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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Lindh Pleads Guilty; Is bin Laden Still Alive?; Are There al Qaeda Sleeper Agents in Seattle?
Aired July 15, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATE SNOW, GUEST HOST: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Surprise. A Taliban-American says he's guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MCNULTY, U.S. ATTORNEY: Oh, he's pleading to the fact that he was a foot soldier in the Taliban's army.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Why does this man believe Osama bin Laden is alive and well? I'll ask him.
On the terror trail: Are there sleepers in Seattle? What investigators picked up.
Panic on Wall Street: What will it take to stop the stampede?
And how soon is too soon to head off a deadly disease? Advice that can save your life.
It's Monday, July 15, 2002. I'm Kate Snow in Washington. Wolf Blitzer is off tonight.
The government is calling it a victory in the war against terrorism, a legal battle fought in conference rooms, not in open court, a surprise plea agreement for a Taliban American. We begin our coverage with CNN national correspondent, Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The deal had been struck about midnight, just some nine hours before John Walker Lindh came back to court, so secret that Judge T.S. Ellis (ph) only found out shortly before he took the bench. Lindh pleaded guilty to two charges: illegally providing help to Taliban and a new one, carrying explosives, grenades, in the process. The government dropped all other counts, including conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals, among them CIA operative Johnny (sic) Spann. Instead of a possible life sentence, John Walker Lindh, the so-called Taliban American, faces 20 years in prison.
Prosecutors declared victory. MCNULTY: This is a tough sentence. This is an appropriate punishment. And this case proves that the criminal justice system can be an effective tool in combating terrorism.
FRANKEN: The plea-bargaining intensified last week after President Bush signed off on the negotiations. The deal was struck just as two sides prepared to fight in court over whether alleged confessions and statements made by Walker Lindh on battlefield could be used at trial. Defense attorneys knew they faced an uphill battle.
JAMES BROSNAHAN, WALKER LINDH ATTORNEY: I think the factors included, among other things, the environment in which we're all living. But people are somewhat frightened. They are upset. It would have been difficult.
FRANKEN: Walker Lindh was asked by the judge, "Do you feel you're able to make decisions about your future today?" In a quite voice, the defendant said, "Yes." As he entered courtroom, Lindh gave a broad smile to members of his family, but the mood was somber as he left.
NAOMI LINDH, SISTER: I love my brother very much. I just want him to come home, but I know it's not going to happen. But he's been so strong, and we had to be strong for him.
FRANK LINDH, FATHER: Nelson Mandela served 26 years in prison. He's a good man, like John. Some day I hope -- I hope that the government will come around even further and say that even 20 years is wrong for this boy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: His detractors say that the only thing that John Walker Lindh had in common with Nelson Mandela is the long time he's going to serve in prison, up to 20 years. But now that the government has softened its position, Kate, he will not be spending the rest of his life behind bars -- Kate.
SNOW: CNN's Bob Franken outside the courthouse. Thanks.
Where does he go from here? Walker Lindh has asked to serve his prison time near his family in California. Possibilities include the U.S. penitentiary at Lompoc (ph), near Vandenberg Air Force Base, Terminal Island in Los Angeles harbor, or Victorville (ph), in San Bernardino.
Would John Walker Lindh have fared much worse if his case had gone to trial? His lawyer says the Taliban American never hurt anybody and was simply overtaken by history. Joining us for his first one-on-one interview since the plea deal was announced is defense attorney James Brosnahan.
Thanks for being with us today.
BROSNAHAN: You're welcome. It's nice to be with you.
SNOW: Let me start with obvious. Why did you make a deal? Was it your idea? Was it your client's idea?
BROSNAHAN: Well, I think a mutual idea. There was a suggestion of it by a U.S. attorney in another district. I heard about it. I talked to Dave Kelly (ph) and asked him if there was anything worth talking about. That was about six weeks ago and it started. At point where it became clear that the government would be willing to dismiss all terrorist charges and the charge that John conspired to kill Americans, it became something that we had to pay serious attention to, and we did.
SNOW: Twenty years is an awfully long time, still. But you and the family seem upbeat about all of this. Why?
BROSNAHAN: Well, I think we are. You know, when you look at what John's been through at the -- in the basement of Kwala Jungi (ph) in Afghanistan, I think he's been saved to do something good in his life. And he's -- he's OK with the 20 years. It is a long time, I agree with you. But he's OK with it. It could have been -- it could have been a lot worse. There were ten counts. Three of them called for life sentences. And even if, as we -- as we saw it, we might get very fortunate in the case and maybe only get convicted of one or two crimes, that could be 40 years quite easily. So that was the problem.
