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CNN Talkback Live

Is Attacking Saddam Wise?; Should Jesse Jackson Talk to Hamas in Wake of Suicide Attacks?; Parents Attack Each Other at Little League Games

Aired July 31, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(APPLAUSE)
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. Welcome to all of you as well.

Listen, there's a lot of talk these days about possible U.S. military action to target Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. Between hearings on Capitol Hill today and a steady stream of leaks, you might wonder what's the point of letting the entire universe in on U.S. plans in Iraq. We'll talk about it.

And then stay tuned as we debate Jesse Jackson's peace mission in light of this week's Hamas attacks in jerusalem. And we talk about parents with sports rage. Another incident this week left a dad without an earlobe.

Right now, let's meet our guests. Deroy Murdock, a syndicated columnist for Scripps Howard News Service and a senior fellow at the Atlas Economic Research Foundation. Hi, Deroy.

DEROY MURDOCK, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: How are you, Arthel?

NEVILLE: I'm good. Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch. Hello, Tom.

TOM FITTON, JUDICIAL WATCH: Good afternoon.

NEVILLE: Good afternoon. Juline Jordan, a talk show host for ie America Radio Network and co-host of the Peter Werbe show in Detroit. Hello.

JULINE JORDAN, AMERICAN RADIO NETWORK: Hello, thanks for having me.

NEVILLE: I'm glad to see you. And Julia Reed, senior editor for "Vogue" magazine. Hi, Julia.

JULIA REED, SENIOR EDITOR, "VOGUE": Hi, how are you?

NEVILLE: I'm good. OK, listen, we're going to start first with Iraq.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is spending two days gathering information from experts on Iraq. And lawmakers want to know how big a threat Saddam Hussein poses, and what problems the U.S. might face in the region if it decides to go it alone and take down the Iraqi president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS CHMN: In my judgment, President Bush is right to be concerned about Saddam Hussein's relentless pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, and the possibility he may use them or share them with terrorists.

RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. UNSCOM CHAIRMAN: If the decision has to be taken to remove Saddam, then I just say this: do it for the right reasons. As you have pointed out, Mr. Chairman, have this debate and make clear to the world what this is about. It is about weapons of mass destruction, but please do not leave out Saddam's hideous record in terms of human rights violations. He should be on trial in the Hague alongside Milosevic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OK, Tom, you're up first on this topic. Is it a good idea to attack Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

FITTON: Well, of course it's a good idea to attack Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Not only are they are a threat to us through this weapons of mass destruction, but we've tied them -- there's lots of evidence tying them to September 11. But this sort of ludicrous way we're going about discussing the invasion plans -- I would like to go over to the Pentagon and remind them that loose lips sink ships.

They're talking about the timing, they're talking about how many troops we're going to use, what countries we're going to launch from, and then they're talking about secret plans about trying to go into Baghdad first, and pointing out that we did it secretly in North Korea during the Korean conflict.

Well, the whole purpose, the whole success on those previous missions was the secrecy...

NEVILLE: So, Tom, why do you think...

FITTON: ...and we're debating -- we're talking about what we're going to do.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Hang on, Tom. We're going to have a conversation here.

What I wanted to ask you following up what you just said, I want to know why do you think this information is being leaked or put out there?

FITTON: I don't know. I think there are some people who want the plans to come out in a way to bolster their own agenda, whether, you know, some people don't want to use 250,000 troops, some people want to use less troops, so they leak plans if they oppose the plans that they're leaking, or sometimes they leak plans if they think the plans that they are leaking are good.

I don't know. Maybe the White House is trying to confuse Saddam Hussein by leaking all this information and just keeping him on edge. I think it's doing little but to confuse the American people as to what's going on and what the timing is. It's not going to be a secret, but when we're about ready to attack, we'll be attacking, but to be going into details like this is not helpful.

