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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Snatched Baby Found Within Hours; Westerfield Jury Still Out; Men Getting Married Later, Study Finds
Aired August 14, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Look very closely and you'll see a crime being committed. Find out what happened in the blink of an eye when a mother turned away from her baby. We'll tell you about it and about the happy ending.
New moves in the U.S.-Iraq chess game, suspicious activity at what may be an Iraqi biological weapons plant, and why the Pentagon is taking a new look at an American pilot lost during the Persian Gulf War.
Why is it taking a jury so long to decide whether David Westerfield murdered Danielle van Dam? We'll ask an expert. Here comes the bride, but where's the groom? Why so many men are taking their own sweet time before that trip down the aisle.
It's Wednesday, August 14, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. As we first reported here on CNN, a mother's ordeal is over. It began when her month-old baby was snatched from her minivan in an Abilene, Texas parking lot. It ended with an arrest about 125 miles away. CNN's Ed Lavandera is standing by in Abilene, Texas. He has all the details for us. Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, an incredible ending and a happy ending for this story today here in Abilene, Texas, as the Chavez family will be reunited here shortly this afternoon with her one-month-old daughter.
Nancy Chavez was abducted from a parking lot in a Wal-Mart here in Abilene yesterday afternoon by what now turns out to be a 24-year- old woman and her name is Paula Lynn Roach, and the suspect in this case. We understand that she's in the process of being processed through the jail system and will be brought back here to Abilene in the coming month.
Just a little while ago, probably about a few hours ago, the Sheriff's Department in Quanah, Texas where the baby was found with this 24-year-old woman e-mailed a picture here to the police department in Abilene of one-month-old Nancy Chavez, and you can see that she is doing just fine.
I imagine the family is here in the police station waiting to be reunited. We understand she's being flown back here to Abilene, so that reunion should be taking place rather shortly here this afternoon. As we mentioned, she was abducted from a Wal-Mart parking lot as her mother had put her three children in the car, a six-year- old, a two-year-old, and one-month-old Nancy.
She had walked away just not very far, maybe 12, 15 feet away from the car to return a shopping cart, just a matter of seconds. That's all it took, police say, for Paula Lynn Roach to swoop in and abduct the one-month-old baby and take off.
Now, law enforcement sources also tell CNN that she was pulled over about 9:00 a.m. this morning, and investigators say up in Quanah, Texas where she was found that when she was pulled over she had told investigators that the child was actually hers, that she had just been born yesterday.
And that's the story that investigators have been talking about that just didn't jibe, and of course, a one-month-old baby doesn't look like someone who was just born a day ago. So that's why police became initially suspicious of her story. In fact, they took the baby from her and told her to follow them to the police station.
We also understand that the suspect's mother was also in the car with her. Now investigators say that the Amber Alert system and the systems that go out through all of the state to help out investigators has been very helpful in trying to find this woman -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed, when you say the reunion is likely to take place very shortly, what does that mean, within the next hour or two hours?
LAVANDERA: Well, they're working on that. She's being flown back. We understand she's in the process of just getting ready to leave Quanah, Texas, so it's not a very long plane ride. She'll be flown here to the airport and then brought over here to the police station, where the family is awaiting. So I imagine probably within the hour, hour-and-a-half or so.
BLITZER: And, of course, CNN will have live coverage. We'll be standing by for that. Ed, stand by for us, as well, as more information becomes available.
I want to bring in Captain Barry Carver right now of the Texas Rangers. He's joining us. Captain, I understand there's a hero in this important story that you want to talk about. What's going on?
CAPTAIN BARRY CARVER, TEXAS RANGERS: Well, we had basically just good police work involved in Quanah, Texas. We had a deputy and a sheriff received information there of this suspect showing off the baby around town, and it just did not appear that the baby was a newborn infant.
And the people calling in had already heard about the abduction in Abilene and basically made a phone call to the sheriff and gave him the information thus resulting in the detention and the arrest of the suspect involved.
BLITZER: And how specifically did that work out? How long did that take from the suspicion until the actual successful rescue of that little baby? CARVER: Actually not very long, just a matter of several minutes, once they left a certain place of business there in town, and the deputies made the traffic stop and helped identify the child.
BLITZER: You were clearly pleased with the way the system worked in this particular case, the Amber Alert that we've been talking so much about over these past few days?
CARVER: Yes, absolutely. I mean it's certainly going to be a thing of the future that's going to assist law enforcement in these type of cases. You know actually though the end result was the fact that people in the community in which we serve actually are the eyes and ears of the law enforcement and they are the ones to take the credit on this particular case, because they're the ones that provided the information to lead us to the arrest.
BLITZER: Captain Barry Carver of the Texas Rangers, thanks for joining us by phone. And as we have reported, Nancy Crystal Chavez is to be reunited very soon with her parents, and as we also say, CNN is planning live coverage of that here on CNN.