SNOW: What's his life going to be like now? I know he's requested to go to California, if possible. But what do you envision next 20 years being like for him?
BROSNAHAN: Well, I -- I know John quite well. I've spent hours with him, as my colleagues have, as well. He's a scholarly person. He very much wants to study. When we discussed the terms of this plea bargain, he wanted to be sure he could study not only Arabic, not only Islam, but also other subjects, American history, political history. He's a thinking sort of a person, and he thinks about things and then he goes from there. But we're trying to get him to California, if we can. His family is there, his mother and father, his sister and brother. They've stood by him. They've been like rocks. They've just been great.
SNOW: There's a lot of hate out there, as you know. There are a lot of people who don't find much to like about your client. Is he going to safe?
BROSNAHAN: I understand that. Yes, I think he's going to be safe. And I think some of it will be dissipated by fact that he forthrightly went into court this morning. This verdict is true. The thing about this verdict is it's true. It does reflect what he did. He was a soldier in the Taliban army in the northern part of Afghanistan, fighting the Northern Alliance. It has nothing to do with the Americans.
SNOW: But will he always be viewed as a terrorist? I mean, that's what attorney general suggested today.
BROSNAHAN: Yeah. Well, the last time the attorney general spoke, he declared that he had evidence to show everything that he could prove. But today nine of those counts fell like stones and are gone. So no, he is not a terrorist. I've not heard what the attorney general said, but if he said there's anything in this case that establishes John as a terrorist, I think he'd better read the pleadings.
SNOW: He called it a victory against -- in the war on terrorism.
BROSNAHAN: Well, I don't know if it is or not. I'll let other people decide that. But what I will say is that the assistant U.S. attorneys here and the U.S. attorney acted very professionally. We dealt with them, in a way. You hear so many stories about how the system doesn't work, the legal system doesn't work. I think, in its own way here, with the assistance of this judge -- I think it worked pretty well here.
SNOW: James Brosnahan, attorney for David (sic) Walker Lindh, in his first interview since this plea deal was struck. I appreciate your being with us.
BROSNAHAN: Thank you very much. Nice to be with you.
SNOW: Thank you.
As we've heard, President Bush signed off on the government's position during the plea bargaining last week and was briefed on this final deal this morning just before it was presented to the court. And the Justice Department says justice was done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: And I think it's a matter of credit to our hard-working prosecutors that Lindh was charged and convicted with the crimes for he was charged in less than -- well, just a little over five months since he was apprehended. We believe that our case was a strong case, that this is an appropriate outcome and that it marks an important victory for the United States of America in the war against terror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Still, should the government have tried for a tougher sentence? Joining us is U.S. attorney Paul McNulty. It is also his first one-on-one interview since the deal was announced. Mr. McNulty, thanks for being with us, as well.
MCNULTY: You're very welcome.
SNOW: Tell me about this deal. Some have said it's a sell-out, it's too easy on him. You had so much against him, you said. You said you were confident in your case. Why settle for this?
MCNULTY: Well, 20 years can never be viewed as a soft sentence or a sell-out. Twenty years is a very tough sentence. Twenty years is a sentence that is reserved for the most serious offenders in our criminal justice system. Many states have murder penalties that begin at 20 years. So I think we have to view that in itself as being a significant sentence. SNOW: The attorney General himself, though, in February, if I can go back to something he said -- he talked about Lindh being eligible for multiple life sentences. He seemed to want to throw the book at this guy.
MCNULTY: Well, the case against him was strong, and our indictment covered a range of offenses. And we were prepared to prove all of those charges. Mr. Brosnahan says that the counts fell like stones. That's not true at all. We set those charges aside in exchange for his guilty plea to two counts, two charges that carry 20 years imprisonment. And so the indictment is a very valid document. It represents exactly what the government was prepared to prove. And I'm confident that we would have proven those charges if this case had gone to trial.
We had to make a judgment. What was worth saving the resources that prosecuting this case would involve for a 20-year sentence, his cooperation, and his lifetime ban from any activity that's associated with terrorism. And I think when we weighed that all out, we felt it was a reasonable and good idea to take this 20-year sentence.
SNOW: Let me tell you what father of Mike Spann said. He's the CIA officer that was killed in Afghanistan. He said this today. Quote, "I am very disappointed. My son and all those who are serving overseas have been let down by this decision."
What do you say to that family?
MCNULTY: Well, first of all, there's nothing we can say to that family to help them deal with the pain of losing their son. That was a horrendous crime, and we all understand that. And we can understand his frustration with the fact that his son was victimized that way.
