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Hearings Examine Threat Saddam Poses; View From Streets of Iraq

Aired July 31, 2002 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Those hearings have resumed just a short while ago after a morning session resuming for the afternoon, testimony undergoing right now. The chairman John -- Joe Biden, excuse me, asking questions of witnesses, including the former U.N. weapon's inspector Richard Butler, who earlier insisted the Iraqis might be very close indeed to developing what he called a crude nuclear device. That is unfolding even as you speak.

Questioners are also asking about what it would take for the U.S. to get the job done. Anthony Cortisman, a researcher at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, saying it would by no means be a cakewalk; it would be difficult. Anthony Cortisman, to the right of your screen, you just saw him, an Iraqi nuclear weapon's developer testifying also, someone who had defected to the West a few years ago.

Let's bring in Pat Lang, a former Pentagon intelligence official who spent many years studying the situation in Iraq. The most alarming news so far was what Richard Butler had to say about the Iraqis potentially being very close right now to developing a crude nuclear device. If they were to do so, that would change the entire equation.

PATRICK LANG, FMR. PENTAGON OFFICIAL: Actually, all three witnesses made that case strongly, Butler foremost among them. It would change it dramatically. If they detonated a device out in the desert somewhere, the clock is running on what you can do about this.

And the problem is, if we knew where the target sets were to interfere with this process, we could be doing something about it at this time.

BLITZER: When you say target sets, what does that mean?

LANG: Well, all the different facilities and things, where these things are being manufactured and developed. We obviously don't know where they are, or we'd be doing something about it. We're not shy about bombing Iraq. And so we're not doing that. If you detonate a device, then you just can't go out and bomb in reaction to this, because you don't know where to go bomb.

BLITZER: And it's been four year since weapon's inspector on the scene. Standby for one moment. I want to bring in our Rym Brahimi. She's in Baghdad. She's joining us now live. You've been there now for several weeks.

Rym, first of all, as the U.S. prepares for possible military action against President Saddam Hussein's regime, what's the mood on the streets of Baghdad?

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the mood here is that pretty much one of resignation, I'd say. There's only one thing they're not talking too seriously so far, and that's those opposition meetings in Washington and in London. A lot of people here will tell you, for instance, that these people don't have much credibility, and certainly they would have no credibility at all if they were to be parachuted into Iraq by the United States.

What they are concerned about is the fact that any regime change will be accompanied by a war, and I think that's their main concern, Wolf. A lot of people will publicly put an brave face, say we're not afraid, what else can the Americans do to us they haven't done before? But in private, they are really worried. I haven't seen anyone stocking up on food yet. There's a sense that nothing is in their hands. Whatever happens, they can't do anything about it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rym, what about resuming those weapon inspection teams. It's been almost four years. Why won't the Iraqi government allow the U.N. to send those inspectors back in? That would diffuse the tension, at least in the short term.

BRAHIMI: Well, there are many reasons people talk about that are here to explain this. What officials will say -- well, they cite a number of reasons. One, they say weapons inspector are spies, they spied last time. And Ralph Bakers (ph), the former UNSCOM chief, comments yesterday were music to their ears. They say this is evidence of what UNSCOM was trying to do, and they think that any weapon's inspection team would just basically be here to draw up a list of targets that the U.S. could use in a military attack.

What slightly changed recently was the language. Iraqis are longer saying -- they are no longer rejecting the principal of allowing weapons inspectors in. What they do want to come with that are guarantees, guarantees that they won't be attacked, guarantees that they will get something, that something will give.

For instance, their main thing that they would like to see happen is the missing of the sanctions, and they're not seeing any of that is there explanation. So they're saying, well, why should we go ahead and let the weapons inspector if nothing of that is going to happens, and we're not getting guarantees that it might happen somewhere down the line.

They're also very concerned that they will end up having the inspectors back and having U.S. bombing anyway. So a lot of people here are saying what's the point -- Wolf.

BLITZER: At the same time, the Iraqi government is engaged in a very sophisticated effort to generate support for its stance among other Arab governments, the Europeans, the Russians, the Chinese.

Talk a little bit, Rym, about that strategy, in trying to counter the U.S. diplomatic and military potential offensive.

That's right, Wolf, well in past weeks, for instance. We've seen the Iraqi foreign minister in Brussels. He's been holding talks with European Union officials. Now the Europeans are telling them they should be a little bit more flexible. They are advising them to give some indication to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan that they will at one point allow the inspectors back in. That hasn't happened so far.

A Russian official was here earlier this week, Mr. Saltanov, the deputy foreign minister. Now he came in, again, with a similar message, trying to push the Iraqis to maybe give some signal they will be a little more flexible with regards to weapon's inspection. What the Iraqis have been doing is working a lot on their Arab neighbors and on their other neighbors as well. They've been building economic ties, probably in the hope that whoever is a serious economic partner of Iraq would hate to see this country bombed. And so they've been building a lot of economic ties with Jordan, Syria, Turkey. They've been doing trade with Iraq, and even with a lot of Arab Gulf states.

Now, we don't know what's going to happen with that. But meanwhile, they've also listening to Arab public opinion for support. There's been sort of a media offensive with Iraqi officials going to Arab media, and explaining their position, explaining why they not letting the inspectors in for now, explaining why they need those guarantees, and what the situation is, from their point of view -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rym Brahimi, she's our reporter on the scene in Baghdad. Thanks for joining us.

Once again, Patrick Lang, a former Pentagon official.

As you take a look at the mood on the Arab streets, one of the initiatives that President Saddam Hussein has done is to try to strengthen his determination supposedly for the Palestinian cause to win support for his stance against the United States.

LANG: There's widespread feeling in the Arab world amongst the masses, I guess you call them, that, in fact, that Iraq stands for a sort of manly Arab resistance to neocolonialism and external foreign pressure and all that sort of stuff, and Saddam Hussein has played that card very skillfully in a number of ways, including his support to the Palestinian union uprising in which he has been absolutely boldface about supporting the suicide bombers.

BLITZER: If the U.S. were to launch some sort of strike against Iraq, once again, would the Iraqis, do you believe, launch scud missiles, if they have any, against the Israelis, to try to make that position clear?

LANG: They probably only a have small number left, and they haven't used them operationally or even trained with them for 10 years. But if there's any way they could scrape together a few of them and put high explosive warheads on them, probably. I think it would have problems with the other kinds of warheads.

BLITZER: You mean weapons of mass destruction, like biological or chemical.

LANG: I think they would have a difficulty with that. As was said in the testimony as well, if they could shoot high explosive warheads into Tel Aviv and Hafiv (ph), I think they quite possible would do that.

BLITZER: All right, Pat Lang, thanks once again.

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