Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Sound Off: Cliff May, Bob Beckel

Aired August 01, 2002 - 09:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The fact that five out of the seven people killed in Jerusalem yesterday were Americans is adding new pressure to the Bush administration as it looks for a path towards Middle East peace. The death comes as President Bush gets ready to sit down this morning with King Abdullah of Jordan.

And joining me now from Washington for today's "Sound Off," former RNC communications director Cliff May, and Democratic political strategist Bob Beckel -- good morning, gentlemen.

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Good morning, Paula.

CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

ZAHN: So Bob, I heard you got in an accident on the way to work. We are sorry. Are you OK?

BECKEL: Yes, I am OK. It was a right wing conspiracy. Somebody hit us -- we were stopped and somebody was 60 miles an hour, and he had a telling -- he looked exactly like Cliff, so I don't know. I'll make it.

MAY: I didn't ask the guy...

BECKEL: I am one of the last middle aged white guys who is liberal in America, so I have got to show up.

MAY: I didn't ask the driver to hit him that hard, honestly, Paula.

ZAHN: Boy, you're lucky, Bob. Do you have whiplash?

BECKEL: Yes, but I played football for so many years, it is hard to determine which is that. But anyway, I am OK.

ZAHN: Well, all right.

MAY: It is a Democrat. The CNN lawyers better be ready.

BECKEL: Yes, right.

ZAHN: Well, we are glad you showed up for duty. Sorry to hear you had a traumatic morning. Let's turn to the Middle East now, gentlemen. Since the intifada started in September of 2000, you had 14 Americans killed, add to that five yesterday, five more from the Hebrew University. What does this do to change any sort of dynamic that President Bush has to deal with, Bob?

BECKEL: Well, I'm not sure it changes the dynamic all that much. I mean, if you listen to what Bush has said after every one of the incidences, it is the same thing. These are cowards, they are killers, they are trying to disrupt the peace process, and we are going to keep going. I don't know what else he can say. The only thing he could say and didn't, which I am sure is a clear signal to Israel, is that he didn't ask Israel to show restraint, so my guess is this is going to be a pretty significant retaliation.

ZAHN: Cliff?

MAY: You know, I don't necessarily agree with Bob on this one at all. I think it reinforces that what President Bush has been saying, particularly in his June 24 speech and since is exactly correct. Bush has said to the Palestinians, if you want our help to achieve statehood, you can have it, but only after it's clear that you have given up terrorism and embraced democracy. They are not doing that, and so the goal of the two-state solution, if that's what Arafat wants, I don't it is, I think it is what most Palestinians want, that goal is receding, not getting closer, and the killing of Americans at a University where Arab and Jews went -- attended together, that is such an outrageous thing to have happened. It really hurts any Palestinian cause that is legitimate.

ZAHN: All right. Let's talk about what Secretary of State Powell is up against. He's supposed to meet with a Palestinian delegation on August 5 and 6, and this comes at a time when this U.N. report on Jenin has just been released. Among its conclusions, that Israel did not launch a massacre against the Palestinian population. What do you think Colin Powell should be asking of the Palestinians in these meetings, Bob?

BECKEL: What I think what he -- a lot of it is going to depend, I think, on what the discussions with Abdullah are today with Bush, but I think they are still hanging on to the notion of keeping Arafat as a potential head of government. Now, we have made this point, both Cliff and I that that is -- I don't think it is going work. But I think they are still pursuing that, and one of the reasons is is that the Saudis, the Jordanians, and the Egyptians love the idea. So we just can't drop it. But you know, the complications of -- Arafat anywhere means Arafat in control, I'm afraid.

MAY: I think it would be best, Paula, if Powell did not meet with the Palestinian Authority representatives next week.

ZAHN: Why?