But his views I don't think represent the vast majority of those men and women in military. We had a number of them here with us today who were going to be witnesses in our hearings this week, and they were quite satisfied, in fact, quite pleased. They recognized that this was a significant sentence. I personally told them of the sentence, and the reaction was very positive. They also understood that we were actually drawing upon military resources to prosecute this case involving privates to generals that was going to take really thousands of fighting hours. And that was an important concern.
SNOW: But let -- let...
MCNULTY: But we were prepared do it, if we had to. And I think there would have been no question that we would have prevailed if we went forward.
SNOW: Let me ask you quickly about something his attorney just said, and that is you found him guilty. He has pled guilty to aiding the Taliban. But his attorneys say he's not pleading guilty to being a terrorist, and therefore you've fallen short, that this is not a big victory.
MCNULTY: Right. That -- that's, I think, a mischaracterization of what's occurred. He has pled guilty to the core counts or the core charges in this case. He has pled guilty to providing services to Taliban, and he has admitted in the court papers that the Taliban provides protection and sanctuary to al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So by providing services to the Taliban, he had engaged in a felony act which involved an act of terrorism. And so his charges are really at the core of what this case is, providing service to an organization that is associated with terrorism and carrying explosives in the furtherance of that act.
SNOW: What does the U.S. government hope to get out of him now? You've mentioned that he's going to cooperate. He's going to be interviewed, I presume. What -- what can he tell the U.S. government about the Taliban or about al Qaeda?
MCNULTY: Well, we don't know. And when a person has a lawyer representing him, we cannot talk to him directly. And so this will be the first time we can actually hear from him in the interviews, debriefings that will occur. And we don't know what those will amount to. We'll just take every step we can to get as much information. Even the smallest bit of information may connect up with something else that we know which could be very helpful. And he will be polygraphed, as well, and that will be a tool in deciding his cooperation and truthfulness.
SNOW: Paul McNulty, U.S. attorney, involved very heavily in this case. Appreciate your time tonight, as well.
MCNULTY: You're very welcome.
SNOW: Thank you.
Here's your chance now to weigh in on this story. Our Web question of the day: Is 20 years an appropriate sentence for John Walker Lindh? You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. And while you're there, let us know what you're thinking. Send us your comments, and we will read some of them each night on the air. Also read our daily on-line column at cnn.com/wolf.
Islamic groups in Pakistan are warning of a backlash against the United States after a Pakistani court there sentenced a British-born Muslim to death for masterminding the kidnapping and murder of "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Daniel Pearl. Three accomplices were sentenced to life in prison. CNN's Tom Mintier is in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, with the details -- Tom.
TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, the verdict was pretty well expected. It had been held in reserve for a week by the judge, but after the prosecution and the defense presented their summations to the court, everyone assumed that they would all be found guilty. No one was quote, sure, though, about the death sentence. Omar Sheikh joins 79 other people on death row right now. In Pakistan the death penalty is carried out by hanging, but it may take some time. It is going to be seven days before deadline passes for the appeal to the high court. And once the high court hears this case, it's quite possible it could move on to Pakistan's supreme court. But everyone here is bracing for the potential after-effects. If, indeed, a threat that was issued in the courtroom, passed through his attorney, by Omar Sheikh to take revenge for the sentencing and the death penalty is carried out, it might mean that there are more terrorist attacks here in Pakistan, something that the government is taking quite seriously. Security has been beefed up around the embassies here in Islamabad, and in Karachi, helicopters could be seen flying over the city shortly after the verdict was read. So they are bracing for the possibility that this threat is really carried out.
But it could be some time before this case is really finished. Police say they have at least a half a dozen other suspects that may be more directly involved with the actual murder of Daniel Pearl, and they're still seeking them. And there's a possibility that there'll be another trial.
I'm Tom Mintier, CNN, in Islamabad, Pakistan.
SNOW: The markets took a beating today, just as President Bush was giving a booster speech on the economy. Are there any signs pointing up, or is there more room to fall? Money matters, when we return. Also, a grand jury is looking into what may be a serious terror threat in Seattle. And Osama bin Laden, dead or alive? A report says he's doing just fine and survived a minor shrapnel wound.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In spite of the fact that we've been in a slump for a while and in spite of the fact that the terrorists attacked us and affected our economic outlook, American business and workers are resilient and resolved, and this economy is coming back. That's the fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Despite President Bush's assurances about the economy during that speech in Birmingham, Alabama, today, the stock markets remained volatile, the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropping for a sixth straight day. It was down more than 400 points before a late- afternoon rally cut that loss to 45 points.
Is the worst over, or will the slide continue? Liz Ann Sonders is managing director for U.S. Trust, one of America's oldest investment management and trust companies. She joins us now.
