CNN LARRY KING WEEKEND
Encore Presentation: Interview With Pamela Anderson
Aired August 18, 2002 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exclusive, Pamela Anderson, "Playboy" cover girl, red hot tabloid queen, infected with a potentially deadly disease, involved in a child custody battle, abuse survivor, life after Tommy Lee. And she's bared all and now she's going to tell all. We'll take your calls. She's Pamela Anderson, exclusive tonight on LARRY KING LIVE.
We are joined here in studio by Pamela Anderson and Jane Pratt. Jane is the editor-in-chief of "Jane" magazine. Prior to launching "Jane," she also hosted TV talk shows on Fox and Lifetime. When she was only 24 years old, she became the founding editor of "Sassy," a magazine for teenaged girls. And is -- here is "Jane," an issue with Pamela on the cover. Here is Pamela on the cover of "FHM." What was that, FHM?
PAMELA ANDERSON, ACTRESS: The many personalities of Pamela.
JANE PRATT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "JANE": Exactly.
KING: How come I've never heard of "FHM?" It's the -- "FHM," fastest growing world's mens' mag -- what is she going to do for "Jane?"
PRATT: She's writing a monthly column called "Pam, Honestly," which she came up with. I love that. I love the title.
KING: Is "Jane" named after you?
PRATT: Yes, it is.
KING: You named the magazine after yourself?
PRATT: Yes, I know. It sounds like I'm an egomaniac.
KING: Like Oprah and Rosie.
PRATT: Right, why not?
ANDERSON: Because she's on the cover all the time.
KING: Why are going to do that? Why are you going to do this?
PRATT: I'm not on the cover. She's on the cover.
ANDERSON: Well, I just thought, you know, I really -- it kind of came out of I was upset with her a little bit about this article came out, the last one that I did for her. And so we were e-mailing each other back and forth and she liked what we were saying. And it just -- I said, you know what? I said -- she goes, what can I do to rectify this, we love you, you know, everyone loves you, my readers love you. And I said, you know what, I want my own column. I don't want to be taken out of context anymore. I want to be able...
KING: What did they write about you that ticked you off?
ANDERSON: Well, it just came off very harsh. It came off very harsh. It wasn't something -- I didn't really want to be -- it was about some of the custody things that were going on at the time.
KING: Before we get to a lot of that, so you didn't like the way of the tone.
ANDERSON: I didn't like the way -- the tone didn't, it wasn't...
KING: So, in your column -- is it your column? Are you answering letters?
PRATT: She writes.
KING: Let her tell me.
ANDERSON: It's rambling. I'm rambling. It's my own words, and it's just -- we're talking about different subjects and I'm just drawing from experience and personal history.
KING: A new phase of your life?
ANDERSON: I think so. This is definitely a new phase of my life. I'm going through a good, healthy transition.
KING: Strictly her, not edited?
PRATT: Strictly her. She won't let me edit a word.
ANDERSON: They haven't edited me yet. They've just given me a little, you know...
PRATT: She's tough that way.
ANDERSON: I'm a columnist.
KING: Where did you -- before we get into a whole bunch of issues -- where did you come from? I mean, was it "Baywatch?"
ANDERSON: Fendover (ph) Island, no...
KING: No, no, no, I mean, how did we all get to know you?
ANDERSON: Well, I was on "Home Improvement." I was the Tool Time girl on "Home Improvement." Then I had to make a big career decision and I moved to "Baywatch." And then that's basically my... KING: Was it "Baywatch" that did it?
ANDERSON: I think "Baywatch" was, you know, in 170 countries worldwide. I didn't even know that there were that many countries. But it was very famous all over the world, and that's what kind of my international, you know, thing kind of went from there.
KING: It took off.
ANDERSON: It took off, yes.
KING: Were you a fan of that show?
PRATT: You know, well, more than that, I'm a fan of hers because one of the things that I love about her is that she's really self- made. I mean, when you ask where she came from, you know, she came from nothing and she created her own persona, her own image, and she's made herself very successful.
KING: You were your own shtick, in a sense. I mean that complimentary, right?
KING: You decided you wanted to be something.
ANDERSON: Yes, well, I don't know if I really decided I wanted to be something. I just knew that I had to put myself in a place where I was going...
KING: Did you want to be an actress?
ANDERSON: No, no, and I still don't. And I'm not an actress. I don't think I am an actress. I think I've created a brand and a business.
KING: What do you want to be when you grow up, Pam?
ANDERSON: I just keep saying I want to grow up and be a stripper. But that's probably not very good. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Stripperella, and we'll get into that. That's a comic book character that I'm going to play.
KING: You have a business though, right?
ANDERSON: Yes. I have a business that I've -- just exploiting a brand that I've created worldwide.
KING: I see. And that's your prime interest?
