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American Morning

Interview with T.J. Bonner, Jim Tilmon

Aired August 16, 2002 - 07:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now onto a report that a key piece of the plan to keep U.S. skies safe after 9/11 is in trouble. Armed federal sky marshals are a big part of the new homeland security plan. Some 6,000 have been hired since 9/11, but according to a report in "USA Today," undercover air marshals are being poorly trained and poorly treated, conditions that some say could threaten the safety of the flying public.
To talk about it from Washington, we have T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, and in Phoenix, aviation consultant, Jim Tilmon.

Gentlemen, good morning, thanks for joining us.

T.J. BONNER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Good morning.

JIM TILMON, AVIATION CONSULTANT: Good morning.

KAGAN: There is no question that this program has had a huge growth spurt since 9/11, but the question is: Is it growing pains or true problems?

And, T.J., we're going to start with you.

BONNER: No doubt, it's true problems out there. The employees are being required to work long hours and being underpaid for those hours. They are working under some ridiculous conditions, being required to wear business attire on all flights. It makes them stick out like a sore thumb. It's a danger to them and to the public.

KAGAN: We want to get to some of those specific issues in a moment. But, Jim, first, I want to go ahead and bring you in here.

Do you think the program is working well, bringing in well- qualified people, and then making them among the best-trained law enforcement officers out there?

TILMON: As a matter of fact, some of the best people that we're getting are out of the Border Patrol, and they are coming, as I understand, from all of the other kinds of agencies and some of the finest law enforcement types that our country has ever known.

And when I think in terms of the long hours, guess what? Just about everybody in this country is working long hours. A lot of Americans are working two jobs. And these people are being paid, I believe, something in the neighborhood of $55,000 a year. And these people are also signed onto what I consider to be the SWAT force of aviation. They're not likely to be complaining about the fact that they have long hours. They signed on for that, and I'm proud of it.

KAGAN: Let's go ahead and look at some of these specific complaints that are mentioned in the "USA Today" article. First of all, the training level, just to get these people in the system and up and working much lower standards, especially much lower shooting standards. Is that true, Jim?

TILMON: No. You know, I visited that training. I have witnessed it first-hand. And I was really impressed.

I was a critic of all of this, of the administration before then, but I was very impressed with the quality of the training. Their shooting standards are higher than the Secret Service or the FBI. They have not deteriorated since they started the program. I'm very happy with what I have been able to see.

KAGAN: T.J., what are you hearing from your people?

BONNER: We have about 700 agents, who have gone over to the air marshal's program. And I agree, they are real good agents, the best. What I'm hearing, though, is that the training -- initially, everybody failed that firearms training, so they lowered the standard. Instead of giving people more opportunities to train, they lowered the standard.

KAGAN: Which one is it, Jim? Is the standard lower, or is it the same as it has been even before 9/11?

TILMON: It depends on who is keeping score. From my sources, the standards are as high as they ever have been. They haven't changed since the beginning of the program. They may have moved some of the training back into the program a little deeper than before, but they haven't really lowered the standards. The threat hasn't lowered, so we can't lower standards.

KAGAN: Let's move onto another issue, this issue of the dress code. What exactly is the dress code? How do the marshals have to dress? And in fact, does that make them a big, red flag for a potential terrorist who could be on board a plane, look over here, I'm an air marshal?

TILMON: Well, I've got to tell you, I'm familiar with that, too, and I can say to you that they have two or three issues involved here.

One, you don't want to have people dressed in a way that's not commensurate with the way other passengers are dressed. You don't want someone going into the Caribbean that's dressed like they're going into the Yukon. So the dress code is flexible, and the local managers, I am told, have the authority to make that dress code what they need it to be for the present situation.

Also, you want to make sure that you have these people dressed in such a fashion that they're going to be a recognizable presence in the event that they have to take charge in an airplane. You don't want somebody looking like an undercover drug agent that's going to jump up and say, hi, I'm the police, do what I tell you.

KAGAN: No, but you don't want them to be too recognizable to any terrorists either.

T.J., what are you hearing about the dress code?

BONNER: We're hearing that it's inappropriate. They're requiring people to wear business suits in places like Orlando, Florida, where everyone else is dressed in shorts, and that's simply not working. It identifies these air marshals as air marshals. They may as well be wearing a big neon sign that says, "U.S. Air Marshal."

KAGAN: All right, we have two issues here, obviously. You have the quality of the work for the air marshals, but you also have, I think most importantly, the protection and the safety of the public.

Is there room for improvement on both? And we have about 30 seconds left.

T.J., I'll let you go first.

BONNER: There is definitely room for improvement. These employees need to be given a voice in their work. They are terrified. They have been told that if they talk to the media, if they talk to Congress, they'll be fired and they'll be prosecuted. Terrorized employees cannot provide protection against terrorism. That's the bottom line.

KAGAN: Jim, they are not allowed to unionize. Should there be a better way that they can speak up with complaints about how the system is working or not working?

TILMON: My understanding is, first of all, they can.

I want to correct something. I've got to tell you that I have talked with any number of airline people -- pilots, administrators, flight attendants -- and they are very proud of the program. They say that these people come on board are very professional, and they say they would never have known that they were an air marshal if they hadn't been told.

KAGAN: Jim Tilmon, T.J. Bonner, gentlemen, thank you for the discussion -- appreciate your input.

BONNER: Thank you.

TILMON: Thank you.

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