for its actions.

ZAHN: You kind of tripped, there. You said within the State Department, within the government. Is that the problem, there, who your sources are?

MOWBRAY: Well, no, I mean, I have sources within the State Department and other, you know, branches of the government, as well. But, specifically, things relating to the State Department, yes, I have sources within the State Department, as any good journalist would. But, you know, the larger point here, is they were trying to get my source. And there's no way I would give up a source. I mean, I'd rather go to jail than give up a source because that is the backbone of democracy, and freedom is that people are able to hold their elected officials and the government that is supposed to represent them accountable.

ZAHN: Joel, we wanted to share with you what the State Department's response is today. We asked a representative to come on AMERICAN MORNING, and they declined our offer. But, here, is a statement they sent us.

"During the July 12 daily press briefing, a reporter said on the record, during a televised briefing, that he had a cable. The cable was known to be a classified State Department cable. The diplomatic security service dispatched an agent to speak to the reporter about the cable, and retain it, if it was in his possession. The agent ascertained that the reporter did not have the cable with him. The reporter departed the building. The entire process took approximately 15 minutes. The diplomatic security service is responsible for the protection of classified information and investigates all alleged leaks of classified information to the fullest possible extent."

Is it possible you're blowing this all out of whack here?

MOWBRAY: You know, it's funny. When I was in the hallway, having four armed guards circling me like sharks, one of the plain clothed diplomatic security service detectives walked up to me and he said, "Sir, you're blowing this way out of proportion." I said, "Am I being detained?", and he said, "No." I said, "Ok, I'm leaving," and then, he, immediately, steps right in front of me, and says, "Now, you're being detained."

ZAHN: And for how long did that last?

MOWBRAY: The total process was about 30 minutes. You know, but quibbling over the details, I think, misses the larger point.

ZAHN: Well, quibbling over the details is kind of essential because they said you were never detained. They were asking you questions. They said it was 15 minutes. Now you're saying it's 30.

MOWBRAY: Well, it was 30 minutes, but, yes, I was detained, and I was told that by the detective with the diplomatic security service. And, I think, they even changed their story afterwards. Initially, they were trying to say I wasn't detained, and, now I believe, they acknowledge that I was.

ZAHN: What do you plan to do about this, anything else? Or is this the end of that story?

MOWBRAY: I plan to go back to the press briefing, today, and ask more tough questions, but carry on a good collegiate relationship with the press office, and hope that I can respect that their doing their jobs, and they can respect that I'm doing mine.

ZAHN: What's the likelihood sparking another confrontation with Mr. Boucher?

MOWBRAY: There might be another confrontation, but, you know, again, that's just part of two professionals doing their jobs. And he has to, you know, be very good at answering questions, and I have to ask tough ones. And that's just the nature of the game.

ZAHN: Joel Mowbray. Thank you for dropping by AMERICAN MORNING to help us understand what was going on.

MOWBRAY: Thanks for having me.

ZAHN: Even though, as we just -- pretty evident that the State Department response is little different than what they describe, but nevertheless, we appreciate your side of the story, as well.

Take care.

MOWBRAY: Thanks for having me here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com