NEVILLE: And Deroy, is this -- Deroy, is this about politics or is it about trying to confuse Saddam Hussein? I mean, I also found it interesting when I read that the president said that he wouldn't do anything before the November election. So basically that sends a message to Saddam that, OK, great, I got months to do whatever it is I am going to do to get ready to defend myself.

MURDOCK: Oh, you're absolutely right. I don't think we ought to be indicating when we we're going attack, if we will, until we actually have the forces on the ground and they see that the attack is underway.

There is, right on the front page of the "USA Today" it says that there will not be an October surprise, and the earliest there would be an invasion would be I guess around Thanksgiving or something like that.

And you are absolutely right, the people who are putting together these weapons of mass murder, as I call them, whether they are nuclear, biological or chemical, now they know that they've bascially got the whole summer and most of the fall to keep working on this, and I am sure they are going to be working around the clock on it.

And it's much better to have them on edge, thinking that the 101st Airborne could be coming in maybe tomorrow morning. And instead we just told them to kick back, relax, and continue the research.

NEVILLE: Julia, let's bring you in on this conversation. I want to know, what do you think is behind all this -- these leaks -- is it all about politics or is there something else?

JORDAN: Well, I think that -- I'm glad that they're talking about it in the public eye because people need to know that you cannot just go off and unilaterally attack a country. It is against international law on many counts...

FITTON: Oh, come on.

JORDAN: It is absolutely against international law.

FITTON: It's self-defense.

Go ahead.

FORDAN: These Senate hearings need to be from top to bottom very critical about what they are going to do about Saddam Hussein and Iraq. They -- basically I talked to a weapons inspector in Iraq, a former one this morning, and he told me that what's going on in the Senate -- he's there on the Hill monitoring that today -- and he said basically, quote, unquote, "This is a preordained rubber stamp for war."

They're not trying to really weigh the issues here. They want to go in for war. What has Saddam Hussein done to us lately? Tell me that. Yes, he is not letting us in, but what has he done to us lately?

LITTON: Oh, come on.

REED: We have no idea what he's done to us lately because every single time we've ever sent an inspector in there it's been a joke. I mean, basically, what everybody on both sides of the hearings, which are not rubber stamp hearings, are saying that you know, you've got a serious problem, and now we have to weigh how to deal with it.

I mean, nobody is -- I don't think anybody thinks it's a good idea to let Saddam Hussein sit over there and keep on making bombs which one guy said could be detonated in the desert -- a nuclear device could be detonated in the desert as early as six months from now.

But I think that the Bush Administration is probably not too disappointed that some of these leaks have gotten out, even they might not be smart about it, as Tom said, because I think that the American people need to be warned that look, this is not going to to be Kuwait. This is not even going to be Afghanistan. This is not going to be our nice little air war. This is going to be a horror show. I mean, it can -- you know, a ground war in Iraq is going to be really tough, and that's going to be aired out this week.

It'll be interesting to see what the polls say after these hearings are over.

MURDOCK: Yes, President Bush's policies...

NEVILLE: Hang on for me. Hang one second. Hang on for me, Deroy.

Deroy, hang on for me. Excuse me, I've got Michael from England here who would like to say something.

MICHAEL: Yes, I am just curious to know how you can actually defend -- although he hasn't done anything recently, Saddam Hussein -- you know, he kills his own people with mustard gas, and when they're not allowing U.N. inspectors to come and inspect their nuclear weapons, how you can defend him? Thank you.

FITTON: Well, obviously he is indefensible, and I don't know what international law is being referenced here, but in order for Saddam Hussein to get the U.S. to stop attacking him back at the end of the Persian Gulf War, he agreed to do certain things, and if doesn't -- once he stopped doing those things, we were within our rights under international law, under the basis in which we stopped the war, to continue the war any time we want.

NEVILLE: He won't allow weapons inspectors in there, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

FITTON: Inspectors, the whether or not he is positioning military assets and such. We can do it right now. We'd be within our rights, and we don't have to consult anyone to do it, nor should we have to.

