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CNN Live Today

Interview with Ra'anan Gissin

Aired July 23, 2002 - 11:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to continue our discussion this morning of the -- Israel's attack against the Hamas leader last night which resulted in that leader's death and the death of a number of civilians, including a number of children.

Joining us now with the Israeli side of the events last night is Ra'anan Gissin, who is a spokesman for the Israeli government. He joins us now from Jerusalem -- sir, thank you very much for your time this morning.

RA'ANAN GISSIN, SPOKESMAN, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT: Good morning. Good morning.

HARRIS: I must first of all get your reaction to the reaction that we are getting from the White House this morning in the wake of the event. President Bush, through his spokesman Ari Fleischer says that the president believes this heavy-handed action does not contribute to peace, and that Israel has to be mindful of the consequences of its actions to preserve the path to peace. Your reaction?

GISSIN: Well, you know, this is not an Atari game. This is a war, and we are facing that war for the past 22 months. It's a war fraught with dilemmas every day. How do we prevent suicide bombings? How do we prevent a man like Salah Shehade from instituting or executing a major suicide bombing which is going to leave tens of people dead, and hundreds wounded and at the same time, avoid, as much as possible, hurting civilian population, because the war is taking place there, within places were the civilian population is concentrated.

When we went after this man, Salah Shehade, it was the last resort. After we warned the Palestinian Authority, we told them, you have got to stop this man. He's a ticking bomb. For the past two years, he has caused the death and injury of hundreds of Israelis. And no action was taken. Therefore, when we were -- yes.

HARRIS: Sir, you call this an attack of last resort. However, as I understand it, as I read reports this morning, Saeb Erakat, the chief negotiator for the Palestinians said just this weekend the talks between him and the Shimon Peres were the most serious that he has had in months. And then right after that, we see this event last night which was guaranteed to produce casualties of not just the man you were after, but as well as civilians. You knew civilians were in that building.

GISSIN: No, we did not know that around him there were civilians. That's the first thing. The first fact. We didn't have perfect intelligence, but we knew one thing. If we didn't stop Salah Shehade that night, we would have had a major, mega suicide bombing on our hands. And, you know, we have suffered those for the past 22 months. It has cost the life of 576 Israelis, over 4,000 wounded. That's the equivalent of 36,000 casualties, you know, in U.S. figures. We have a right to defend ourselves...

HARRIS: But Mr. Gissin, this act...

GISSIN: ... and particularly since the Palestinian Authority -- yes, but they are only talking peace. They are not taking any action to prevent these acts.

HARRIS: But Mr. Gissin, the same could be said about Ariel Sharon and the Israeli government at this particular point, that you are only talking about peace. When you commit an act like this, which guarantees that there will be retaliatory suicide bombings coming from the other side.

GISSIN: But -- but there has been always, continuously, Salah Shehade and the Hamas have not stopped for one day from launching attacks against Israeli civilians, from firing Qassam rockets, or from putting roadside explosives. They haven't stopped, so there is no difference here. They say that they will avenge -- that they will revenge it, but they've been carrying on this war regardless of the talk about peace.

So we want to see action, not talks.

HARRIS: Let me ask...

GISSIN: We want to see Palestinian security forces that stop terrorist activity.

HARRIS: But sir, the one reason...

GISSIN: And they haven't done that.

HARRIS: ... why this is drawing so much -- so much of a negative response is because of the numbers of civilians, of innocent civilians, who were killed in this particular attack. How is it that your intelligence told you that this target was happening, this man you were after from Hamas was actually in this spot, but you had no information about the tens of other civilians who happened to be there?

GISSIN: OK, we regret that very much. Every civilian life -- innocent civilian that is lost, we regret that, because we don't want to kill civilians. We don't want this war in the first place. It was imposed on us. But we have always to make consideration about what would happen to our civilians, how about our innocent men, women, and children? Pregnant woman? Babies that were killed in Emanuel? And innocent civilians when the crime against humanity that was conducted in the streets of Tel Aviv? We've been facing this reality for over 22 months. Now, the Palestinian people are so concerned, they know what to do to stop this action.

HARRIS: Well, can you explain to us...

GISSIN: They could have taken -- look, Gaza -- Gaza is not occupied. Gaza is under the full control of the Palestinian Authority. We're not there. And no action was taken, despite the fact that we issued warning to the Palestinian Authority.

HARRIS: Even if it is under their control, you were still able to carry out strikes as you did. Can you explain to those of us who are standing by both here in the U.S. and in Europe who are watching this from the sidelines, how what happened last night gives any one on the Palestinian side any incentive to go back to the negotiating tables and to go away and back away from a policy of suicide bombings?

GISSIN: But all these -- all these talks about reforms, all these talks about -- with the Palestinians have nothing to do with what happens on the ground. How come -- you know, the United States went to Afghanistan and conducted a war there against terrorism, and innocent civilians were killed. Would you say that the United States government deliberately killed these civilians? There is a big difference.

There's no moral equivalency between suicide bombers and terrorists like Salah Shehade who target men, women, and children. They are putting them as targets, and acts of self-defense which regrettably sometimes cause the loss of life of innocent civilians. But there is hope, there is a way out...

HARRIS: But sir, this target that you went after -- I am sorry, sir, the target you went after last night was a residence, and the bombing happened at night when residents would normally be sleeping. So it was in a residential area in a residential structure. How could you not expect there would be some civilian casualties?

GISSIN: No, because according to our information, he was not surrounded by civilians, like in other times, when he used them as human shields. Not at this time. In the war of this sort, you don't always have accurate intelligence, and you know, the United States forces in Afghanistan can attest to that, that you don't always have the accurate intelligence. But that's a far cry from deliberate killing or from calling it a massacre. We have no intention of killing these people. There is a way out of it.

If the Palestinian Authority will take control, then there will be no need for us to conduct those actions, and we can start on the arduous road back to negotiations and a negotiated settlement.

HARRIS: Finally, sir, was it Ariel Sharon himself who gave the order last night?

GISSIN: Gave the what?

HARRIS: Gave the order to execute that actual strike last night? GISSIN: Well -- well, first of all, you know, every such action has to go through the approval of the cabinet. It goes, first of all, to the defense minister, and of course, the final decision is made with the prime minister. The prime minister and the defense minister, what we call the security cabinet, makes those decisions.

And I want to tell you, this decision would not have been taken had we -- weren't we absolutely sure that hadn't we stopped this ticking bomb, tomorrow -- today, meaning, we would have had a major suicide bombing on our hand. And the people of Israel, and every citizen here has the right here to live, to live in peace and security, and we are exercising our right of self-defense.

If the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian people want to move on the road to peace, they have to assume responsibility for actions of people like Salah Shehade, and then there will be no need for F-16 strikes.

HARRIS: Sir, it will be interesting to see whether or not that road to peace gets any smoother than it is at this particular point.

Ra'anan Gissin, thank you very much, we appreciate your joining us to give us your viewpoint this morning.

GISSIN: Thank you.

HARRIS: Ra'anan Gissin, spokesman for the Israeli government.

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