ANDERSON: And that is my prime interest, besides my obviously dating Bob.
(CROSSTALK) KING: And we're going to get to motherhood. You never wanted to be an actress?
ANDERSON: No, I didn't.
KING: So the "Baywatch" thing was for laughs?
ANDERSON: Well, you know, it was just fell into my lap, really. And I got -- it was a lot of hard work, you know, and once I got into it, I liked really, you know, building a character and a persona. And I started having fun with it and I starting realized this is really a business and the joke isn't on me anymore. The joke is kind of, ha- ha, on you. And that's how "VIP," you know, came about, just poking fun at the image.
KING: How long were you on that show?
ANDERSON: I did five seasons of "Baywatch" and I did four seasons of "VIP." I've been around a while.
KING: How, by the way, is David Hasslehoff?
ANDERSON: I don't know. I haven't spoken to him, but I hope he's doing OK. I hope he's doing good.
KING: Did you know he had a problem? You know, he checked into a rehab...
ANDERSON: No, I did not know. I wouldn't know. You know, you just don't know somebody until you really know them...
KING: Were you shocked when you learned it?
ANDERSON: Well, yes. You know, this business, a lot of people, you know, get into all sorts of things and they all need help. And it just -- you know, I'm happy for him that he's chosen to get help.
KING: Did you like working with him?
ANDERSON: Yes. He's a very interesting character...
KING: You didn't have any problems?
ANDERSON: No, no problems. He taught me a lot. He said, you know, the next show that you have, you should definitely own part of because you've built your name here and everything.
KING: Now, let's run through some things. Jane Pratt is the editor-in-chief of "Jane" magazine, and Pam Anderson, when does her column start?
PRATT: Well, it actually starts in the issue that's out right now, the August issue, is her first column.
KING: It's out now, her first column?
ANDERSON: First column.
PRATT: Yes. It's advice on pregnancy, actually.
ANDERSON: Because she's six months pregnant.
PRATT: I'm six months pregnant.
KING: You're pregnant?
ANDERSON: I'm not.
KING: Oh, no.
PRATT: No. Don't start that rumor.
KING: Hold it. Well, a story got started when rocker Steve Tyler of Aerosmith -- and your boyfriend Kid Rock is with them, right -- he says that he knows Pamela Anderson is going to be with Kid Rock because she's pregnant. Where did he get...
ANDERSON: Two unreliable sources.
KING: Where did he get that idea?
ANDERSON: I have no idea. I don't know how that came about.
KING: Absolutely not true?
ANDERSON: Absolutely not true. Absolutely not true.
KING: Did you call Steve Tyler when this appeared?
ANDERSON: I don't have his number, no.
KING: But isn't your boyfriend with him?
ANDERSON: Yes. Well, no, he talked to him about it. I don't even know what happened, why that came out, if that was something he -- did he say that directly? I thought it was taken out of context. I wasn't quite sure how that came out.
KING: How do you take that out of context?
ANDERSON: Well, did he say, maybe she'll be pregnant in the future? I don't know how it came about, but, no, I'm not pregnant.
KING: Would you like to be pregnant with Kid Rock's kid?
ANDERSON: Well, I'd like to have a little girl one day. Yes, I would like to have a little girl one day. KING: You have two little boys?
ANDERSON: But you know what I need to do is I need to -- right now, I'm battling with the hepatitis C and I want to resolve that and overcome that, and then I want to have a baby.
KING: How serious is it with the Kid?
ANDERSON: The Kid Rock?
ANDERSON: It's -- I think, you know what, I could say right now we're in the trenches, right. We're just working on things.
KING: You care for each other a lot?
ANDERSON: Oh, yes. We love each other very much. But it's a difficult life, a difficult life. And I want what's best for my kids. And he has a son.
KING: Did your first experience, maybe, with Tommy Lee scare you off others?
ANDERSON: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm still scared to death. Are you kidding? And I need to resolve a lot of issues with that, I think, before I can really move on and have another serious commitment.
KING: Why do you think, Pamela, you were -- tend to be and have been victimized?
KING: Yes, sure you have.
ANDERSON: Well, you know, I grew up in a very -- in an alcoholic home and there was violence in my household. And I think it's just my model of a relationship. And when I've gotten into any kind of relationships, it just seems to -- you recreate the pattern even though you say you're never, ever going to do that, you're never going to have the same relationship.
My poor mom is -- she's still with my father. My father is a great grandfather. He's a wonderful grandfather, but he's a terrible husband. And my mom still suffers because she's -- it is verbal abuse. It used to be physical abuse. And it just -- and she just -- you know, it's just sad to see.
KING: So you outgrew that into...
ANDERSON: I have outgrown it.
KING: I know. You came from that.
ANDERSON: I came from that and I've just somehow been recreating that in my life, but to a lesser degree. I think I'm doing better. I think there are issues obviously I need to resolve on myself before I can, you know, move into a real healthy...