REED: And I don't think anybody should keep on talking about inspections, because as Rumsfeld said yesterday, look, you can make most of this stuff on the back of a wagon and move it around the country. I mean, nobody, I don't think anymore, is under the illusion that oh, inspectors are going to be in there! Let's -- they're going to take us around and show us everything!

NEVILLE: Exactly.

REED: I mean, that's just insane.

MURDOCK: I would also -- Justine asked the question what has he done to us lately...

NEVILLE: Hang on for me, panel.

MURDICK: I think we have to follow what President Bush has recommended, which is a policy of preemptive action. In other words, not waiting until the atomic device goes off or there is a chemical weapons explosion in Chicago or San Francisco or San Diego or somewhere else, and they say, OK, now we'll go react.

I think it's very important for those weapons to be neutralized now before they're deployed anywehre, whether it's the Middle East, the United States, Europe or anywhere else.

NEVILLE: OK, let me get Eduardo (ph), who is calling in from California. Go ahead, Eduardo. What do you have to say?

CALLER: First of all, I'm a Vietnam veteran, and if you think chemical weapons are worse than the napalm and white phosphorous we used in Vietnam or the clusterbombs we -- that Israel uses -- you know, used in Lebanon, that we used in Afghanistan, you have to check that out.

But what I called to say is we are talking about attacking another country without even attempting minimally to negotiate our differences, which very well could be resolved, and we're going into a situation that according to go the papers signed by Rumsfeld earlier this year meets the requisites for the first use of nuclear weapons.

NEVILLE: Eduardo, are you suggesting we negotiate with Saddam Hussein?

OK, apparently call was lost.

Ryan (ph) from London, what do you say?

RYAN: I wanted to say, what would happen if the U.S. went into Iraq and did (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the situation, and they did take out Saddam Hussein and got next leader. He would be either better or worse, but they may not make the situation better. What could they do to make that better?

NEVILLE: Well, apparently, and panel, whoever wants to jump in -- thank you, first of all -- the way I read it that the U.S. would definitely want to deploy troops over there, peacekeeping troops in order to make that transition if there is another government to make sure that that is done properly.

JORDAN: Sure, but that's after we go in and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. Do you realize...

FITTON: Where are you getting that number from?

JORDAN: ..that in the last 12 years, 1 million Iraqis have died because of the conditions over there because of sanctions.

(CROSSTALK)

I am not supporting Saddam Hussein. I think he is a horrible, horrible guy, I really do, but also, if none of this gets you, the people who are listening in the audience, you the taxpayer are going to be paying for this war. And guess what, coming right out of your pocket. Can you afford that?

I know I can't.

(CROSSTALK)

MURDOCK: But better that then a chemical or a nuclear explosion, I say.

NEVILLE: You know he what guys, when I'm speaking, please wait for me, OK. Thank you very much.

OK, listen, I want to hear from you at home. I want to get you involved in the conversation definitely, because it's about you, the people. So give me a call: 1-800-310-4CNN or you can e-mail TALKBACK@CNN.com.

We'll be back in a moment. Thanks so much.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Still ahead on TALKBACK LIVE, Hamas targets students at a Hebrew university in a deadly lunchtime bombing in the school's crowded cafeteria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is another despicable act of Palestinian violence so horrendous that it almost defies words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they are going attack, if they are going to kill, if they are going to continue their occupation, they have to face such operation.

NEVILLE: Two bombings in two days. Is Jesse Jackson's peace mission having any impact?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.

For the second day in a row, Hamas has taken responsibility for a bombing in Jerusalem. Today's explosion targeted the Frank Sinatra International Student Center cafeteria at Hebrew University. At least seven people were killed, and at least 80 were injured.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, on a peace mission to the region, met again today with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Jackson canceled his meeting with the founder of Hamas.

He said he wants to show proper respect for the victims, and called the bombings "horribly merciless."

Deroy, I want to go to you first on this topic.