The Amber Alert System which has helped authorities find kidnapping victims in so many states, started in the Dallas, Texas area but this is the first time Texas has issued a statewide Amber Alert. Police say the rescue was the answer to a lot of prayers.
Sergeant Kim Vickers is with the Abilene Police Department's Critical Missing Response Team. He joins us now as well. Sergeant, thanks so much for joining us. The system obviously worked this time, didn't it?
SGT. KIM VICKERS, ABILENE POLICE: This was a very good situation for us. Everything fell into place. We were very concerned about the welfare of this young lady, and I think the Amber Alert System really assisted us in trying to get the information out to the public, which as the captain said, that's our eyes, and that's how you solve a case like this is by getting the public to see and look for you, and somewhere somebody was going to see this child. So, we're really excited about that.
BLITZER: In order to trigger the Amber Alert System, specifically what needs to be shown to police, local and state in order to get this Amber Alert going?
VICKERS: My understanding is that it's triggered whenever you have a critically missing child and that can take a couple of different categories, but definitely kidnapping, which once we got to the scene of where this happened at the Wal-Mart, one of the Wal-Marts here in Abilene, it was very quickly determined that this would be a legitimate kidnapping, and that is a very automatic trigger for that system.
BLITZER: What do you know, if anything, about the individual suspected in the kidnapping?
VICKERS: We know very little at this point. We have gotten a little bit of background information on her. We know that she had been living in Quanah for some time, that she had moved to Abilene for a few months and had been working here I believe at a convenience store is what I understand.
And I don't know whether she had intended on going back and staying in Quanah with this child or whether she just thought she would go there until it kind of cooled down a little bit here. But she had been staying in Abilene just prior to this incident occurring.
BLITZER: Is there any motive that you have determined so far for this kidnapping?
VICKERS: I don't know that we have an exact motive for this. I know that the investigators have spoken with her already and she has been talking to them to some degree, and I've not had the opportunity to share any information with them on that.
However, we did a lot of work with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children throughout this incident and they've provided us with quite a bit of information that is pretty insightful to be quite frank into this type of offense and the type of person we're looking for.
And my understanding is her profile fits the classic abduction type, infant abduction type offense, and I think that we're not going to be real surprised with her personality traits and some of the situations that we're going to find once we get to the bottom of why she did this.
BLITZER: And, Sergeant, do you have any fresh information on when the reunion, the happy reunion will indeed take place?
VICKERS: We were hoping it would have already taken place. We've had a little bit of transportation problems trying to get the plane to her, to an airstrip that's large enough to carry the plane. So, we're hoping here within the next maybe 30 to 45 minutes that they'll be back. We don't know exactly what time yet, but we're hoping it's within that time and then we will reunite the parents with this little girl and I'm sure that everybody's going to be very pleased at that time.
BLITZER: I think you're right, Sergeant. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for giving us the good news, and CNN, of course, will be continuing to cover this story. We'll be there live for that reunion. Hopefully, it will take place very, very soon, good news today from Texas.
There was also a happy ending to that missing girl story in Los Angeles that we reported about 24 hours ago. The four-year-old who disappeared from an L.A. park has turned up alive and well thanks to some alert workers at a medical clinic. CNN's Rusty Dornin has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dirty, somewhat disheveled, and sporting a new do, her hair chopped off courtesy of her kidnapper, four-year-old Jessica Cortez was returned safe and sound to her mother's arms, a little girl sporting a few requests after her ordeal.
JESSICA CORTEZ (through translator): I want to eat broth.
DORNIN: What do you want to eat?
CORTEZ (through translator): Broth.
DORNIN: Police called the staff at this medical clinic in Los Angeles the true heroes in this story, their suspicions aroused when the suspect brought the little girl in complaining of a sore throat.
DENISE LEON, ST. JOJHN'S WELL CHILD CLINIC: If you guys only saw the baby coming into the office, it's not the norm, OK. The baby was dirty. Mamma didn't answer any questions to me. There's a lot of little things that also, you know, lighted up a fuse in my head, saying this isn't right.
DORNIN: Patricia Cornejo was arrested as the prime kidnapping suspect in this case, the mother of four, including a four-year-old girl.
MARTIN POMEROY, INTERIM CHIEF, LOS ANGELES POLICE: The motive remains a bit hazy at this moment. We'll talk further to little Jessica and further to the suspect. We're just not quite sure why this woman did what she did.
DORNIN: News of Jessica's return was cause for joyous celebration in this neighborhood, a neighborhood at the heart of L.A.'s Latino community. An outpouring of love and support from the community, even the family was overwhelmed, and brought Jessica back to the park to thank everyone. Prayers answered for a little girl's safe return yet one more reason for families here to be extra cautious. Rusty Dornin, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: There's also a follow-up to another missing child case. Twelve-year-old Yukunja (ph) disappeared from arriving from China with a tour group, many of you will remember about two weeks ago. It later turned out she was not abducted. Her disappearance was part of a plan to immigrate to the United States. She joined her father in Massachusetts and they plan to seek U.S. asylum. The bid could be complicated by the fact that the father is in the United States illegally.