PRATT: It is not that unusual either. It's not like, you know, why her? It is something like one in five women gets into an abusive relationship. So, actually, she represents a lot of women out there. And I think that's one thing that they like about her is that she's out there talking about an issue that they...
KING: How many relationships have you been in, would you say, where you have been abused?
ANDERSON: Well, one -- well, I mean, a couple. My first relationship was very violent.
KING: Why don't -- men don't understand this, so I'm going to ask it simply. The first time you're struck, why aren't you gone?
ANDERSON: Well, I think the first thing you lose in an abusive relationship is your self-worth. And I think it is really difficult to leave a relationship when you feel like nothing and you've already been so belittled, because it starts with verbal abuse. It starts with really demeaning somebody. And by the time it gets to physical abuse, you really have no strength to leave. You feel like this is the only person that's going to be with you because they keep telling you that, you're ugly, you're not -- you're stupid. You're all these different things.
KING: Yes, but you can't look in the mirror and believe that?
ANDERSON: Yes, you can. Of course you can.
KING: You can?
ANDERSON: The only person you want to be admired by really is the person that you're in love with. I mean, you want admiration from other people, but, you know, it is so important and so destructive when you lose your self-esteem.
KING: How about knowing you're going to have physical pain? I mean...
ANDERSON: Well, I mean, I eventually have gotten out of it. I have gotten out of it.
KING: But it's not easy.
ANDERSON: It's not easy. No. The hardest thing I ever had to do was go through went I went through.
PRATT: And the children. Wow.
ANDERSON: With the children, and what gave me the strength, really, is my children. My children is...
KING: We'll get to that. We'll be right back. Pam Anderson is not with child. Jane Pratt is, in case you wondered. Someone on this show is with child.
ANDERSON: It's not my child.
KING: That could be history. We'll be right back. We'll be taking your calls later. And Pam Anderson is now writing and she'll be in every issue of "Jane." Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Baywatch")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Are you headed for Catalina?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Crystal Cove; we're going to do some diving.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: That's a great spot. The water's warm and clear. It's really great.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: And we're taking our mid-patrol break in Catalina, so maybe we can talk to you.
ANDERSON: No, not this weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Well, maybe some other time?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Yes, we work at Baywatch.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: We know it.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: See you later.
ANDERSON: Great time for a women-only weekend?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I know, I know.
ANDERSON: Well, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That's from "Baywatch."
This is the issue, by the way, of "Jane" in which Pamela Anderson's first column appears. This is the August issue with Lara Flynn Boyle on the cover.
Very nice cover person.
PRATT: Thank you.
KING: The magazine is geared to people 18 to 34. Pam is now 35, so... ANDERSON: So I'm out.
KING: You're out of the magazine.
KING: First one to break it to you that you're out.
ANDERSON: I'm out. Thanks.
KING: OK: hepatitis C, when were you diagnosed, how do you deal with it?
ANDERSON: How do you deal with it? Well, when I first was diagnosed, I thought, obviously, I was dying. When I first -- well, actually, my doctor told me, you know this little glitch in your bloodwork? You have hepatitis C. And I said, OK, how do I get rid of it? And he said, you can't.
KING: How long ago was this?
ANDERSON: Just over a year ago.
KING: What symptoms did you have?
ANDERSON: I didn't really have any symptoms. That's the whole problem. You know, people don't have...
KING: It was just a checkup?
ANDERSON: Yes, it was just a checkup, the regular checkup. And I had all my bloodwork done. It was, you know, for a movie for something -- some kind of -- something. And you had to get checkups when you do movies for insurance reasons. And that's, I think, how it came about.
And then I started reading about it and realized that there's no cure and that, you know, there's liver transplants, liver cancer, psoriasis, all this kind of stuff going on and it just scared me. I thought -- you start facing your own mortality, you start realizing that you might die. Now I realize that there's actually a cure for it and...
KING: Which is?
ANDERSON: Interferon with these other...
KING: That's a tough drug, though -- side effects.
ANDERSON: There's lots of side effects. And I'm thinking of doing it in December. It's going to be a year of basically having the flu. Your hair falls out. It's a little kind of chemotherapy kind of -- throwing up.
KING: You got to do it though.
ANDERSON: ... I want to do it for my kids, because I don't want to die, basically.
But I did have a liver biopsy. And a liver is rated from zero to four. Four is cirrhosis, cancer, you know, and liver transplant. My liver is -- and a healthy liver is zero. So I'm a one.
And they said it's a miracle that my liver is as healthy as it is. And they said keep doing what you're doing, you're taking good care of yourself. And I'm vegetarian. I look after myself. I don't drink that much. And definitely now my doctor said, no drinking at all, as your doctor; but as your friend, you can have a glass of red wine every once in a while.