Did Jackson make the right decision to cancel the meeting with the founder of Hamas?

MURDOCK: Well, I think it's appropriate for him to have canceled that meeting, but I'm not even sure why he considered doing it in the first place. This is a group that has gone on for years murdering, in cold blood, Israeli civilians -- not military targets, but actual civilians, and today's bombing, college kids.

Why would he even consider putting on his agenda a meeting with these people?

And secondly, I'm not sure who he represents. He doesn't represent the United States government. He's not even a member of the same party of the man in the White House.

So he's out freelancing on his own, attracting international attention and the cameras, as he always does. I guess that's what we'd expect from Jesse Jackson.

NEVILLE: And Deroy, so do you think that perhaps because his trip is not sanctioned by the White House, that -- is he undermining the White House or the administration in any way?

MURDOCK: I think he is. I mean, had he, in fact, met with the Hamas leaders, he simply would increase their prestige, increase their credibility, and they can say, well, we're not so bad, Jesse Jackson flew over from the United States and met with us.

I don't think that's in any way helpful to what the administration is doing or anything that the Israeli government is trying to do in the efforts of pursuing peace.

NEVILLE: OK, hang on for me panel; I want to hear from you as well.

But I've got Linda (ph) here who wants to say something.

LINDA: Yes, I don't know if I truly believe that Reverend Jackson is over there for truly helping. I am under the opinion that, perhaps, he's over there just trying to keep himself relevant.

MURDOCK: That's right.

NEVILLE: Julia, how do you see it -- wait, who's -- Julia, go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

REED: .. in agreement. I mean, I think she's right.

I mean, I think that Jesse should be placed under house arrest, because I don't think he's doing anybody any good, except he -- I mean, he's clearly doing this for his own gratification.

But, you know, back to what Deroy said, I'm not sure he can undermine the president's policy, because I am very confused about what that is. I mean, I don't think we have a policy to undermine right now, and the void is pretty great for Jackson or anybody else to come over there.

I mean, it's one thing to talk about, you know, the civilians that are dead in Israel today. Last week there were seven Palestinian children dead in an attack on the Hamas leadership.

I mean, this cycle of violence is going nowhere. I don't think -- you know, and I really think the Israelis have to take a large part of this responsibility. And some days the president says that, and sometimes he doesn't.

JORDAN: Yes, I so agree with that.

In fact, the sole key to peace in the Middle East is getting out of those occupied territories. Like you were talking about, that cycle of violence, it's one bloody battle after another, deaths upon deaths.

And what we do, we give the Palestinians back their land. The Israeli settlers have said, even in a CNN poll the other day, that they're willing to get out of there with some economic compensation. So let's get out of there.

And I guarantee you that these suicide bombings are going to go away because the reasons these are happening is because that land is occupied, because these are a frustrated people. These are obviously the most frustrated.

And I think it's horrible that they're happening. I don't excuse Hamas at all. But you have to look at all of the underlying issues with this. It's not black and white at all. It's not good against bad; it's bad against bad. (CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: ... jump in, go ahead.

FITTON: Well, we all get frustrated at times and, you know, I don't go blow myself up just because I don't like the politics of my neighbor.

(CROSSTALK)

FITTON: And what's going on here is that you have terrorist activity, that people are trying to murder innocents in order to achieve political results, and Jesse Jackson is going and helping Yasser Arafat, who has a habit of murdering innocents in order to...

(CROSSTALK)

MURDOCK: There's one thing I wish the administration would be more honest with the American public about, and that is the fact that the Saudi Arabian government, specifically the interior minister, run something called the committee for the defense of the intifada in Jerusalem, or Al-Quds, as it is said in Arabic. And they provide $5,300 to the families of these Hamas and other -- Al Aqsa and other homicide bombers in the West Bank who go up and kill innocent civilians in Israel.

JORDAN: That's actually not true.