Liz Ann, let me start by asking you if your phones were ringing off the hook? Are investors going nuts? I imagine they are.
LIZ ANN SONDERS, MANAGING DIRECTOR, U.S. TRUST: You know, surprisingly, the phones have not been ringing off the hook. I think this has been ongoing now for a couple of years, and I don't know whether it's sort of a sense of resignation or certain investors are willing to ride through this very difficult time. And we're -- you know, at least at our firm, we're not seeing the kind of panic that a day like today in the market would suggest you're seeing.
SNOW: You and I talked about how there's no "one size fits all" kind of recommendation that you can make on a day like this, but start with people who are close to retirement. What do you do -- what do you tell them on a day like today? I mean, they're pretty worried.
SONDERS: They sure are worried. And you know, it's hard to time the markets. I think that's -- that's a very difficult task. So it is hard to say when you precisely hit bottom. But even for somebody who is on the verge of retirement, given the life expectancy, assuming that age is a typical retirement age, there is a fairly ample amount of time to probably recoup some of these losses. And I think for those investors who have had money invested in equities through this downturn, I don't think selling out now, capitulating, throwing in the towel, all of those different terms that you hear, is probably the appropriate thing. I don't think, with a reasonably long time horizon, even five years from now, you'll look back at having sold now as having been the right strategy.
SNOW: Is now a good time to buy, on the other hand? Someone younger who's just wanting to get in, is it a good time to start down there at the bottom?
SONDERS: Well, I think any -- there's no wrong time to start an investment program, an investment strategy. I think one of the lessons learned over the last couple of years is the need to have a plan, have a sense of time horizon, be diversified. And I don't think there's ever a wrong time for that. And certainly, the kinds of prices you're paying for equities in this environment are a lot cheaper than was the case a couple of years ago.
SNOW: Let's take a look at the chart that we have of what happened today. It dramatically shows that wild ride that we had today. Look at that graph throughout the day today. It looks like it bottomed out there in the afternoon. Why did this even happen today? Do you know? I mean, do we -- do we -- are there multiple reasons?
SONDERS: Yeah. I mean, there are multiple reason. I think, in general, what has plagued the market is somewhat obvious issues of corporate malfeasance and accounting fraud and concerns about terrorism. But today's action was interesting because, as you mentioned, you've had six down days in a row. And you hit today, and there was this massive selling. And about 2:40 this afternoon, the volume of declining stocks outpaced the volume on rising stocks by a 15-to-1 ratio. Normally, people that look at this type of analysis tend to see a 9 or a 10-to-1 ratio as a significant bottom in market. And again, we got to 15-to-1. It was precisely at that point that you saw the market rally -- in case of the Dow, almost a 400-point rally. That was pretty impressive.
SNOW: The president gave his second speech in a week, basically, this morning, trying to rally and say, you know, the economy's doing well. Why is that message not getting through? Is there a disconnect?
SONDERS: Well, I think right now we're in a beginning of earnings season. I think people want to actually see whether the economic strength that we've been seeing is going to be translated into earnings growth. And I also think the criticism of Bush has been that it's a lot of words and not a lot of action. So I think the market wants to both see a confirmation of the economic growth and improved earnings, and wait to see if there's actually any action that comes out of government. I think an important upcoming date is mid- August, when companies do have to confirm and sign off on the validity of their financial statements.
SNOW: Liz Ann Sonders, managing director for U.S. trust. Appreciate your time tonight.
SONDERS: Thank you very much.
SNOW: Thanks.
Looking at headlines now from around the world. Concern about the stock market is depressing U.S. currency, making European currency more attractive. For the first time in almost two-and-a-half years, one euro is now worth about the same amount as one U.S. dollar. The stronger euro makes European products and vacations more expensive for Americans.
In France, a man accused of trying to assassinate French president Jacques Chirac has been committed to a mental hospital. Authorities say the 25-year-old man, described as a neo-Nazi, fired a rifle near Mr. Chirac during a Bastille Day parade in Paris. Mr. Chirac was unharmed.
Updating a story we first told you about last week: There has been a peaceful conclusion to a four-day hostage standoff outside Mexico City. Farmers protesting plans to build an airport on their land have released all 19 captives after the government freed several men arrested during violent street demonstrations.
A secret grand jury investigating a terror plot in Seattle.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Martin Savidge.
Seattle is known for a number of things -- coffee, beauty. But federal investigators are wondering if it could be home to something else, al Qaeda sympathizers. And if so, could they be up to something? I'll have latest on their investigation coming up.
SNOW: Plus, did the U.S. Miss bin Laden by a hair? An interview from London on the most wanted man in the world. Also, saving lives. Why a visit to the doctor for heart tests as early as the age of 20 is being advised.