KING: Do you know what caused it?
ANDERSON: I do know what caused it. I know that when my doctor told me that when I was first married that we had a full physical -- Tommy and I had a physical when we came back from Cancun after we were married. And he had told Tommy that he has hepatitis C, and he has to disclose this to me. You know, it's the only thing he should do.
KING: He never told you?
ANDERSON: And he never told me, even though he told the doctor that he did tell me.
Then the only thing I can think of is when we shared a needle getting a tattoo. And then when I came back from there, a while ago I talked to my doctor and my doctor said, well, you have this in your bloodwork, and you know how you got it.
And I said, no. And he goes, well, your husband didn't tell you that he has hepatitis C? And I said, no, he didn't tell me that. And he said, well, he told me that he told you that. So he felt like he could talk to me about it. And I said, no, he never said it. So he never told me.
So that's how he believed that I got hepatitis C.
KING: What are the chances of the children, now...
ANDERSON: They don't have it.
KING: That's checked already?
KING: And they won't get it?
ANDERSON: No, they can't get it unless they're infected by me. And that's why I have to...
KING: Has to be from the mother?
ANDERSON: Well, you know, blood-to-blood contact. If we were in an accident of any kind. I mean, I make sure that I have, you know, rubber gloves. I have everything...
KING: Did you confront Tommy Lee about why he did not tell you?
KING: And what did he say?
ANDERSON: I don't have it. He was in denial about it, even though my doctor tells me he does have it, and he has told people when we had our evaluation done, that he does have it. But it's just a public perception thing.
You know, I just want to be treated. He's in complete denial. I think there's many people out there...
KING: So he's not being treated?
ANDERSON: No, he will not admit that he even has it, hardly.
It's just, you have to be treated. And the reason you have to be treated, or the reason you should be tested if you think you fall into any of the categories, any of the reasons you can get it, is because we want to stop the spread of the disease, because there are simple things you can do: You don't share razors, you don't share toothbrushes, you don't share needles, obviously.
KING: Are you writing about this?
ANDERSON: Yes, we're writing about all this. And there are simple ways that you can not infect other people. And people that are living in denial about it or are not willing to get tested are spreading the disease. And it's just one in four -- one in 20 Americans have hepatitis C, that we know about.
KING: Where do you stand with him now? You're in court with Tommy Lee?
ANDERSON: We're not speaking.
KING: Is there a lawsuit? Are you divorced?
ANDERSON: We're divorced.
KING: Does he support his children?
ANDERSON: No, no. Well, he does a very, very small...
KING: Does he see them a lot?
ANDERSON: No, no. He hasn't called my house in over a year to talk to the kids. He doesn't...
PRATT: ... some question about whether he should see them at all or whether...
KING: Well, he's their father.
ANDERSON: Well, he is their father. And I believe that every child should know both biological parents. And I think it would be wonderful as a positive influence in their lives for him to be a part of it.
But they're scared of going over there. They don't want to go over there.
KING: They are?
ANDERSON: They've never had a relationship with their father since they were born. They've always been afraid of their father, and their father has had no contact, really, with them.
KING: How old are they?
ANDERSON: They're 4 and 6. And they love men. They love male attention. They...
KING: How do they get along with your boyfriend?
ANDERSON: They get along with him fine. They get along with him good. They like him.
We just went through this whole evaluation. It's going to kind of -- I think it's a good story to tell. And I know...
ANDERSON: ... it's a real personal issue. It's real personal. But since there's been so much confusion out there -- we've gone through -- we've gone through...
KING: You and he went through an evaluation?
ANDERSON: Almost a year with a court-appointed psychologist.
KING: What happens -- someone meets with both of you?
ANDERSON: They meet with both of us. They meet with every single person around us that has any impact on the children whatsoever, including a therapist, their doctor, people that they know, their teachers, everything. And I always wanted...
PRATT: They dropped in unannounced.
ANDERSON: Court officers drop in unannounced...
ANDERSON: Drop in on my house unannounced and...
KING: So they could have come any day you...
ANDERSON: Any day; any day. And for both of us.
KING: Leading to what purpose?
ANDERSON: Because they're trying to evaluate the safety and the state of minds of both parents. And the only way that I can be...
KING: Is this a custody matter, or...
ANDERSON: Yes -- well, no, there's a bunch of people involved. There's child services involved. There's this custody situation, too.
But there are so many things. Brandy (ph) came home with a black eye. There were many things that came back that I was really frightened of. And then when they opened up to the therapist, the therapist had to call child services, then all these things started happening.
KING: He hit his children?
ANDERSON: That's what Brandon said.
KING: Do you believe him?
ANDERSON: I believe there's a lot of things that are going on up at the house that are inappropriate, and that it really concerned me. And I went to court, and I tried to get a monitor in place. And I felt to my bone -- my intuition as a mother, I mean, I just felt so strong that something was going on wrong up there.