MURDOCK: In actual anti-Semitic violence. There have been documents found by the Israeli defense force on the West Bank demonstrating this, and yet we still have crown Prince Abdullah coming to Crawford, Texas to hang out at the ranch in Texas with the president.

I think that's really unfortunate, and the Saudis ought to be called on the carpet for this sort of thing.

JORDAN: Well, the money actually went to, not necessarily Hamas, it went to family members of victims of Israeli forces, that's where the money went.

MURDOCK: Including the families of the homicide bombers who specifically went out and murdered Israeli citizens.

JORDAN: I'm not so certain that's fact.

(CROSSTALK)

MURDOCK: I have an article in nationalreview.com and also the "New York Post" about this.

(CROSSTALK)

REED: ... they're not frustrated at politics. They are frustrated, as she just said, of being on occupied land, of being the victims of violence themselves over and over and over again... FITTON: They are not the victims of violence, they are the victims of their own leadership...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Hang on for me, I'm going to jump in here, OK, and I'm going to get Robert (ph) from Ohio, give him a chance to speak out.

Go ahead Robert (ph).

Are you still there Robert (ph).

CALLER: Yes, I'm here.

I believe that Jesse Jackson is at least trying to be helpful.

NEVILLE: You know what, Robert, start your statement again because we weren't able to hear the first part of it.

CALLER: OK. I believe that Jesse Jackson is at least trying to be helpful, and that the people on your panel are the real war mongers.

JORDAN: Yes, I'm with him on that.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Another audience member here...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Can you guys hear me? Panel, can you hear me? I hear you loud and clear, because I'm not sure you're hearing me because every time I try to start speaking, it...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Hang on for me here, I've got Blue Jay (ph), is that your name?

BLUE JAY: Yes ma'am.

NEVILLE: OK.

BLUE JAY: I think that, coming from America, Jesse Jackson would have, you know, a positive influence on other countries. And if he's trying to start peace, in other countries, then I think that he is going to do a lot better job of that that than sending them war soldiers to try to keep the peace, because it can only be understood through understanding, not war.

NEVILLE: Not violence.

JORDAN: Listen to the youth of America...

MURDOCK: There's a law called the Logan Act which prevents American citizens from going overseas and negotiating on behalf of the American government, and I think if the Department of Justice wanted to pursue it, they could probably throw Jesse Jackson in jail for what he is doing right now.

JORDAN: Well, why don't they actually pursue an investigation on George W. Bush and Harken and something that actually is real?

MURDOCK: I'm not sure of what Harken has to do with peace in the Middle East. I really don't see the connection.

JORDAN: I'm talking about investigations! Let's pick the right investigation!

FITTON: We go from suicide bombings to Harken. That's good.

MURDOCK: That's quite a leap there. That was magnificent.

NEVILLE: All right, guys. I'm going to take an e-mail now on this subject that we happen to be discussing.

Let's pop up the e-mail. It's from Ben: "Jesse Jackson's trip will not succeed. The only time that Mideast peace talks will succeed is when extremist groups will be pushed out of power on both sides."

Juline, respond to that for me.

JORDAN: Well, absolutely, I don't think that this is right at all. I think that peace is the word here, peace is the bottom line.

I'm for anything that is going to promote peace, and obviously, as we have already said, this is not working. So if Jesse Jackson can make a difference, he's made a difference in a few different situations around the world. Hey, give it a shot, Jesse. Go, Jesse, go!

NEVILLE: And on that note you can hear what Jesse Jackson himself has to say tonight on CROSSFIRE at 7:30 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. OK, we take another break. Up next, parents behaving way badly. They're out of control. Stick around for this story. We're back in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Still ahead on TALKBACK LIVE, sports rage. A senior little league brawl sends a baby to the ground and claims an earlobe. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) kids and parents behaving badly. Exactly what do we think sports is teaching our kids? Tell us about the mood at your ballpark after the break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody, TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. Well, it has happened again. Listen to this story, people. We're talking about parents who take their kids' sports too seriously.