First our news quiz. Which chronic disease is the number-one killer in America? Is it cancer, stroke, heart disease or HIV-AIDS? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SNOW: Welcome back. I'm Kate Snow in Washington. Wolf Blitzer is off tonight.
Coming up: terror cells in Seattle. A grand jury is investigating a possible plot against the water supply. Details on that in just a moment. First a look at some stories making news now.
Arthur is the first tropical storm of the Atlantic hurricane season. The weather system was upgraded from a tropical depression today. Arthur is spinning more than 300 miles off Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, packing sustained winds of 50 miles an hour. The storm is moving east-northeast and is not expected to threaten land.
A wildfire is burning along the California-Nevada border, in a remote area about 40 miles southeast of Lake Tahoe. Lightning started it on Saturday. Since then, it's burned more than 6,000 acres. One hundred fifty people have been urged to leave.
In Wisconsin, emergency crews are on the scene of a freight train derailment about 35 miles northwest of Milwaukee. At least a dozen cars jumped the track. An intense fire broke out, billowing smoke that can be seen for miles. There's no word yet on injuries or whether any hazardous materials are involved.
Possible al Qaeda members are the target of a grand jury investigation in Seattle, and there are indications water supply facilities may have been targeted. CNN's Martin Savidge is in Seattle with the latest details -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Hello, Kate. This is a very complicated, very convoluted investigation that is still ongoing. So let me do my best to try to put it in a nutshell for you. Federal authorities and local police say they are very interested in a number individuals, described as a "handful," in the Seattle area that all are members or were members of a now defunct mosque in downtown Seattle. The Dar el Salaam mosque was heavily damaged in the earthquake that struck this area last year. As a result, it's closed.
Authorities aren't interested in the building so much as they are with a number of individuals that parade there. One of those individuals, a 32-year-old man, said to be a British national from Sierra Leon, is in custody. He was arrested in May on charges of violating immigration laws. He's not been charged with anything pertaining to terrorism. Authorities say a search of his Seattle area home turned up documents that were linked to Abu Hamza (ph). Now Abu Hamza (ph) is a Muslim imam in London who's been an outspoken supporter of Osama bin Laden.
Also, federal authorities say the same search of the same house turned up what they say were documents talking about water supply distribution. That raised a red flag. There were concerns about a possible threat to Seattle's water supply. Alerts went out. Security has been beefed up.
Now, the same individual in custody, in 1999, lived on a ranch in a remote part of southern Oregon. That was actually in an area that's described as Bly, Oregon, a property that is said to be about 250 acres. And investigators are wondering if it was possibly being scouted out for use as a terrorist training camp.
Now, CNN's been down in the area, been all around the ranch and talked to people who have lived in that area. There is no evidence to suggest right now that it was ever used as a terrorist training camp.
And finally, three other individuals from this same now defunct mosque are being investigated by federal authorities. No one is saying that these men are part of a sleeper cell for al Qaeda. They are merely saying that there enough information out there to raise concerns. And that's pretty much it in a nutshell, Kate.
SNOW: And that is a complicated story. Martin Savidge in Seattle, thank you.
A London-based magazine reports Osama bin Laden is in good health after being wounded in Afghanistan during U.S. air strikes last December. And bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorist network reportedly is planning another attack against targets in the United States, according to that magazine. The editor of the "al-Quds" magazine, Abdel Bari Atwan, joins us now from London.
Thanks for being with us this evening. Let me start with...
ABDEL BARI ATWAN, EDITOR, "AL-QUDS" MAGAZINE: You're welcome.
SNOW: ... the basics. CNN reported back in April that there were reports that bin Laden had been injured while in Tora Bora. You say now, in your magazine, that you know this to be true. I know you don't want to discuss or reveal sources. We certainly understand that, but how -- can you give us some idea how confident you are in those reports?
ATWAN: Well, I'm, you know, pretty confident because if you remember in April, the last videotape of Osama bin Laden, his left shoulder was completely paralyzed and he couldn't lift -- he couldn't move his left-hand. And we know that he's left-handed. So, it was clearly -- he was injured. So I think for this information and -- you know it was confirmed to me that he was injured during the bombing of Tora Bora and other Afghani areas. And he -- there was a shrapnel in his left shoulder. So -- and recently -- I don't know maybe two or three months ago -- he was under operation and a surgeon removed the shrapnel from his left shoulder. And now, he is in very, very good health.
SNOW: So was this a very serious wound?
ATWAN: Well, you know, it was a serious wound, but it wasn't really a killing one. And after the operation took place, you know, the man now is really absolutely 100 percent fit as it was assured to me.
