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American Morning
Interview With Dr. Lise Van Susteren
Aired July 19, 2002 - 07:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to get to the latest courtroom chaos surrounding Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in connection with the attacks of 9/11 so far.
Yesterday, Moussaoui tried to plead guilty to a charge of conspiracy, and said he pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. But the judge refused to accept that plea, at least for now anyway, giving Moussaoui about a week to think it over.
What could be going on in the mind of Moussaoui? Let's go to Washington right now. Forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Lise Van Susteren, and we know from the start, Doctor, you have not examined Moussaoui, but nonetheless, you know this stuff all too well -- good morning to you.
DR. LISE VAN SUSTEREN: Good morning.
HEMMER: You say he is manic.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, no...
HEMMER: What's happening now?
VAN SUSTEREN: No, no. I didn't actually say he was manic. I said that there are elements of his behavior, which in the mind of a forensic psychiatrist, would raise the flag that maybe he is beginning to fragment a little bit. And there are some signs that are similar to those that manics will show. But I didn't say he was manic. I wouldn't go that far.
HEMMER: Is it possible, though, that when he stood up in court yesterday that he was telling the truth for the first time, and maybe everything before this was just a charade of his character?
VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, sure. I mean, this guy is not exactly on our top 10 list of trustworthy people. Deception is something which is very familiar to him. So it could very well be.
I suspect that the stress of being in jail for the last year, of staring down his own potential hanging, you know, there is nothing like that to cause a person to rethink some of his convictions.
HEMMER: You did say, and I want to quote now: "Every man has his price for dying. That's where he is right now. This is a man who may be a member of al Qaeda, a group that has pledged their allegiance to following Osama bin Laden and essentially dying for their cause." Why, then, could it be that he is now shifting his allegiance here?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, look at this way. You have to understand a little bit the psychology of a person who is a fanatic. These people have an innate need to ally themselves with power. They are essentially a disenfranchised group of people internally. They are looking for something to animate them, to drive them, to give them a sense of purpose.
Well, clearly, in his current situation, al Qaeda and the powers that be in al Qaeda aren't doing the trick. So when that isn't working anymore, you rethink what it is that you're looking to cure your psychological ails, so to speak.
HEMMER: One court-appointed attorney says this is a case of deterioration for Zacarias Moussaoui. Is he essentially cracking, Doctor?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I mean, it certainly wouldn't be unthinkable that a person would crack under these circumstances. He has a country of roughly 270 million people that are pretty biased against him. I think, by nature certainly we use the legal system. But it wouldn't be surprising. There he is in his jail cell with a sea of paperwork, CD-ROMs that he can't possibly go through to try to defend himself. You know, it would break any one of us.
HEMMER: He has been analyzed before mentally. Would that serve a good purpose right now in doing another evaluation?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, sure. The situation is different. And in the mind of any person who is psychologically vulnerable, as I think that he is, that can change over time. The hearing has started since then. Things have really gotten revved up. I don't know whether this guy is sleeping. Sleep deprivation could be a factor. Again, I don't know that, but I suspect that under the type of scrutiny and pressure that he has been having, it would be easily conceivable that he was beginning to unravel.
HEMMER: Thank you, Doctor -- Dr. Lise Van Susteren. Next week should be interesting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when that court comes back in session. Thank you much for your thoughts this morning.
VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you.
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