And they told me there wasn't enough physical evidence of them being hurt, and that they couldn't place a monitor.
Then child services got involved. And once they came to my house and they talked to the kids -- this was like 7:00 at night until midnight they interviewed my children, my children told them the most horrendous things that they didn't even tell me, that they called the sheriff's department and the called -- the children were under protective custody because of things that they were saying about what was going on.
PRATT: I read this stuff, and it's horrible. It's horrible.
KING: You read all this?
PRATT: I read it. We can't talk about all the details of it obviously because... ANDERSON: But I just want people to know that I have all the resources in the world. I have spent half a million dollars in protecting my children.
ANDERSON: They don't have money and they don't have -- they have these abusive people that are in their lives. And I feel like I was abused in a relationship, and abused, beyond the relationship, through my kids and now through the court system.
And this evaluator came to the conclusion after eight months of studying, that the kids should not be in Tommy's care without a monitor, and that he has to prove to a court that he is capable of parenting the kids and being safe.
And all these different things, they agree with everything I said. So this is the person that's going to testify on my behalf, on the kids' behalf. He's not even -- he was a court-appointed person.
KING: But he doesn't see them anyway, right?
ANDERSON: He doesn't see them anyway. He's seen them like 25 hours in the last four months.
KING: We'll be right back with Pamela Anderson and Jane Pratt, the editor-in-chief of "Jane" magazine. We hope we helping a lot of people with this. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Baywatch")
DAVID HASSELHOFF, ACTOR: You don't have to be intimidated.
ANDERSON: Don't worry. I'll testify.
HASSELHOFF: I mean, warming up here all by yourself, away from those younger, stronger swimmers whose only goal in life is to beat you out of a spot.
ANDERSON: They don't intimidate me.
HASSELHOFF: Good. Experience is the most important thing. Besides, you only have to finish in the top 20 to requalify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: When I found that I was going to be published in "Playboy," I didn't know if I should do it or not. I was a little concerned. I talked to my parents and I talked to my friends and I talked to people in the entertainment business and a lot of people that I knew.
And everyone just said, go for it. You know, you only live once. And do it. And my mom said, if I had the body, I'd do it, Pamela, so go for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PRATT: She does have the body.
KING: Are you glad you did that?
ANDERSON: I'm glad I've done everything. Yes.
KING: Before we get back to hepatitis, and back Tommy and troubles, are there -- is there a downside? I don't know how to put this -- to being well endowed?
PRATT: Yes, tell us about being well endowed. I'd like to know, too.
KING: Is there any downside to it? In other words, do you feel that people look at you because you're well endowed or that sometimes...
ANDERSON: Fine. Bring it on. I don't mind.
PRATT: She knows how to use it to her advantage, I think. She's too smart to be a victim because of it. She knows how to use it. Look what she -- it's gotten her a long way, right?
KING: Back to hepatitis -- they come in the door way before you.
ANDERSON: They do.
KING: Back to hepatitis C, do you worry about future children?
ANDERSON: Yes, I do, and that's why I want to make sure that I've, you know, I've taken care of -- I'm going to go through the treatment. I'm going to...
KING: Is she writing about this stuff...
ANDERSON: Yes, you know who I actually saw on your show was Naomi Judd. And I called Naomi and I talked to her, and she's a wonderful mentor for me, and she's been wonderful.
KING: She's some lady.
ANDERSON: She's a great lady. She's got a great heart, and she's been really helpful, and she's like, I can fight this now, and I'll win and I won't have it anymore, and then I'll think of other children. but I really do believe that it's not going to take me down. I'm too healthy.
PRATT: I got the most incredible letter, too, in response to something that Pamela wrote about hepatitis C in the magazine and having it. This girl wrote in and she said -- she said I have hepatitis C and having it. This girl wrote in and said, I have hepatitis C, and I'm so happy that Pam came out and said that she has it, because she said I felt like no one wanted to touch me, and I know people want to touch Pam Anderson, so it really has -- it's -- she's removing some of the stigma, which is the first, you know, getting rid of this disease, the first thing is that people need to open up about having it. That's the first way to stop the spread.
KING: So Tommy in not admitting is hurting himself?
ANDERSON: And hurting everybody else.
PRATT: ...a lot of people.
ANDERSON: I thought it made me more unobtainable, a little more dangerous, alluring, sexy. And then my friends said, no, that's not it. No, hepatitis...
KING: What is, as you see it, and you're a lay person, so you can't ask professionally, what is Tommy's problem? He's a talented guy...
ANDERSON: Alcoholism. His alcoholism, and I think it's just self-absorption.
KING: Or he gets this way when he drinks.