MAY: Well, because of what happened with Hamas yesterday. It would have been possible -- it is still possible today for Arafat to do what he had pledged to do under Oslo and dismantle Hamas, particularly in the Gaza Strip, where Palestinian security forces are intact. They never did that, and I think -- and what Bush said is very clear, that any Palestinian Authority member who is compromised by terrorism, we're not going to deal with. Those are the people that Powell is about to meet with.

It would send signal to at least delay that. Then, when he does talk to them, he needs to reinforce the Bush doctrine and say very clearly, we are not going to give you any support until and unless you move against terrorism, or help the Israelis to do the same. It is not in the American interest to set up a Palestinian state that is terrorist sponsoring, corrupt and dictatorial and an ally of Saddam Hussein. We are not going to do it.

BECKEL: You know -- excuse me, Paula. Cliff, I tell you, your guys idea here, every time there is a bombing or every time there is an event, that we don't do anything. I mean, one of the reasons there are bombings here is that we don't have a peace process. And the idea, by the way, that Arafat would be able to take on Hamas would be like you trying to take me on when I'm in good physical shape. It would be disastrous.

MAY: There's no political process to have.

BECKEL: Wait a second. If you had a peace process of any kind going from this administration there, I would say, fine, but you don't. Any avenue.

MAY: Bob, what does that mean, a peace process? That means that the Israelis make concessions to Arafat while Hamas continues to bomb Innocent students, Israeli, Arab, the rest. There's no peace process you can have with people like Hamas, whose goal is to kill every Jew in the Middle East, ethnically cleanse the Middle East, including every inch of Israel of all the Jews. What is a peace process? What are you going to ask Hamas to do? What are you going to ask Arafat to do? Only thing you can do, Bob, in this so-called peace process at this point is ask the Jews, the Israelis, to give up something more.

Look, the peace -- I give Clinton credit. He went through the peace process right to the end, until the point where Barak said to Arafat, here it is, a state on the West Bank, capital in Jerusalem, dismantlement of settlements. Arafat said no. No counter offer, and the terrorism that continues to this day, he unleashed. That's it.

BECKEL: You must have been hit in the head like me to say something nice about Clinton like that.

MAY: It is because you are hurt. I felt badly.

BECKEL: Yes, I know -- it is a little dangerous to tread the waters I am about to tread, but I am going to do it anyway. The fact of the matter is that Israel made a very big mistake in going after the head of Hamas without the intelligence. There were nine children -- nine people in there who were killed.

ZAHN: Wait a -- wait a minute, Bob. Hasn't there been a charge that the Palestinians have long used children as shields? I mean, even this Jenin report talked about knowingly putting civilians in harm's way in Jenin.

BECKEL: Gee, I thought I would get jumped on, but I didn't think I would be jumped on that quickly. The point is that this was his family that was in there. Look -- I'm not trying to say here that the guy didn't deserve to get offed, the head of Hamas, but the Israelis said it was their view that there was nobody else in the house. That's bad intelligence. And when you do something like that, you are going to erupt passions like that. Maybe it's worth it. I don't know. But the idea that somehow, every time one of these things happens, we stop doing anything, is about as crazy an idea as I have heard of.

ZAHN: We are going to have to leave it there this morning. Mend quickly, Bob. You actually look like you're in a little bit of pain there.

BECKEL: Just a little.

ZAHN: Well, you know, with whiplash -- the problem with whiplash is you don't feel it for many, many hours.

BECKEL: Oh, thanks for hearing that.

ZAHN: Cliff, can you say on the record you had nothing to do with hurting Bob this morning?

MAY: I plead no contest. I'm sorry Bob's back is hurting him. His face is killing me.

BECKEL: He is going to run out of the studio like a scalded dog once we are off here.

(CROSSTALK)

MAY: Let him chase me in his condition. I want to see this.

ZAHN: He may have been hit in his car that was stopped by a car going 60 miles an hour, but he hasn't lost that fire. Bob Beckel, thanks so much. Cliff May, appreciate your time this morning. Take care, gentlemen.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com