He's under investigation in connection with the anthrax attacks but he says he's the victim of an FBI smear campaign. Hear what Steven Hatfill's spokesman has to say now about the government's latest tactics. Plus, nature unleashes its wrath on Europe. Dresden and Prague brace for the worst tonight. We'll get a live report from the rising waters.
Also, why men just don't want to commit? Here's a clue, it has something to do with sex. And our question of the day is this: Are men waiting too long to get married? Log onto my web page cnn.com/wolf, that's where you can vote. First, today's news quiz. What type of natural disaster takes the most lives each year, flood, heat wave, tornado, wildfire? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. There's a new twist in the story of Steven Hatfill, the former U.S. Army scientist who says he's being investigated in connection with the anthrax letters. Federal law enforcement sources tell CNN the FBI is circulating a photo, a photo of Hatfill.
FBI agents with the photo in hand are canvassing streets in Princeton, New Jersey, where a mailbox tested positive for anthrax last week. Authorities say Hatfill is not a suspect but one of several "persons of interest." Hatfill has denied any involvement in last fall's anthrax attacks which killed five people.
Joining us now to talk about the latest development is Pat Clawson, a personal friend and spokesman for Steven Hatfill. Pat, thanks for joining us. Well, they're circulating this photo, apparently of your friend Steven Hatfill, near that mailbox in Princeton, New Jersey that tested positive for anthrax. Was he in Princeton around that time?
PAT CLAWSON, HATFILL'S SPOKESMAN: I spoke with Steve Hatfill just within the past hour and Steve has categorically denied that he's ever been in Princeton. He says he can't remember any time he was ever in the city, and that he couldn't even tell you where Princeton was located at in New Jersey.
He claims he's never been in Princeton, last year, year before, any time that he can remember, and also claims that he's never even been to Princeton University.
BLITZER: Has he been near Princeton, New Jersey, any place, any towns outside of Princeton?
CLAWSON: Apparently some time in the latter part of November, he took a train from Washington, D.C. with another scientist to attend a conference outside of Trenton, New Jersey. They went up on the Amtrak, went to the train station, went to the conference, went back to the train station, and came back down to the Washington, D.C. area and that was it and that wasn't the time frame of the anthrax letters. But as far as this post office box in Princeton, New Jersey, Steve states categorically he's never been to Princeton.
BLITZER: Now there's another suspicious, perhaps coincidence, perhaps not. He was in London at some point last year at just exactly the time when a letter was mailed from London, a hoax anthrax letter, to Senator Tom Daschle, the Majority Leader.
CLAWSON: Yes.
BLITZER: That sounds suspicious. CLAWSON: Well, I spoke with him about that and he doesn't recall the specific dates involved because the FBI has confiscated all of his travel documents. They have his travel documents, his entire travel schedule from the last year. They know exactly where he was when.
He tells me that he arrived at Heathrow Airport, took a car up to a United Nations training facility out near Swenton (ph), England. That's where he spent his time was in Swenton, England, not in London or anywhere close to it, did his training, got back on a plane, came back to the United States. He was training there to become a weapons inspector, to inspect what's going on over in Baghdad.
BLITZER: So is again categorically denying that he mailed a hoax anthrax letter to Senator Daschle from London?
CLAWSON: I asked him point blank if he had mailed that letter and he told me no and he knows nothing about it, and furthermore, he didn't mail anything to anyone when he was on that trip to the U.K.
BLITZER: As you know, there's a lot of suspicious things involving this investigation, involving your friend Steven Hatfill. He says he was never directly involved in anthrax research or anything like that while he worked at the Army Bioweapons Center in Fort Detrick, Maryland.
CLAWSON: Well, what he stated is that he's never worked with the bacteria and that he's never been handling that bacteria in the laboratories.
BLITZER: But he was in close proximity with anthrax and with people who worked with anthrax.
CLAWSON: Well, there are many people I'm sure, at Fort Detrick that worked with anthrax. Frankly, Wolf, I'm not familiar with how the laboratories are arranged up there physically, what departments are next to which.
BLITZER: So he did have some knowledge of anthrax, though, obviously?
CLAWSON: Well, I think he had a basic scientific understanding of it but I can't tell you that for sure, because I don't know what work he had been doing scientifically. But what I can tell you is that he has stated in his news conference that he didn't work with anthrax, that that wasn't his field of specialty.
He worked with viruses. I happen to know from our conversations that he worked with the Ebola virus and he's come forward and he's talked about that.
BLITZER: Handwriting, is there any similarity as far as you know between his handwriting and the handwriting on those anthrax letters?
CLAWSON: None. Zero. As a matter of fact, that's another matter that we've discussed, and I think you'll be seeing his attorney say something about that quite conclusively in the next several days. BLITZER: Like what?