SNOW: You report also that bin Laden is not going to appear again in any of thee videotapes, as we've seen in the past, until you say, after his followers again attack in America. Do your sources indicate that there's an attack coming? When? Where? ATWAN: Well, actually, yes, they are saying that there will be imminent attack. Osama bin Laden and his groups who are criticized a lot because they have a lot of rhetoric. They simply -- they said -- they issued a lot of threats against the United States, against west, but these kind of threats never materialize. So that -- the line is like that.
Osama bin Laden, he would not like to appear and repeat the same rhetoric, the same threats unless there is something really happening on the ground. So now, he is letting his spokesman to actually, you know, release to us about what's happening, like, Suleiman Abu-Gheith, the spokesman of al Qaeda.
So he is waiting for something to happen in order to surface again. And maybe send a videotape to CNN or al Jazeera to say, "Look, here I am. I am still alive. I'm still in control. And this operation indication that -- or this attack is indicating clearly that we are still in control."
SNOW: Do you have an indication for how -- where he is and how many people are around him at this point? Is he all alone? Is he in a large group?
ATWAN: Well, vividly, al Qaeda was really weakened by the target bombing of, you know, Tora Bora and other places. They are deprived from the freedom of movement as they used to be before the bombing and definitely many of al Qaeda members were actually killed. And so, now they are running here and there. But seems they are regrouping again and I'm not surprised that he's moving between the Pakistani and Afghani border in the tribal area, which is very, very, you know, out of central government's control of Pakistan.
SNOW: Abdel Bari Atwan, the editor of "al-Quds" magazine in London tonight. Thanks for joining us.
For 10 months, debris from the World Trade Center has been brought to a Staten Island landfill, where crews sifted through it for victims' remains and personal effects. Today, that work ended with a ceremony marking another post September 11 milestone. CNN's Jason Carroll was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a short ceremony. It was relatively simple. We heard from members of the New York City Police Department. We also heard from the mayor, as well as the governor. It was an inspirational ceremony as well, especially to the family members who come out to the site.
This is the site where more than 1.5 million tons of debris from the World Trade Center ended up. For the past 10 months, detective and workers, basically from all over the country, some of them volunteering their own time to come out here and search through the debris and the rubble to try to identify and search for remains.
New York City's Mayor Michael Bloomberg came out today and said that "We will never forget those who died." But he also said, "It is important to remember all of the firefighters, the police officers, the sanitation workers who helped out during the recovery effort."
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK CITY: You know, right here we see the best and the worst. We are here because of the worst of humanity, the terrorists who caused so many deaths and so much pain. And I will make a commitment to all of you here. We will not forget the 2,800 people who died the same way people have been dying for 226 years, to make this the greatest country in the world, where we can be free. We will not forget.
CARROLL: Governor George Pataki pointed out how important it was to the family members to try and get back any sort of personal items from the victims who died in the World Trade Center. The workers here were able to recover 54,000 personal items from victims from the World Trade Center. Sometimes it was a wedding ring, other times it was just a personal photo.
That was especially significant to the Doyle family. Bill Doyle lost his son, Joey, in the World Trade Center disaster. He worked at Cantor Fitzgerald. The workers here were able to recover his driver's license. Bill Doyle coming out here today. He says it was part of the grieving process for him to be out here and attend the ceremony.
Two thousand, eight hundred, twenty-three people died during the World Trade Center disaster. The medical examiner is expected to identify 2,800 victims. The work will continue, even though the work here has ended.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And honors for two men who helped rescue victims of the September 11 Pentagon attack. Eric Moreland Jones and Steve DeChiaro happened to be nearby when the plane hit the Pentagon. They helped pull people from the burning rubble. And for their efforts, each man received a medal of valor, the Defense Department's highest civilian honor.
A new warning about young people and heart disease.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, stepping on the scale, getting your blood pressure checked, we'll tell you why the American Heart Associations says these tests and others are important for 20 year olds. That's coming up.
SNOW: And an embarrassing mix-up at a California beauty pageant. The ugly truth still to come.
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SNOW: Earlier we asked -- what is the number one killer in America? The answer, heart disease, which accounts for more than 40 percent of all deaths caused by chronic disease in America. Heart attacks and strokes generally aren't the kinds of things 20-somethings are much concerned about, but the American Heart Association says young adults and their doctors should be. CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is live at Piedmont University Hospital with some more details about these new guidelines. Certainly, not the kind of things 20-year-olds think a lot about, Elizabeth.