Here's the scene: a senior Little League game in Port St. Lucie, Florida, OK? Members of the losing team began yelling obscenities at the winning team, and an irate fan took a fist to one of the foul mouthed players, OK?

Now, suddenly all you know what broke loose, OK? And in the confusion, a 9-month-old baby was knocked out of her mother's arms onto the ground. She wasn't hurt, thank goodness, and at the end of the fight, one dad was left without an earlobe. Now that's just way out of control, Julia. Why are these parents out of control?

REED: I don't know. It sounds like the Palestinians and the Israelis. We shouldn't be talking about those folks overseas. You know, this is not, as you pointed out, new, and I remember what I had to do a piece on child beauty pageants after Jonbenet Ramsey's death, and everybody said, oh, it's so terrible, those parents like make their little girls go out there and do this kind of stuff, and I thought to myself, wait a minute, I've seen this at Little League games my whole life.

I mean, I don't know what the answer is except these parents need to get another project besides their kids' sporting events. I mean, it's just awful.

NEVILLE: And how do we punish these parents, Tom? What do you think?

FITTON: Well, maybe prevent them from going to the games, or banning parents from watching their children play. But when you see coaches choking their athletes, and athletes choking their coaches, it shouldn't surprise us that this sort of thing happens on the field, and you know, you've got the children acting like children, and you've got the adults acting like children. Who is running the show?

NEVILLE: Exactly.

I have got some advice here from Patrick. What do you say, Patrick?

PATRICK: The large amount of money given to professional athletes puts too much pressure on the game, and kids don't enjoy the game, and parents don't enjoy the game anymore.

NEVILLE: Interesting, interesting. Deroy, did you hear that?

MURDOCK: I did. I don't think it has very much to do with the salaries of these professional athletes, but I think the tone on many of these cases set by the off court and sometimes even the on court behavior of these athletes, for example.

And where did the -- this parent get the idea of biting the ear of this other parent?

NEVILLE: Boxing? MURDOCK: I imagine he probably got it from Mike Tyson's biting of Evander Holyfield, and you had just a couple days ago Allen Iverson of the Philadelphia 76ers, who essentially was -- all the charges of essentially wife beating and breaking into a home with a gun and so on were dropped by a judge, who, I read yesterday, was delighted to have Mr. Iverson in his court, and said that he was a big fan of the 76ers, a fan of Iverson, and he said something like I had to put away my Iverson T-shirt before I came to the courtroom today.

He laughed the whole thing off and dropped charges, and so often these well paid athletes don't see consequences to their behavior. They don't see much accountability, and...

NEVILLE: Bring it back home to...

(CROSSTALK)

Oh, I see. OK.

REED: Let's not forget Tonya Harding kneecapping Nancy Kerrigan...

(CROSSTALK)

...celebrity on a wrestling match.

NEVILLE: Let me get Ross (ph) here from Florida.

ROSS: I'm just curious where the coaches are controlling the players, if it was started by the players yelling at each other, where were the coaches controlling the players more than even the parents?

NEVILLE: So what's your point? I'm not sure if I understood.

ROSS: Why don't the coaches do anything? Why aren't they controlling their kids?

FITTON: You know, when I was a little kid, the idea of cursing in front of any adult, especially an adult in a supervisory role like a coach or a teacher, something like that -- that was beyond me.

Maybe I was just a nice little boy, but I have a feeling a lot of other kids thought the way I did, and the idea that this is allowed -- obviously these kids thought they could get away with cursing out the other team. A lot of people will be held responsible here, including each and every one of the parents of those children.

JORDAN: That's exactly right, if I could jump in. I have to say two words: anger management, and two more words, grow up! because what's going on here? Have you ever noticed that it's just men doing this? I know the women yell and do the same thing...

FITTON: Oh, gosh. Here we go.