CLAWSON: Like the handwriting doesn't match by any stretch. The FBI, Wolf, has had for weeks if not months copies of his handwriting. They grabbed his travel documents. They grabbed the paperwork that was in his apartment. They have plenty of material in his own handwriting.
You know there's something very disturbing, though, about what's going on today in Princeton. The FBI is circulating a photograph to the residents of Princeton, a photograph of Steve Hatfill, and asking if they saw him near that mailbox. That's a very bad investigative technique.
It's OK to do a photo canvass, but if you're going to do something like this legitimately that's going to hold up in court, you need to have photographs of a variety of suspects so that you can eliminate out any false identifications.
BLITZER: How do you know they're not doing that?
CLAWSON: We've been told that by the witnesses up there. CNN has reported it, that only the picture of Hatfill has been shown to people. They aren't showing the pictures of any of the other 29 persons of interest. There's something fundamentally flawed about what's going on up there as an investigative technique.
BLITZER: He's on his way back here from Louisiana, is that right?
CLAWSON: No, it's my understanding that he is in Louisiana at the present time, and frankly he's trying to avoid the public. He told me a little while ago he went out to shopping mall to pick up some items, some household items, and people were stopping him in the shopping mall asking him for his autograph, and it's just driving him nuts. This is a very private guy.
BLITZER: Is he still being followed by the FBI wherever he goes?
CLAWSON: That's a good question. I don't know if he is or not. I know the other night when I stood in front of his lawyer's office in Alexandria, Virginia last Thursday night I watched a government surveillance team following him. I counted at least four agents, and I've got to tell you these guys were so bad in the surveillance, so visible, they should have just hung neon signs around their neck saying they were with the FBI. I mean it was pretty pathetic how visible the surveillance was.
BLITZER: All right, Pat Clawson, good friend of Steven Hatfill, you're helping your friend and we're getting some information from you as well. Thanks for joining us.
CLAWSON: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Disastrous flooding spreading across eastern and central Europe, thousands evacuated, phone lines cut, and historic buildings under the rush of water. We'll go live to Prague to see how they're surviving this state of emergency. Plus, a toxic cloud in a small town in Missouri, find out what unleashed this chlorine gas leak. And the Pentagon reconsiders the status of Navy pilot Scott Spiker. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The answer, heat wave. FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency tells us in the United States more people die from exposure to extreme heat than all other natural disasters combined.
That, of course, was the answer to our news quiz. Record- breaking flood waters are still on the rise across parts of eastern and central Europe, and so too is the death toll. The flooding has claimed almost 100 lives. Several more deaths are reported in Germany pushing the toll there to at least ten. Dresden, where flood waters are waist high, is coping with some of its worst flooding ever. The German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has suspended his reelection campaign to deal with the flooding.
Another hard-hit city, Passau in the German state of Bavaria, three main rivers including the Danube come together in that city. The region is popular with tourists from around the world. And, a state of emergency is in effect in Slovakia's capitol Bratislava, where the Danube is on the rise. Widespread power outages are reported and some people are using boats to get to work.
In the Czech Republic's capitol Prague, the flood waters have claimed at least ten lives. It's the worst flooding there in more than a century. CNN's Mike Hanna is keeping track of this situation. He joins us now live from Prague. Mike, it must be pretty gloomy over there?
MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes indeed, Wolf. Behind me in the darkness is the river which has been in flood now for a period of time and in that darkness just beyond the river, the old city of Prague, normally at this time of the evening twinkling with lights on the historic cobblestones. At the moment, it's deserted. People have been evacuated from there, the only people there police on the lookout for anybody who may be trying to take advantage of the situation by looting.
The good news, though, is that the flood has stabilized according to the authorities. They believe that the water will be dropping over the next few days, but it will take days, perhaps weeks, before the full extent of the damage is known.
In the course of the day, moments of intense drama, one of the many who'd come down to look at the raging river flowing through Prague fell into the water. He managed to clutch on to the spars of one of the bridges, and a very brave rescue worker managed to come down the side of the bridge and hoist the man to safety.
And amidst the human suffering as well, a tragedy in the Prague Zoo, throughout the past 48 hours, workers at the zoo have been attempting to move the animals onto higher ground, the zoo just a mile or so down the river here behind me. They succeeded in a number of cases, moved a lot of animals to new quarters a bit higher, but they came up against a 35-year-old Indian elephant named Camille. They attempted to get the elephant out of its enclosure, which was flooded with water. They did not manage to succeed and the elephant died.
But still, the authorities are looking at the bright side of the stage, that the flood waters are beginning to diminish. On the gloomy side though, the number of deaths that have occurred throughout the Czech Republic at large, at least ten people have died in this flooding, and the absolutely incalculable cost to all these historic buildings, particularly here in Prague, areas like the National Theater, an absolute symbol of Czech culture.