COHEN: Oh now, I think they're probably thinking more about go to bars and having fun than to get tested for heart disease. Now before I tell you why people are supposed to get -- start tested at age 20, I'm going to tell you what the tests are that they're supposed to have. And joining me here to help illustrate this point is our summer intern, Elise Olsen (ph), who's 21, right in that age range, and a nurse here at Piedmont Hospital, Tele Ogahoshi (ph), a registered nurse.
The first thing that folks are supposed to do starting at age 20 is very simple, get weighed and have your height measured. The reason for that is that then doctors can come up with what's called a body mass index or BMI. The higher the BMI, the higher your risk for heart disease and stroke.
Now, the second test that's supposed to be is to measure the patient's cholesterol levels and glucose. And here at Piedmont, they actually do one finger prick that test both of those things, which we think is pretty cool. They don't have to actually stick a needle in your arm. And we're just going to fake it on Elise (ph) because we don't want to put her in any pain. So here's the finger prick. This is to measure both glucose and blood cholesterol levels. The glucose is to see if the person is -- has diabetes or is at risk for diabetes.
The third test that folks are supposed to get is very simple. The nurse is just supposed to take the patient's pulse. That's an easy one.
The next one is waist circumference. The doctor or nurse is supposed to measure the patient's waist. With Elise (ph), we think her waist is probably about three centimeters or something along those lines. And let me explain why the waist circumference is measured because I don't think a lot of people understand that because the weight is not just important. If there's lot of fat around the waist, in other words, if the person carries their fat around the waist, that puts them at a higher risk for heart disease than if they carry it, say in their hips or their thighs. So they want to measure the waist.
And then, the final test is another very simple test that probably all of us have had done at some point or another and that is just blood pressure.
So these are very simple tests. And the reason why folks are supposed to start to getting these at age 20 is really twofold. First of all, some people actually start to get the signs of heart disease at age 20. But unless you get these tests, you'd never know it. Secondly, even if you don't start showing signs of disease at age 20, doctors want to get what's called a baseline, so they know what your heart health is at age 20, so that if you start getting sick when you're 40 or 50 or 60, they kind of know where you started from -- Kate.
SNOW: Elizabeth, do you have to get this every year then? Is this an annual physical kind of thing or just every once in while? How does that work?
COHEN: You know what, all of these tests except for two are to be done every other year. The blood work, the cholesterol and the glucose, that's every five years. So every two years for some of them, every five years for others.
Now, Kate, if you're like me, you sort of grew up with the notion of -- that you have to get an annual physical. And actually, doctors are in many ways getting away from that. They're saying, "You know, go annually if you have certain problems, but if you're completely healthy, you might not need to go the doctor every year. Every other year might be fine."
SNOW: Elizabeth Cohen in Atlanta. Some useful advice there for the 20-something set. Thanks a lot.
Something else saving young lives, seat belts. An advocacy group says, in a new report, that seat belts saved more than 4,300 teens involved in fatal accidents between 1995 and the year 2000. The study by the Air Bag and Seat Belt Safety Campaign also says, if 80 percent of teen drivers wore seat belts during those years, an additional 6,800 would have survived crashes that killed them.
A dog owner goes to jail for her canine's rampage.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rusty Dornin in San Francisco. Well, we'll find out why the judge slapped a maximum sentence on the suspect in the dog maul case.
SNOW: Plus, a beauty pageant gone wrong. How a crowning moment turned into an embarrassing disaster.
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SNOW: The owner of two dogs who mauled a San Francisco woman to death has been sentenced to four years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. CNN's Rusty Dornin joins us live with details -- Rusty.
DORNIN: Well, Kate, this judge has never made a secret of his displeasure over the utter lack of remorse by Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel in the mauling death of their neighbor, Diane Whipple, a year-and-a-half ago by their two giant dogs. And today, that judge did show his displeasure by slapping the maximum sentence on Knoller. He cited that several times that she had perjured herself in front of the grand jury in the courtroom when she claimed that the dogs were not dangerous, that the dogs had never lunged at anyone and they had never tried to fight anyone.
Also, her attorney tried to postpone the sentencing, arguing that this court did not have jurisdiction and that there were double jeopardy issues. Those arguments fell on deaf ears. Prosecutors say they are very happy that the sentencing was not postponed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HAMMER, PROSECUTOR: Although it's not everything we wanted, these are two people who said they would never be punished a day in their life for what they did. And they've now begun to receive some punishment for that and that's some degree of justice. As a matter of principal, we're going to appeal, as Mr. Hallaman (ph) said, the dismissal to murder count. And now, it's in the hand of judges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now, her domestic partner, Sharon Smith, shown here hugging friends and others prosecutors, was devastated when that second-degree murder conviction was overturned. But she is very happy that Marjorie Knoller has finally been sentenced. Knoller is also to pay her $6,800. And Smith said, "Sixty-eight million couldn't do it justice." She will never have her domestic partner again back, Diane Whipple, again -- Kate.