ANDERSON: Not just when he drinks. I think -- I think it's very difficult in this business. There's so many wonderful qualities about him, and I think he's such an incredible presence and he's got such incredible talent, and I want him to be a part of the kids' life, and I want him to get help in these areas, whatever they are, because I fell in love with him for a reason, and I still, I feel like I love him and I just wish him the best.
I just can't get over some of the things that have happened to my children and me.
KING: What do you think happens to you? I mean, why does he -- why did he hit you, do you think?
ANDERSON: He was jealous of the kids. He told me, that no, I'm third on the totem pole. And he actually -- he threw me and Dylan into a wall, and Dylan had a huge welt on his head at 7 weeks old, and what I get nervous about is that everything is always sealed, and you can't talk about this, and you can't talk about that.
But people can make up lies and they can talk about everything they want, when the truth is right in front of us.
KING: You're talking about it now.
ANDERSON: And I'm telling you now...
KING: Is this hard for you?
ANDERSON: Yes, because it's not like I'm trying to take him down at all. I want him to succeed more than anybody. I want his career to succeed. I want him to succeed as a father, and I want him to reach his true potential and full potential and just deal with his alcoholism.
KING: You want him to get better.
ANDERSON: I want him to get better and I want him to be in our lives.
KING: You do?
ANDERSON: I do, eventually, yes. And some people, some men are better parents when they're older. You know, I think they're going to be -- maybe he can be riding motorcycles with them when they're teenagers and they're doing this. And hopefully by then he's overcome some of these issues.
KING: Why did you marry so quickly?
ANDERSON: Well, that was a mistake to marry so quickly.
KING: Was it lust more than love?
ANDERSON: It was just -- I really always had such a fairy tale idea what a wedding would be, that I'd meet somebody, fall in love, and it would just be very romantic, and it would be love at first sight. And I had all these things that I wanted it to be. And he chased me down to Cancun, and I just thought it was romantic...
KING: He chased you right away?
ANDERSON: Yes, he followed me down there. He found out I was at a photo shoot down there and he followed me down. The first thing he said to me was I'm going to marry you. And I said what, no one's ever said that to me in a first sentence.
PRATT: That's such girl -- typical girl's fantasy, too.
ANDERSON: It was a fantasy.
KING: Is it really?
PRATT: It really is. I can't tell you how many women out there have that same fantasy.
KING: Your husband's history tonight, Jane. Did you know that?
PRATT: Yes, and we actually got to know each other -- we got to know each other first, but partly through people like Pam giving me advice about not doing that.
ANDERSON: I recommend getting to know each other first, and also waiting to have children, because the people that suffer in the end are your children. And I feel horrible that my children go through this, because I know they yearn and they ache for the attention of a man, you know, a consistent man in their life.
And I feel like those were my childish choices that I did. I always wanted to have kids. I mean, I wanted to have kids since I -- my cousins had kids when they were 14, 15. I mean, I come from a small town. And so this has always been my dream to have children.
I always knew how I'd raise they children. I knew I'd raise them in a very healthy way, I knew I'd have my kids at home with a midwife. I know everything about Rudolf Steiner and I wanted to raise my kids with a Waldorf education. I've had this image in my head, so when I got married I just wanted kids.
And -- I mean I'm sorry to my children that the parent that I picked was just not ready for something like that. So now I'm dealing as a single mother with my children who are thriving and doing wonderfully. They're great. But I'm sad that that's the path that I took to them.
KING: How are the kids dealing with this?
ANDERSON: Well, you know, they've never really had a relationship with their father, like I said. So they don't really -- if they're asked, they don't really say much, or anything it like that, but it's...
KING: Do they handle well?
ANDERSON: You know, they have not -- what they have not dealt with well was when the child services and dealing with being interviewed by sheriffs and hospitals. And, you know, the D.A. and everything else...
KING: Not a normal way to live.
ANDERSON: No. And they were scared. They didn't know what was going on.
PRATT: What they do have, though, is such a present mother. Like I think that's a side of Pam that people don't know about. I know because...
KING: Have you two become close friends?
PRATT: Well, we've... ANDERSON: Just over the last little while we've been talking a lot.
PRATT: We trust each other, you know, and I think we're on the same side of these issues.
KING: Are you based in New York? Are you in New York?
PRATT: I am based in New York, yes.
KING: So you're in L.A., right?
PRATT: Yes, more than anything we really just -- we -- yes, we're on the same side.
KING: Let me get a break.
We'll be right back with Pam Anderson, Jan (sic) Pratt. We'll be -- Jane Pratt -- Jan. And the magazine is "Jane." They should have named it Jan. Less letters, it would have cost less.
Tomorrow night, Dominick Dunne will be with us with his thoughts on lots of things criminal. And we'll be including your phone calls right after this.
ANDERSON: I liked the fat (ph) framing shot though, when I was...