That has been flooded. The exact extent of the damage, not known, there has been so much damage all around this river which has been raging so intensely for a number of days now and that is what the city fathers are looking to in the days ahead to see exactly how extensive the damage is and what can be done to repair it. Wolf.
BLITZER: Mike Hanna reporting live from Prague. Good luck to you and good luck to all the people in Europe, central Europe and Eastern Europe right now. When we come back, a Navy pilot shot down in the Persian Gulf War, now the Pentagon considers changing his status. Is it politics or facts driving the change of status for Scott Spiker?
Also, to many it looked like a slam dunk case, DNA evidence linking David Westerfield to the murder of Danielle van Dam, but the jury says not so fast, a look at what may be holding them up. Plus, if the man in your life just won't give you a ring, stay tuned, I'll look at why so many guys say they're in no hurry to tie the knot.
"Monsters, Inc." was a monster hit for Pixar, a computer animation studio known for its special effects. The biggest special effect of all, however, seems to be Pixar's ability to make money and it's another entry on "Fortune" Magazine's list of the 100 fastest growing companies.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pixar Studios first wowed audiences in 1995 with "Toy Story," the first fully computer animated film. Its success brought a sequel in 1999; 2001 brought another smash hit, "Monsters, Inc.," which became the second-highest grossing animated film in history.
Now celebrating its 15th anniversary, Pixas shows no signs of slowing down, reporting an 89 percent rise in first quarter net income for 2002. Pixar plans to release three more movies before 2005, completing a five-film deal with Disney.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We're standing by for a parent-child reunion in Texas. A baby snatched from a mother in a Wal-Mart parking lot. We'll see her again very soon. We'll have coverage as soon as it occurs. Also, what really happened to the first Navy pilot shot down in Iraq during the Persian Gulf War? We'll go live to the Pentagon for that as well. First, a look at some other stories making news right now.
Time is up for the top brass of hundreds of the nation's biggest companies. The Securities and Exchange Commission had set a 5:30 p.m. Eastern deadline for almost 700 companies to submit sworn statements from their CEOs that their recent financial reports are indeed accurate. Several had to restate their earnings. The SEC move is in response to the recent wave of accounting scandals. Investors apparently backed the SEC get-tough move.
The Dow gained almost 261 points to close at 8,743. The Nasdaq followed the Dow, soaring 65 points, and the S&P 500 joined the bandwagon, rising 35 points.
United Airlines says it may be forced to file for bankruptcy protection as early as this fall. The CEO of the nation's number-two airline says that step will be taken unless it can somehow cut costs. Three airlines have already filed for bankruptcy protection this year, all citing the sluggish economy, fall off in travel after September 11 and competition from low-cost carriers.
Chlorine gas leaking from a train car forced the evacuation of hundreds of people living near St. Louis and shut down two highways. Fifty people complained of breathing problems and 28 were treated at hospitals. Workers were unloading the tanker car at a chemical plant when the hose to the car ruptured. Breathing chlorine fumes can cause death in some cases.
CNN has learned the Bush administration is considering changing the status of the U.S. Navy pilot who's been missing since the first day of the Persian Gulf War. Sources say there are political motives perhaps behind this that have to do with a possible U.S. offensive against Iraq. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is following all of this and she's reporting now live from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, indeed as the U.S. is continuing to make its case against Iraq, the Bush administration is again opening the door to the possibility that Saddam Hussein knows what happened to a U.S. Navy pilot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): The fate of Navy pilot, Scott Speicher, has never been resolved. Shot down in his FA-18 in the opening hours of Operation Desert Storm, he was initially listed as killed in action. But over the years, there were rumors Speicher may have survived when he ejected or at least, the Iraqis know what happened to him.
Just before leaving office, President Clinton then had Speicher reclassified as missing in action. Now, there's talk as reclassifying Speicher as missing and captured, a move by the Bush administration that is aimed at turning up the political heat on Saddam Hussein. MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think, clearly, today's news is one more effort by the Pentagon to remind the world of how bad of a guy Saddam Hussein is and what he may be up to and what he may have been up to in the Persian Gulf War. We may have an American prisoner, essentially, hostage for all we know.
STARR: Sources tell CNN there is no evidence confirming what happened to Speicher. The move to change his status is largely being pushed by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, an anti-Iraqi hard- liner, part of the Bush administration effort to build the case against Iraq.
Iraq has made troubling moves recently. Spy satellites observed a convoy of trucks moving into a suspected Iraqi biological weapons facility near Baghdad in the town of Taji. No one is sure what was inside, but it's one facility under constant surveillance.
