Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

U.N. Releases Jenin Report; Interview with Charlotte Frances Cole

Aired August 01, 2002 - 08:47   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.N. is releasing a report today on its investigation of the Israeli attack on the Jenin refugee camp last March. Jenin was hardest hit in a military operation launched right after a series of Palestinian suicide bombings.
CNN U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth, who is here in New York, has seen the report -- good morning, Richard. What's in it?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good morning, Paula. That report is coming out right now by the United Nations. It's being released at U.N. headquarters, and I think everyone remembers the most famous point at that Jenin investigation was that the Palestinians charged that there were war crimes, and that there were massacres committed.

Well, this United Nations document says that a figure of at least 500 dead -- quote -- "cannot be substantiated in light of the evidence that has emerged."

That's what they're saying about the Palestinian claims there. The report also was critical of the Palestinians in noting that much of the fighting took place in areas heavily populated by civilians in large part -- quote -- "because the armed Palestinian groups sought by the Israeli Defense Forces placed their combatants in installations among civilians, and in many cases heavy weaponry was used."

Israel is criticized for not allowing access for humanitarian workers, emergency vehicles, and journalists, and the report says in many cases people died on the Palestinian side.

This report, though, it tiptoes very carefully, though. It does not make major judgment. It just puts out the points raised by each side. Israel did not cooperate with this report, and officials on the Israeli side are calling this the "Google report" because this team that wrote the report didn't even go to Jenin or any of the surrounding areas. They were not allowed to. Thus, the Google Internet search reference because the people who wrote this report relied on newspaper accounts -- Paula.

ZAHN: Richard, let's see if we can clear this up. If this report says they can't substantiate the Palestinian claim of some 500 lives lost, the Israelis always maintain it was closer to 52, will we ever know how many people lost their lives here?

ROTH: Well, we may never know, but both the United Nations and human rights organizations have issued reports now which refute any claims to widespread massacres, a wide total (ph). The Palestinian reaction today, Palestinian leaders saying the report is still an important step. Remember that U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan wanted to send an experienced team of diplomats to Jenin, firsthand view, but Israel blocked this investigation from going there.

ZAHN: So Richard, in the end, what do they do with this report?

ROTH: Well, it becomes public record. But now, supporters of Arab countries will go to the U.N. General Assembly Monday morning. A lot of speeches, but no major action will occur. And, of course, the Israelis say they're having a big debate, and this report is coming out just hours after suicide bombing attacks in Israel.

ZAHN: All right, Richard Roth, thank you for giving us a preview of that report that is just coming hot off the presses now. Thank you. Appreciate it.

And we are going to go back to Bill now -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Keep it in the Middle East now, Paula. A topic here. We know a lot of real streets in the Middle East are filled with terror and bloodshed, but now children there cannot even find their way to a happier street, "Sesame Street."

The Middle East version of that show featured a mythical street where Israelis and Palestinians lived together in peace. Now it has been deemed too unrealistic, and the show has been pulled.

Gone is "Sesame Street," replaced by "Sesame Stories." Here to talk about it, Charlotte Frances Cole, vice president for education and research for Sesame Workshop -- good morning to you.

CHARLOTTE FRANCES COLE, VICE PRESIDENT, SESAME WORKSHOP: Good morning.

HEMMER: It really says, I think, in an overall sense a strong statement about the situation in the Middle East right now, does it not?

COLE: Well, I think where we are right now is working on a project that is trying to meet the needs on the ground, and in terms of our process, we are always working locally with people, educators, and we try very hard to listen to what they are telling us. Where we are now, compared to where we were years ago when we began this project is -- we're in a different place because the country is in a different place. The region is in a different place.

HEMMER: Indeed. The entire region... that's right. So you go from "Sesame Street" to "Sesame Stories." The change means what, then?

COLE: Well, the change really reflects this change in the political arena. We -- "Sesame Street" has always reflected something beyond reality, it's a fantasy world, but it also reflects authentic representations of people's lives. And so, what -- in terms of our process, what we do is we really canvas the local educators, people who really know children in their own country, and we ask them to tell us -- to give us what they think are the critical needs for kids.

HEMMER: But given "Sesame Stories," as you go into production, how will you teach the lessons, how will you teach the message, as opposed to the old production, "Sesame Street"?

COLE: Well, what's different is you won't see the "Sesame Street" like you see here in the United States, and what you saw on the previous production. What you will see is these "Sesame Stories," and they are animated stories from fairy-tales from local tales, local lore that will be animated. They are short animations, and they are sort of allegorical.

So, for example, one of my favorites is about Hasan (ph) and ghoul. And Hasan (ph) is in a village, and there is a problem with the ghoul, everybody is afraid of this ghoul. And Hasan (ph), who is a little bit braver than most, decides that he is going to find out about this ghoul, and he seeks out the ghoul. And sure enough, what he finds is that the ghoul is as afraid of Hasan (ph) as Hasan (ph) is of the ghoul. So, it's a story about reserving judgment, suspending judgment, learning about prejudice. The fact that you can overcome fears by learning about someone else's humanity.

HEMMER: There are a few other examples here, Charlotte. Hummus and falafel you used to show what, a common trait? The fact that you eat virtually the same thing in the Mediterranean style?

COLE: Well, you know, we're working with very young children, so we need to be providing messages that are going to be meaningful to kids. So we try to take elements from kids' daily lives. So food is a good example. And if I learn, Wow, you eat the same food that I do? I know hummus, I know falafel. It gives you a common bond, a sense of someone else's commonality. What we're really trying to do in this region is help humanize the other for these kids. It's a lot harder to hate someone if you know something about them, and we're trying to counter the images the kids are seeing that are very negative.

HEMMER: There are new characters, too. One is a rooster. Represents what?

COLE: Well, the rooster character is a Palestinian character, and it's based on a Palestinian cultural icon, the rooster. So when the Palestinians develop their character, they wanted to have a rooster that would represent that.

HEMMER: Do people watch these, "Sesame Street," now "Sesame Stories" in the Middle East?

COLE: Well, we won't be on the air until next year for "Sesame Stories," but "Sesame Street" has been very...

HEMMER: What kind of reaction do you get, Charlotte, from this?

COLE: Well, people love "Sesame Street," and parents trust "Sesame Street," and when we've done research in the region, we fond that people do like the fact that there is something for their kids that is helping them learn. So the reaction has been fairly positive in terms of parents.

HEMMER: Your producers are quite unique, too. The Palestinian, the Jordanian and the Israeli, too.

COLE: Right.

HEMMER: Well, good luck.

COLE: Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

HEMMER: That part of the world needs it. Charlotte Frances Cole from Sesame Workshop.

COLE: Thank you. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com