KING: We were showing some shots of Pamela. By the way, you can still see "Baywatch" on the new TNN. So, "Baywatch" is on all the time on the new TNN. You don't like seeing yourself that way?
ANDERSON: "VIP," too, is going to be on TNN.
ANDERSON: No, I don't. I look way better than that in my mind. I don't like to see myself on TV.
KING: You really?
PRATT: She doesn't like the way she looks in my magazine either though. We argue about that.
KING: By the way, before we take some calls, what happened at that drowning at the birthday party at Tommy Lee's house, your son's birthday party?
ANDERSON: It was -- I had a birthday party for my son. And then I went to Detroit. I didn't realize Tommy was going to have a birthday party, too. He went...
KING: This is when he was still seeing a lot of them.
ANDERSON: He wasn't seeing a lot of them.
ANDERSON: This is after I started dating Bob. And so he felt...
KING: Bob who?
ANDERSON: Kid Rock.
PRATT: Real name, Bob.
ANDERSON: And so I think I kind of prompted him to see the kids a little more because there was that. And he had a birthday party for him, the first party he had ever thrown for the kids, for Brandon.
KING: At his house?
ANDERSON: At his house. And it is a very dangerous pool, which I never agreed with in the first place. It is so dangerous. And he had a party, and it was just -- it was terrible. There wasn't enough supervision. And the little boy, 4-years-old, one of Brandon's classmates, drowned in the pool. They saw the body being pulled out of the pool blue...
KING: The kids saw it?
ANDERSON: Yes, they saw it. And they -- they saw -- the firemen were there and they couldn't get all the water out of the baby. And that's what they're explaining to me, that, you know, Daniel's in heaven now and he's watching us and that his time on earth is over. And they know from me like even like rescuing animals and all this stuff, the thing that people do, they die and animals die. So, they have a perspective on it. But it was completely devastating to them and to everybody around. And I can't imagine...
KING: How did Tommy take it?
ANDERSON: I think he was very upset. I talked to him a day after. I was checking my e-mail messages and I saw Daniel died in the pool. And I thought it said Dylan died in the pool. And I just -- my whole body shut down and I just started shaking and I went into shock. And I had Bob, Kid Rock, e-mail me -- I mean, read the e-mail back to me. And he said, Daniel died in the pool. I didn't know who Daniel was. I called and they told me everything that happened. Then I saw the news and I saw everything, and it just -- the poor family.
KING: And what did Tommy say when you spoke to him?
ANDERSON: He was crying. He was upset. He was, you know, he just didn't know -- he was in such shock over it. And he could...
KING: How did Brandon take all of this?
ANDERSON: Brandon was -- he was devastated. He didn't understand why his little friend, you know, died. He couldn't understand. And Brandon is still -- he's like -- they ask about him all the time. They still ask. They ask all the time.
KING: How did Daniel's parents deal with this?
ANDERSON: I think they're going to suffer forever because of this, obviously. You know, I think that it was...
KING: Did you know them?
ANDERSON: No, I didn't know them. I didn't know them.
KING: Let's take some calls. And the August issue has Pam Anderson in it, the August issue of "Jane." She's now a regular.
Vancouver, Washington. Hello?
KING: Hi, go ahead.
CALLER: Hi, Pam.
CALLER: I wanted to ask what your advice would be for anybody that wanted to date a rock star. And by the way, I really love you.
ANDERSON: Oh, thank you. A rock star that's actually touring or a rock star, like in a local band?
KING: OK, any rock star. Big difference if they're touring?
ANDERSON: Well, they're just never home, unless you like that. So there are ups and downs.
PRATT: That could be good.
ANDERSON: It's good and bad. It depends. You know, like everyone is different. You can't really lump them all together. But it is a hard life. It's a hard life. It's probably full of...
KING: For the person on the outside.
ANDERSON: Yes. It is hard. It's hard to date anybody in this business.
KING: Do you tend to be attracted to musicians?
PRATT: It's her Achilles' heel. You know, it's her weakness.
ANDERSON: I have my rock star fetish. Oh, that's a good picture of Bob. He's going to love that. Well, you know, Bob is a wonderful, talented man. And it's exciting and it's wonderful to be with someone who is really talented and has their own life. And a lot of times when...
KING: But your first relationship turned sour. Have you had other musicians in your life, too?
ANDERSON: Have I?
KING: You don't remember.
ANDERSON: I don't remember. Not really. Not really.
KING: Because you really made it when you don't even remember...
ANDERSON: I don't remember, no.
KING: Aliso Viejo, California. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, hello. Hi, Pam.
CALLER: My husband has hepatitis C as well. And we've decided to fight back by starting a new foundation to create awareness and lobby for better regulation. And we're wondering if you've ever considered using your celebrity to maybe be a spokesperson for any organization working on behalf of the cause.