PHILIP REEKER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We've been very clear about our concerns about Saddam Hussein's regime and their attempts to have weapons of mass destruction, programs to that effect and missiles to deliver them, their support for terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And Wolf, in recent days, U.S. intelligence has also noted that the Iraqis have moved dozens of surface-to-air missiles and launchers to new locations within central Iraq, the area not within the "no fly" zones. U.S. intelligence estimates that Iraq is doing this to avoid the possibility of what they perceive as a possible coming U.S. air attack, but here officials say no attack is imminent --Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara Starr tapping her excellent sources at the Pentagon as usual. Thank you very much.
And yesterday on this program, we told you about the first public offer by Iraqi Kurdish leaders to let the United States use bases in the areas they control. That raises concern about Saddam Hussein perhaps launching another chemical weapons attack against the Kurds. Administration officials addressed that today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): A day after a visiting Iraqi opposition leader offered the U.S. military use of airstrips and bases in Kurdish controlled northern Iraq. The Bush administration reassured Saddam Hussein's enemies.
REEKER: Again, we fully recognize that free Iraqis run risks. The record of Saddam Hussein's regime in terms of oppressing and murdering its own people is all too clear should Saddam Hussein reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction, threaten his neighbors or U.S. forces or move against the Kurds, we would respond.
BLITZER: Beyond noting that the United States has already a -- quote -- "creditable force in the region," including the monitoring of "no fly" zones in the northern and southern parts of Iraq, the State Department didn't go into details. But U.S. officials pointedly did recall that Iraq's Kurds had been gassed by Saddam Hussein's regime in 1988. The Iraqi government was mum in the face of Kurdish leader, Jalal Talabani's offer on CNN of bases for the U.S. military in northern Iraq. Instead, the official news media in Baghdad continued its own diplomatic offensive just as President Bush's maneuvering to isolate Saddam Hussein; the Iraqi ruler is doing moving to do the same thing against the U.S. president.
The Iraqis, for example, have now renewed their invitation to U.S. lawmakers to come to Iraq to check for the development of weapons of mass destruction. Here's the ruling Ba'ath Party said. "What doest the U.S. Congress have to lose if it accepts the invitation from the Iraqi Parliament and forms a delegation accompanied by a team of experts to visit the site where their administration claims that Iraq is hiding or producing weapons of mass destruction?"
A similar invitation was rejected earlier this month as nothing more than a propaganda ploy. And there's no reason to believe this new one will be accepted. In contrast, some European parliamentarians are clearly more inclined to accept. A British Labor Party member of parliament, George Galloway, met with Saddam Hussein last Thursday for 90 minutes.
GEORGE GALLOWAY, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: He was extremely calm. He was very determined to press home the sincerity of Iraq's diplomatic moves, which over the last few weeks have been showering like confetti from Baghdad, alas, falling on stony ground so far.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And so, the diplomatic chess game between Saddam Hussein and President Bush continues, but this of course, is much more than just a game. The stakes for everyone are enormous.
The anticipation builds in San Diego, as David Westerfield awaits word of his fate. Why has the jury taken five days to decide whether he kidnapped and killed 7-year-old Danielle Van Dam? I'll speak to a highly regarded jury consultant, just ahead. And, why men are reluctant to walk down the aisle -- a new study raises some eyebrows and tensions between the sexes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Jury deliberations are now in the fifth day in the trial of David Westerfield. The 50-year-old San Diego man is charged with kidnapping and killing his 7-year-old neighbor, Danielle Van Dam. Joining us now to talk about what the lengthy deliberations and what that might mean in terms of a verdict is the jury consultant, Toni Blake.
Toni, thanks for joining us. It seemed to a lot of us, this was almost like a slam-dunk. There were hair, blood samples, DNA evidence galore. What's going on?
TONI BLAKE, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, I'm not actually feeling that it's taking that long. A lot of the press and the media feels like it's taking longer than normal, but for a death penalty trial, this is about right. I'm not feeling like it's taking all that extra long, maybe compared to what we see on TV. They're not deliberating over a commercial break. But I feel like it's OK so far.
BLITZER: So how does that work, inside a jury? What are they debating about if the evidence is so compelling?
BLAKE: When they're in there -- you know, I'm really kind of -- I'm happy with the fact that they're deliberating this long because it may -- seems that they're really taking it seriously. There are three charges, so that's going to take a little longer than just an average death penalty case too. So I imagine what they're in there doing is they're going back and forth over the evidence.
We know that they have called for some of the -- quote -- "pornography" to come in. They want that binder and they have looked at Danielle L.'s picture. And so, that leads me to believe that they may be deliberating about the pornography charge at this point.
BLITZER: Is there a sense that perhaps the defense did raise a credible doubt, a reasonable doubt?
BLAKE: Well, yes, I think there is. I mean I think -- I'm not saying for this jury that there is or is not, but obviously if they're deliberating this long it's not a slam-dunk and its something that they are looking at all of the elements. And I think that that, again, is a good thing.
BLITZER: Well, we'll be watching and Toni, you'll be watching with us. Thanks for giving us some perspective on what perhaps is going on. Toni Blake on the scene for us in California.