SNOW: Rusty Dornin in San Francisco.
Other stories in our "Justice File": in California, a trial is under way for a handyman accused of killing three tourists in Yosemite National Park. If convicted, Cary Stayner could be sentenced to death. Stayner is charged with kidnapping and killing a woman, her 15-year-old daughter and a 16-year-old friend. Stayner has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. He is already serving a life prison term for killing a park guide.
Another chance for a New Yorker serving a 20-year prison term in Peru for aiding leftist rebels. Latin American's top rights court will reopen the case of Lori Berenson. A decision would be legally binding on Peru, but if the court rules against Berenson, her only hope of freedom would be a presidential pardon.
A California judge is refusing to disqualify the Los Angeles D.A.'s office from prosecuting Winona Ryder on shoplifting charges. Ryder's lawyer says prosecutors are trying to humiliate the actress. Ryder allegedly shoplifted from a Saks Fifth Avenue store back in December. She pleaded not guilty and is free on bail.
"Here She Comes" turned into "There She Goes" at the Miss California Pageant. Amy Allen, of CNN affiliate KGPE, reports on a night of confusion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMY ALLEN, KGPE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started out all- American, but quickly hit a bump in the road when they announced the top ten. A wrong name was called.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The second semifinalist is Miss Greater East Bay, Rachel King.
(APPLAUSE) ALLEN: But then a few minutes later...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm very sorry, but a mistake has been made. I need to make one correction. Our second semifinalist is Miss Greater Bay Area, Nicole LaMarch (ph).
(APPLAUSE)
ALLEN: After that, contestants worked their way through talent and swimsuits, but half way the show, the current Miss California admitted the contestants were upset.
STEPHANIE BALDWIN, MISS CALIFORNIA 2001: We're trying to calm down and regroup after that. And I think that it did shake up the contestants a bit and it did shake me up as well because we don't like to see things like that happen and see someone get upset.
ALLEN (on-camera): Have you ever seen anything like that before?
BALDWIN: I have never seen anything like this happen before.
ALLEN (voice-over): After breaking the program, the head of the state pageant took the stage to apologize.
ROBERT ARNHYM, CEO, MISS CALIFORNIA PAGEANT: And I humbly apologize to the committees, to families and to all those who watched it happened.
ALLEN: Ultimately, Jennifer Glover, Miss (UNINTELLIGIBLE) County, walked away with the title. After the pageant ended, both girls involved in the mix-up said they were OK, but hoped a mistake like this would never tarnish the crown again.
In Fresno, Amy Allen, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: In a moment, our "Picture of The Day." Ever hear a U.S. congressman say he hates the government? And the results of our "Web Question of The Day." Is 20 years an appropriate sentence for John Walker Lindh?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SNOW: Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins at the top of the hour.
Lou, rough day on the Street.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Quite a volatile session, Kate. Thank you. A late session rally, however, brought stock prices back a bit. We'll be telling you about this remarkable rebound. We'll have complete market coverage and I'll be talking with one of Wall Street's leading strategists.
Some in Washington are calling for SEC chairman, Harvey Pitt, to resign despite an aggressive campaign against corporate corruption. I'll be talking with the chairman about what more has to be done.
And as the markets today plummeted, the president delivered a speech on strengthening the economy. We'll have a live report for you from the White House. All of that and a great deal more ahead on "MONEYLINE" ahead at the top of the hour. Please join us. Now back to Kate Snow --Kate.
SNOW: Thanks, Lou.
Looking at our "Picture of The Day" -- actually listening to our "Picture of The Day" now, Democratic Representative James Traficant of Ohio, convicted recently of bribery, fraud and tax evasion, today appeared before a House ethics panel on Capitol Hill, which will decide whether his conviction warrants expulsion from Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES TRAFICANT (D) OHIO: And I'll be damned if I'm going to be pushed around by the Justice Department. And I want to say to this committee, I love America, but hate the government. I love the elected members. I've met many of you and love you all. And I mean that. That's not patronizing to get your vote. I don't expect your vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: And now, we move on to hear how you're weighing in on the question we asked earlier in the show. We asked -- is 20 years an appropriate sentence for John Walker Lindh? Twenty-three percent of you said, "just about right" while 58 percent of you said, "too little" and 19 percent said, "too much." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. I'm Kate Snow in for Wolf Blitzer. Tomorrow on this program, a twist to the pledge of allegiance controversy. That man you just saw wants the words "under god" tossed out. Is he fighting on his daughter's behalf or against her wishes? Thanks very much for watching us. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" will begin right now.
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