Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Look at Moussaoui, Westerfield Trials

Aired July 25, 2002 - 10:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Also on the docket this morning, a federal hearing for Zacarias Moussaoui. He is due to officially enter a plea to conspiracy charges in the September 11 attacks today.

Now, it was week ago today that he stunned the courtroom by saying that he wanted to plead guilty, that he had, in fact, been an al Qaeda member with knowledge of the terrorist plot. The judge refused to accept his plea, and then ordered him to mull it over before today's return.

Let's get some legal perspective on all of this, and for that, we turn to our legal analyst, Jeffery Toobin, who checks in from New York.

Good to see you -- Jeff. How are you?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Leon.

HARRIS: Hey, listen, all right, let's begin with the Moussaoui case. What you do you think is going to happen today in the courtroom?

TOOBIN: Boy, that's a more difficult question than usual. Usually, you know what's on the agenda.

The understanding is that Moussaoui, having been denied the right to plead guilty last week, will, at this point having thought it over, go ahead and plead guilty. Although his stand by counsel, that is the lawyers he fired but who are still involved in the case in an advisory role, have filed a motion before the judge and saying -- say, don't let him do this, he is not mentally fit to stand trial, we haven't resolved all of the issues surrounding whether the death penalty is legally applied in this case, don't go forward.

The judge seemed inclined last week to go forward this week, but you know, you never know what this guy is going to say.

HARRIS: Yes, and it sounds as though if you look at it, this is a camp that's speaking with two voices, two totally, distinctive different voices here. So what is the judge likely to do in this case? Does the judge go by the word of the client himself? Because in this case, he is speaking for himself, and if he comes back out and says he is guilty, does the judge then have to accept what he says? TOOBIN: If he is saying, and the judge has repeatedly found that he is fit mentally to proceed, then at some point the judge has to accept the plea. But there is an important thing to remember here. When a judge -- excuse me -- when a judge accepts a guilty plea, she has to ask him, what did you do? Tell me in your own words, what did you do that is illegal that you are pleading guilty to? And at that point, Moussaoui has to describe his own conduct in a way that matches the indictment.

If Moussaoui says, well, I want to plead guilty, but I didn't know anything about September 11, she may not accept the plea. So he still has to what's called allocute. He has to say what he did, and it has to match what's in the indictment, or she'll not accept the plea and again order the trial to go forward.

HARRIS: I was going to say, so then where does that leave everything? If he comes out here and he tells a story that's maybe even worse than the one that's in the indictment, she doesn't have to accept that and they start from scratch, or what?

TOOBIN: Well, I -- if she doesn't accept the guilty plea, it's as if he never tried to plead guilty, and they just go ahead with jury selection in September. Usually, when someone starts to plead guilty, ultimately they wind up pleading guilty. But I mean, this is, to put it mildly, an unusual situation, and we don't know exactly what he says he did. And the judge is going to be fairly meticulous.

I think a lot of people don't realize, when you plead guilty in federal court, it's not just, I plead guilty, see you later. It's at least a half-an-hour worth of questions, explanation of what the consequences are. I am sure this will take even longer than that.

So it's a complicated process, and you know, this guy has not talked to prosecutors. He has not talked to defense lawyers. We don't know really what's in his head.

HARRIS: Yes. All right, let's go back to the other case we talked about from San Diego, that Westerfield case.

TOOBIN: Right.

HARRIS: Let me ask about that quickly if we can this morning. You know, the son gets up, Westerfield's son gets up and testifies that he did see some pornography in disks and on the computer. Does this -- his testimony, does it in any way help out his father? It sounds to me as though he may have actually done it some harm.

TOOBIN: He did do his father some harm. And after all, he was a prosecution witness.

He was actually -- the issue that we are talking about is a fairly narrow one in the case. It's the issue of motive. The police, when they searched David Westerfield's home, found some child pornography on some disks, some pictures of clearly underage girls involved in sexual situations. Westerfield's lawyers have suggested that maybe it was the son who downloaded the pornography. The son yesterday said, no, I had nothing to do with child pornography. He put it -- he said, any child porn there came from someone else, and it obviously had to come from his father. So on the very important question of motive, he was a good witness for the prosecution.

HARRIS: Jeffrey Toobin, well, you were a good witness for us this morning -- appreciate it, buddy. Have a good one -- Jeffrey Toobin in New York.

TOOBIN: Thank you, counselor.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.