And a lot of anger has been directed at another jury, the one that acquitted Alejandro Avila of child molestation charges two years ago. Now, Avila stands accused of kidnapping, assaulting and killing little Samantha Runnion. Patricia Del Rio (ph) from CNN affiliate, KTLA, talked to one of the jurors from that first trial. She said there are some very good reasons why Avila was set free.
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PATRICIA DEL RIO (ph), KTLA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She calls herself "Juror Number Nine." She served on the jury that acquitted Alejandro Avila of child molestation charges two years ago. Now, in the wake of the Samantha Runnion murder in which Avila is charged, there is a tremendous outpouring of grief for the little girl and anger at the jury that set Avila free. This juror asked us to disguise her identity because she fears such public outrage, but she says she feels compelled to set the record straight.
"JUROR 9," ACQUITTED AVILA ON MOLESTATION CHARGES: They are blaming the jurors for letting him go two years ago. But as the judge said and as the D.A. himself said, we had to find him guilty all -- 100 percent, guilty without a reasonable doubt. And there was just no reason and not enough evidence to prove Alex Avila guilty. DEL RIO (ph): Two years ago, Avila, who was then 25, was accused by a former girlfriend of molesting her daughter and her sister's daughter while he babysat the two 9-year-old girls. Samantha Runnion's mother has herself expressed outrage that the jury didn't believe the girls.
ERIN RUNNION, SAMANTHA RUNNION'S MOTHER: No, I blame every juror who let him go, every juror who sat on that trial and believed this man over those little girls. I will never understand.
DEL RIO (ph) (on-camera): Now, I'm sure you probably seen on the news that Samantha Runnion's mother says that she blames you jurors in that trial.
"JUROR 9": I have children. These people had children. Never in our life would we imagine this man killing this girl. We all 12 walked out of there, 100 percent feeling we did justice. We let an innocent man go.
DEL RIO (ph): A lot of people say that it's difficult with child witnesses because they don't articulate well, they don't know how to express themselves particularly about sex. And so, it's hard for jurors to believe kids because they don't know how to express themselves.
"JUROR 9": We didn't believe the girls only for the fact that they weren't consistent on their story. We know that they were young and we understand that they're children. But the story was like -- did he touch you three times? Yes. Did he touch you five times? Yes. Did he touch you 50 times? Yes. Everything was yes, yes, yes.
DEL RIO (ph): Do you feel that you jurors messed up? Do you feel you screwed up?
"JUROR 9": No, I feel -- I can't -- I can't sleep because of the fact of what he did. I can sleep because of the fact that I know there was nothing, nothing in this case to prosecute him. He was innocent in the case that we tried him on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Our affiliate reporter from KTLA, Patricia Del Rio (ph) doing that reporting. Thank you very much, Patricia. Avila, by the way, is being held without bail. His next hearing is scheduled for September 16.
When we come back, to my fellow men out there, and especially you single guys, get ready, the pressure's about to mount once again. A new study looks at why so many single men are putting off marriage or are afraid to commit altogether. We'll look at those findings with two experts just ahead.
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BLITZER: And, now, the top five reasons why men are putting off getting married. They can get sex without marriage. They can get the benefits of marriage just by living with a woman. If they don't get married, they won't get divorced. They want to put off having children. And the number five reason why men put off getting married, they have to change too much.
While that may sound a little bit like a late-night TV comedy routine, but it's straight from a Rutgers University survey, a very serious survey, designed to determine why men are now waiting to an average age of 27 to tie the knot. Joining us now to discuss the survey are two experts, psychologist Laura Berman and urologist Jennifer Berman. They are sisters and they're the hosts of "Berman and Berman: For Women Only," on the Discovery Health Channel. They're in our Los Angeles bureau.
It's called "For Women Only," but I have to admit, I watch your program all the time and learn a great deal about women. Let's talk a little bit, first of all, Laura, about this subject, this Rutgers University survey. What is going on?
LAURA BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN: FOR WOMEN ONLY": I don't think it's anything new. I think for both men and women, we know that people -- first of all, this generation of men and women have come -- 50 percent of them or more have come from families of divorce, and they take marriage much more seriously.
And women don't have to marry for financial reasons and men don't have to marry for sexual reasons, perhaps. And people are waiting longer to get married. They're waiting for their soul mates. They're not settling. And I think, for many men, they want to be established. They want to be mature. They want to be ready to take on the responsibilities of children before they settle down and make that kind of commitment.
BLITZER: What's your sense, Jennifer? Is it the same as your sister or do you often disagree?
DR. JENNIFER BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN: FOR WOMEN ONLY": We often disagree, but I'll agree on that. And I agree with especially with it. We shouldn't put all the onus on men. Women, too, are choosing to get married later. They're choosing to have their careers. They're choosing to be financially stable. They're choosing to have sort of a life of their own before they settle down either. So yes, men are waiting until later, but also, women are choosing to do the same.