(CROSSTALK)

REED: Hold on. What about the cheerleader's mother who shot the other cheerleader?

JORDAN: ...why is it angry men?

FITTON: There you go.

JORDAN: OK, that is one incident, one incident of all of these.

MURDOCK: Who was that ice skater? Was it Tonya Harding? Remember the Tonya Harding case?

REED: Yes, that's what I just said.

NEVILLE: Hang on, guys. Listen, Juline, what you said -- these -- this whole row went ballistic, and they're all females. I tell you what. You guys, can you hold your peace for a second? I have to take a break. I will let each one of you speak out and respond to what Ms. Juline just said after this break, and I know some e-mails are standing by. I'll take those after the break as well.

It's getting hot in her. You know, my boy Nelly? You get it? Thank you very much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: OK, Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.

Before the break we were talking about parents who get out of control at sports games. And Juline, one of our panelists, said that, do you notice it's women -- or men who get out of control?

And this whole line of ladies here just had something to say. I'm going to let them speak out now.

Go ahead Jen (ph).

JEN: Well, I'm from Canada, and I can definitely say that anyone who's ever been to a little league hockey game, the moms get way more aggressive than the dads. And I think that's true across the board. You can never make a comment that it's the women and not the men, or the men and not the women.

JORDAN: But the women aren't taking it to that level. The men are taking it to the level where they're biting off earlobes.

There's a difference here.

NEVILLE: Juline, guess what -- you know what, they all jeered when you said that. So you have to stand by for a second and take the heat, because I'm going to go down the line and let them speak out.

JORDAN: Come on ladies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I really don't agree with Juline, but I wanted to add that when parents sign their children up for sports like these and teach them about team spirit and effort and sportsmanship, and when they go and do this it backfires and it totally doesn't do that at all because they don't -- they look up to their parents. And when they see that, they just follow in their steps.

NEVILLE: They follow their steps.

Melanie (ph)?

MELANIE: I just wanted to say, even though we're all women, it's not necessarily the men all the time, and it's definitely the women a lot.

NEVILLE: OK, thank you.

Danielle (ph)?

DANIELLE: There are plenty of women that are aggressive at the sports, just like the mothers -- they force their kids to do, like, dancing and stuff their whole entire lives, and they pressure them so much just to make sure. And then sometimes they become is so like anorexic.

NEVILLE: Stage moms, right?

Do you play sports?

DANIELLE: Yes, I play basketball.

NEVILLE: Do you get in fights, elbowing and stuff like that on the court?

DANIELLE: Yes.

NEVILLE: See.

Camilla (ph), what do you say?

CAMILLA: I'd just like to say I live in London, and even I've heard about all the violence that goes on in the cheerleading squads. So I think that to say that about the men, it's a bit wrong when you see girls slapping each other on the courts and everything because of cheerleading.

NEVILLE: And of course you over there in England are much too polite to do anything like this, right?

Lindsey (ph), what do you say?

LINDSEY: Well, I have two things to say. First, I just really don't agree with her because I think even though women don't have more testosterone, in some cases we do.

And another thing is that by having the parents fighting and doing this is just, if you want peace, it's not going to get there because children learn from their parents and it's not going to help at all.

NEVILLE: Absolutely, thank you.

Lisa (ph)?

LISA: Hi. Again on what Camilla (ph) was saying -- I think she's referring to the attempted murder charge on the mother in Texas who tried to kill a child for trying out for cheerleading, which was ridiculous.

But also...

NEVILLE: To say the least.

LISA: Yes -- as a gymnast growing up I watched parents arguing and bribing judges. And it's just -- it's ridiculous. We've lost the sportsmanship and put much too much on the win.

NEVILLE: OK, thank you.

And Marla (ph)?

MARLA: You have soccer moms. There's a term there -- mom as opposed to a soccer dad. So there are women just as involved in the children's sports activities and being aggressive and...

JORDAN: But they're not biting off their earlobes.

MARLA: Biting is one thing...

