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CNN Live Today

When Politicians Go to Prison

Aired July 31, 2002 - 10:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: While Trafficant's case is certainly one of the most well publicized, he's not the only politician to ever get sent to jail. Judge James Zagel has written a new crime thriller called "Money to Burn." He's also helped to investigate corruption cases. Judge James Zagel joins us now from New York. He's got some insights into what happens when politicians to go to jail.

Good morning, sir. How are you?

JUDGE JAMES ZAGEL, U.S. DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: Good morning.

HARRIS: How closely did you follow the Trafficant case once it got to court?

ZAGEL: I saw basically the stuff that was on front page of newspaper.

HARRIS: If you were the judge in this case, would you have done what this judge did?

ZAGEL: I think I would have come pretty close. I have no dispute over what that judge did.

HARRIS: As I understand it, this judge actually gave Traficant more time than the prosecution was asking for. From what I read this morning, prosecutors were asking for 7 1/4 years, and he -- she hit him with eight years? What does that tell you? A lot of people looking on the outside in say, politicians, they always get some sort of break somehow, some way. You don't think he got one in this case.

ZAGEL: I don't think politicians do get a break. If you -- to give you an example, if you were to set out a little picnic tray and a snake suddenly come up and wound its way through your deviled eggs, you get a little feeling of revulsion. You multiply that by about ten, and you have the feeling most judges have when some public official has sold his office.

HARRIS: In this case, this particular defendant was quite defiant and, in fact, downright abusive in court. In fact, he was yelling at this judge, Judge wells, we should mention her name. He was yelling at her. In fact, at one point, I think I saw this morning "The Cleveland Plain Dealer," he says to her, in street terms, "You screwed me." When you hear about a guy who has been famous for screaming things even worse than that -- weeks ago, he was talking about stabbing people in the crotch in a Senate hearing -- I'm sorry a House hearing. You hear these things come out of guy's mouth, who is a elected official, don't you worry about his mental health more than you worry about whether or not what did was actually a crime.

ZAGEL: What it says to the judge who hears something like this, is I'm not sorry. And If I get a chance, I'll do it again. That's the way most judges would interpret that kind of conduct.

HARRIS: Would you interpret any sign of remorse as something that was actually worthy of giving the guy of break of some kind. For instance, in the case of Congressman Dan Rostenkowski from Illinois. Many people were looking on what happened with him that way.

ZAGEL: He pled guilty. He didn't defy the court. He apologized for his offenses, and still, he got 17 months in prison, which is not a short period of time.

HARRIS: But did he actually go to a prison? As I understood it, he spent most of his time in a halfway house, correct?

ZAGEL: He went to prison. He did spend some time in a halfway house. But even Congressman Traficant will spend some time in a halfway house, because that's what the Bureau of Prisons do. And the decision as to where to send somebody and whether they go to a halfway house is not the judge's to make.

HARRIS: All right. Now as I understand it, you've written a thriller about an elected official, who committed some sort of a crime, is that it?

ZAGEL: It's actually -- I wrote a story about federal judge like me about who robs the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago, and interestingly enough he's not a corrupt judge. He's a perfectly honest judge who commits a crime in his off hours, and I was led to it, because I see so many people before me who have lead exemplary lives, except for one terrible crime they have committed. And I'm curious why they would do that.

HARRIS: Do you see parallel between that character and Jim Trafficant?

ZAGEL: No, I really don't, because this character in my never abuses his office. He could have. If I were to have a case, you were have a case in front of me, and I said, give me the security to Wolf Blitzer's house because I want to steal the Blitzer diamond, the famous Blitzer diamond and you'll win your case, I'd would be abusing my office if I stole the diamond. But Paulie Divine (ph), my character, is always an honest and fair judge. He's also a thief.

HARRIS: If you pull that off, you would be a heck of a guy. Wolf hasn't even had us over, at least not yet.

Judge James Zagel, thanks very much. Good luck with the book. Thanks for your time.

ZAGEL: Thank you.

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