L. BERMAN: Fortunately, for men, they have the advantage that they are reproductively viable much later in life than women are. So men do have the luxury of being able to avoid the biological clock. So that's one thing working in their favor.
BLITZER: So is that still a major pressure on women, that biological clock?
L. BERMAN: Absolutely, and there have been recent studies that have looked at women's fertility and that, you know, starting at -- and when is it, 27? J. BERMAN: Around the age of 27, fertility has declined. So there's not -- you know, obviously, there's pressure to find a mate but now, women are able to have children without necessarily having a husband or a partner even. So with new reproductive technology, we're able to have our babies without those guys.
L. BERMAN: But the nice -- the nice thing is that we -- none of us have the same social pressure that we had before to get married so young. Men are not under the social pressure to get married at a young age and in essence, neither are women.
BLITZER: Jennifer, one of the top reasons that men are waiting is they say they can get sex without having to get married. Does that suggest to you that a woman who wants to get married should avoid having sex with the man she loves?
J. BERMAN: It's funny you ask that because we had that conversation in the ride coming over here. I don't think -- I think it's being true to yourself and if you have sex -- I mean you can have sex whether you're married or not. So I don't think it's necessarily to avoid sex. You need to do what's right for you and what's right for your relationship.
And it's the same for women. Women can have sex without being married either. So I don't think it's going to be -- we're going to be seeing women all of a sudden abstaining from sex to land a husband.
L. BERMAN: It's dangerous game to have women start thinking about how to manipulate their partners in order to convince them to marry them. And withholding sex, you know, when you don't want to actually be withholding it in order to engage your man in the idea of marrying you, is not necessarily a good idea.
BLITZER: Well, let me elaborate on that. Why is it so dangerous to do that?
L. BERMAN: Because you're -- it's actually a kind of manipulation. I mean it goes back to the adage of '50s, you know, what our fathers used tell us -- they won't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free. And I think that this only serves to repress women and their feelings about their sexuality. And ideally, a couple should be fostering -- I'm not advocating that every couple should have sex before marriage. It's certainly a personal decision. But I think that women and men should be able to advocate for their sexual needs and focus on positive and natural and open communications with their partners, whether it be about having sex, but really, it's about what it -- the intentions are. And if a man is not interested in being with a woman because he can have -- you know or marrying that woman because he can have sex with her, then maybe he's not the right man for that woman to be with.
BLITZER: And Jennifer, as you know the number two reason was that a lot of men believe they can have the benefits of living with a woman without necessarily having to marry her.
J. BERMAN: And I will agree with you on that. That is one area, and I guess, based on my own personal experience as well, as a youth, that where women should think very seriously before living with anybody -- I mean certainly with a man because that does -- will definitely delay decisions towards getting married.
L. BERMAN: Not only does it delay it, but there have been several studies that demonstrate that couples, even after living together successfully for several years, will often have tremendous trouble adjusting to the idea of being married. That's a different feeling than when they were living together. And the divorce rate is actually quite high in couples that have lived together.
J. BERMAN: And it's like getting divorced...
BLITZER: All right, we got to leave it right there. Unfortunate, we got to leave it right there. "Berman & Berman," Jennifer and Laura, did I tell you guys I love your show.
L. BERMAN: Thank you.
J. BERMAN: Thanks so much. We love you too.
BLITZER: I've learned a lot about women. Thank you very much.
Here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web "Question of The Day" is this -- are men waiting too long to get married? Go to my Web page, CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote and while you're there, send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. I think I'm going to be getting a lot of comments on this subject. Also, by the way, you can read my daily on-line column there at CNN.com/Wolf.
Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins right at the top of the hour.
Lou, any follow-up today on this whole issue of why men are waiting so long?
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, I am going to defer to your expertise on this every time. I think I'll stay out of this one if I may. Coming up tonight, at the top of the hour, the deadline for CEOs to certify their results has come and gone. We'll tell you about which companies did not swear by their numbers. Former SEC chairman, Richard Breeden is our guest.
A stunning turnaround to tell you about on Wall Street today. The Dow recovered from a triple digit loss to finish with a triple digit gain. We'll have complete coverage of the market. Jan Hopkins will be here.
Saddam Hussein is suspected of moving germ warfare materials in Iraq. We'll have a report for you from the Pentagon. And I'll be joined by CNN military analyst and "MONEYLINE" contributor, General David Grange. All of that and a great deal more coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Lou, I won't be expecting a follow-up in your program but I'll be watching it anyhow. When we come back, the results of our web "Question of The Day." Are men waiting too long to get married? You still have time. Go to the Web site and vote.
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BLITZER: Take a look at how you're weighing in on our web "Question of The Day." Are men waiting too long to get married? Look at this -- 27 percent of you so far say, "yes," 73 percent of you say, "no." I think a lot of men are answering that question so far. Remember, we'll keep that question up on my Web page for a while. This is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. I'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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