Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Moussaoui To Receive Additional Indictment Today
Aired July 18, 2002 - 08:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to "The people vote. Zacarias Moussaoui." The only person charged in connection with the September 11 attacks will be in court again today facing a new indictment. Prosecutors hope this one will pave the way to a death sentence.
Moussaoui is acting as his own lawyer in the federal conspiracy case. As a result, the proceedings can be described as bizarre.
Here's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's filed nearly 100 motions, pages and pages accusing the U.S. government of cover-up and conspiracy, not only against him, but against the 19 hijackers, convinced people trying to help him are really trying to kill him.
LISE VAN SUSTEREN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: The question is whether or not his fears and his concerns about what we are plotting to do against him are consistent with his cultural ideology or whether this represents a true mental disorder, whether this is paranoia coming from a person who is losing touch with reality.
FEYERICK: In his writings, Zacarias Moussaoui accuses nearly everyone of something, accusations the FBI is withholding critical information and that his court appointed lawyers want him dead.
FRANK DUNHAM, MOUSSAOUI'S STANDBY LAWYER: I've seen a deterioration in the quality of his thinking, the quality of his writing and I believe there's a frustration that things that he probably thought that he would be able to accomplish are being denied by the court.
FEYERICK: Moussaoui increasingly attacks the judge, calling her mentally sick and a master of deception. As for his legal knowledge...
MARY CHEH, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: He really doesn't understand the system. He has a bare bones understanding, perhaps from watching television. But he really doesn't appreciate the legal consequences of his case. FEYERICK: Moussaoui's filed a number of motions asking a Muslim lawyer be allowed to give him advice and help him gather information. So far the lawyer has refused to follow court procedure.
(on camera): The judge ruled Moussaoui was mentally competent when she gave him the green light to act as his own lawyer. But she could order more psychiatric evaluations at any time. If any of those indicate that Moussaoui is not mentally competent to defend himself, it could also mean he's not competent to stand trial at all.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Well, you know the old saying about a lawyer who represents himself, that he has a fool for a client. But what about Zacarias Moussaoui? Is he crazy like a fox?
CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us now.
Good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
ZAHN: What have we learned about this guy by looking at some of the motions that he has filed?
TOOBIN: Well, he has really given an extraordinary self- portrait. Remember, in an earlier court appearance he went on a 50 minute monologue about how much he hates the United States, how much he hates Israel. I mean he has basically confessed to his motive in this crime.
The question is, you know, will the government be able to prove that he actually participated in the conspiracy? That's not clear. But he has acted like someone who is clearly guilty of being a, you know, being a terrorist.
ZAHN: But some of these motions when he's talking about staging Zacarias Moussaoui's suicide, I mean can you take all these things together and say this guy needs representation?
TOOBIN: Well...
ZAHN: Can you compel him to take on an attorney?
TOOBIN: Well, that's the interesting thing. The United States Supreme Court has said you have an absolute right to defend yourself. So he cannot be forced to have a lawyer. He has what's called a standby lawyer. We saw him in Deb Feyerick's piece, Frank Dunham. But he's basically said he thinks Dunham is a stooge, is a plant of the court. So he cannot be forced to accept a lawyer.
So he is going on these tirades in court and in these hundred printed motions and there's nothing really the judge can do to stop him. ZAHN: So how much of our time will he be wasting?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, it's interesting, he seems to -- this whole case reminds me a little of these situations where, in the street that are sometimes called suicide by cop where, you know, someone provokes the police into shooting him.
He obviously seems to want martyrdom like the 19 others who died on September 11. He seems to want, in a way, to be executed in order to prove his point.
It looks like the way it's going that the system is going to oblige him.
ZAHN: And you say in the end, though, it will be very difficult to prove that there was any established link between him and the September 11 hijackers.
TOOBIN: You know, that's the irony of this case is that, you know, if, in the hands of the right defense lawyer, this looks like a defensible case. Zacarias Moussaoui was arrested in August. He was in jail on September 11. He couldn't possibly have been involved on the day of the crime.
Also, remember, bin Laden himself has said that a lot of the hijackers didn't even know what was going to happen on September 11. So you could put together a defensible case. He's not doing it and it looks like, you know, this -- it will be a complex, difficult trial just because he'll be a difficult person to control. But I don't think the result is very much in doubt.
ZAHN: We want to go back out to Los Angeles and talk about that Inglewood beating. A Los Angeles County grand jury now has indicted Jeremy Morse.
TOOBIN: Right.
ZAHN: That is the Inglewood police officer who was seen on an amateur videotape beating an African-American teenager.
TOOBIN: Right.
ZAHN: Where do you think it goes from here?
TOOBIN: Well, he faces a maximum of three years in prison and, you know, he's now going to put forward his defense. His lawyer has said that the man there grabbed Officer Morse in the crotch and he was defending himself.
It looks like a difficult case to make, but that's clearly his defense. They're going to interview all the police officers. Apparently, this is not confirmed, one of the other officers may have been indicted for filing a false police report about what happened. So that case is going to move forward. It's, you know, more and more looking like the son of Rodney King.
ZAHN: I know you're a former prosecutor. Would you ever take on that case as a defense attorney?
TOOBIN: Sure.
ZAHN: You would?
TOOBIN: Yes. You know, cops do very well in front of juries.
ZAHN: They do.
TOOBIN: There are a lot tougher cases than that one.
ZAHN: But in the meantime, Jeffrey Toobin will continue to serve as our CNN legal analyst.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Yes. Indeed. I'm, the legal profession is going to have to live on without me.
ZAHN: Thanks again for your insights this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