(CROSSTALK)

REED: Well, if that's the only thing -- if that's the bar...

(CROSSTALK)

MARLA: ... there is still aggression, there is still yelling, there is still screaming, there are still cat fights. And there are things going on that women do just as fathers do. So it is not a -- it's a sexist statement that you're making.

Parents are still too involved in their children's activities that are supposed to be fun and educational and just things for them to do as kids.

NEVILLE: All right, listen Juline, by the way, I know you believe in girl power. I know that.

JORDAN: Well where are my feminist sisters, Arthel?

(CROSSTALK)

FITTON: Juline you hear that? You're a sexist. You're a sexist Juline.

REED: I think it's bad to say that anything short of biting off an ear is OK, that's not so violent.

JORDAN: They all need anger management. And they're all terrible role models, terrible role models. NEVILLE: I have a caller who's standing by -- I think this is going to be interesting -- his name is Mike, I think -- Michael, and he's calling in.

Mike is -- Michael is an umpire, right, for Little League baseball someplace?

CALLER: Yes I am.

NEVILLE: What city?

CALLER: In Missouri.

NEVILLE: OK, what do you say about all of this?

CALLER: I think the game basically starts with the officials, so we need to look at the officials. If our officials are better trained to recognize the problems before they escalate, then we would probably be able to eliminate some of this.

I've been doing it for 13 years. I really haven't had any problems. I had my parents get out of control, but you ask the coach to talk to go parents. If the officials don't talk to the parents, you won't have that problem.

Most of the times when the parents want to go crazy, they start with the officials, so...

NEVILLE: So you have them kicked out of the game is what you're saying, maybe...

CALLER: I ask the coach to ask that parent to leave. That's what I do.

NEVILLE: And what happens when you do that, though? Does that make them even more irate?

CALLER: No, because I give them one minute to leave the game. You have one minute to get out. If you do not leave this game, I will forfeit the game. And that's taking away from their kid. So if you want to punish your kid for going out there, acting silly then, you know, you have to deal with that.

MURDOCK: That's hardball.

FITTON: That's the way to do it.

NEVILLE: I think that's really good.

OK, I've got Stephanie (ph) here in the audience.

STEPHANIE: Hi. When parents, like, watch the games and get so into the games that, like, they get aggressive and, I guess that's why they get like that, because they want their kids to do the best they can, and sometimes they don't, and they want them to and it's just...

NEVILLE: But it's not right for them to get that out of control, right? They blow up.

STEPHANIE: So it's just like they freak out about it and they shouldn't. They should let their kids do what they want and feel that they know they can play without getting pushed into doing it.

NEVILLE: All right Stephanie (ph), thank you very much.

Listen, I have an e-mail on this subject. I want to go ahead and pop it on the screen and share it with everybody.

It says -- from Karen in Ontario -- says: "When my son played basketball years ago, we pulled him out because of vulgar, loud and bossy mothers."

Shame, shame, shame.

JORDAN: They need to get control of themselves. Come on! Control yourselves, people!

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: What did you say Deroy?

MURDOCK: All of this and Prozac nation, it's amazing.

REED: Now we know Prozac doesn't work anymore, though.

NEVILLE: We are...

(LAUGHTER)

OK, listen, I have to take a break right now. Up next, we are going to talk about a girl who is suing her school because she was not allowed to talk about homosexuality during diversity week. Stick around for that one.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.

It was diversity week at Pioneer High School in Ann Arbor, Michigan. But student Betsy Hansen says her views weren't welcome when she tried to address an assembly on homosexuality and religion. Betsy is Roman Catholic and planned to speak about her objections to homosexuality based on her beliefs. Now, a lawyer for Ann Arbor Public Schools says her claims are not true.

And I'm going to take a break right now because I've got to toss to my colleague Kyra Phillips, who is standing by in the newsroom -- Kyra.

(INTERRUPTED FOR LIVE EVENT) TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com