ANDERSON: Well, that's what I'm doing right now. I actually just did some PSAs, some public service announcements yesterday for the Liver Foundation. I'm going to be having kind of like a love ride, a motorcycle ride, to get funding and raise awareness again. But that's what I'm doing. That's what -- the reason that we came out with that I have hepatitis C is because that's what I want to be. I'm the hepatitis C poster girl.
PRATT: We were going to come out with shirts that said Liveracci (ph) or...
ANDERSON: Liveracci, or liver let die.
PRATT: Liver let die.
KING: Why -- the Interferon starts when?
ANDERSON: I think I'm going to start in December. I think I'm going to start...
KING: Why not tomorrow?
ANDERSON: Well, right now, I mean, I'm at home with my kids, and I'm just me. I don't have a nanny. I don't have any help in my home. And I like to just be hands-on with my kids. And this is going to be a real blow. I need to really set up my life so I have help and, you know, when they're back in school, it's over the summer. And I just want to figure out a way to make it easy on everybody. But I have to -- it takes planning. It takes planning.
KING: What kind of products do you have -- your living then now is off of products, right?
ANDERSON: Pardon me?
KING: You have products in your name or something? You have a business...
PRATT: Products starting to work on...
ANDERSON: I'm starting to do a business. Oh, these sunglasses, see. These are part of my line. That's why I wore them. I wasn't going to wear them the whole interview. But...
KING: They're nice. Where are they sold?
ANDERSON: They're not sold yet. We're going to launch them in Paris in September. And we're going to do all the shows. They're going to have diamonds in them. It's very high-end, really beautiful, very nice. You want to try these on? They're very light.
PRATT: They look good on everybody it seems like.
ANDERSON: Yes, they look great. Oh, they're great.
PRATT: Oh, that's cool.
ANDERSON: Those are great. Those are good.
KING: Is it me?
PRATT: You should stick with them.
KING: Now if only I could see, it would be worth wonders.
We'll be right back. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Barb Wire")
ANDERSON: A girl's got to do what a girl's got to do. And in this world, you got to use everything you got.
Hey, handsome. Want some company?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You a cop?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: See a badge?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Are you embarrassed by that movie?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I just cannot -- I can't watch myself. I just can't. I didn't realize...
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Because I'm not an actress.
KING: Then you're honest to say it.
By the way, there is -- if you want information and a free test of hepatitis, whether you might have it, call 1-888-4HEPUSA. That's 1-888-4HEP -- H-E-P -- USA. Pamela is involved with that group, right?
And in your divorce, you gave Tommy Lee everything?
ANDERSON: He got the house. He got everything, yes. He got everything.
PRATT: You got out.
ANDERSON: I just wanted to be home with my children is what I wanted to do.
KING: Surrey, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: First, I'd like to say that I think you're a beautiful woman inside and out.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
CALLER: Pardon me?
ANDERSON: Thank you.
KING: Go ahead. What's the question?
CALLER: My question is, now that you're 35, have you given any thought to when you might sort of tone down your sexy public image and maybe be a little more conservative?
ANDERSON: Look at me now.
PRATT: This is au naturel.
ANDERSON: I feel very vulnerable. I have no eyelashes on and my hair's back.
PRATT: I think she looks better this way. I try to tell her. ANDERSON: But no, I think that you just -- it's whatever you feel comfortable with. I love the whole, you know, sex kitten image. And I think there's just more to a woman than just that, too.
KING: But you like playing to that?
ANDERSON: I think everything; just the whole package.
PRATT: And you can age and still be really sexy. You can be a sex kitten, you know, at 80, if you want to be.
ANDERSON: That's right.
ANDERSON: Like my auntie Vy (ph).
KING: Those teeth, that's yours, right? No caps, no nothing?
ANDERSON: No caps no, no braces.
KING: No braces. They're amazing teeth.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
KING: Toronto, Canada, hello?
CALLER: Oh, hi Larry.
KING: Hi, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, hi. I just want to first of all say you look fantastic in Pam's glasses there.
KING: Thank you. If I could only see, yes.
CALLER: And also -- and Pam, from one Canadian to another I just want to say hi.
CALLER: Now, listen, I think that you're fantastic, just like the other caller said. And I think that you're beautiful very naturally.
My question to you is, you've got two fantastic, gorgeous little boys. I just -- I want to know, why don't you just take a little bit of a break and enjoy the two boys and enjoy a little bit of freedom?
ANDERSON: That's what I'm doing right now. I've actually canceled "VIP." I didn't want to commit to another long series of, you know, working with another -- I just wanted to -- I can't be -- I didn't want to be on television or doing film. That's too many hours away from my kids.
So that's what I'm doing right now.
PRATT: That's why she likes being a columnist for "Jane," because she can do it at home when her kids are there.
KING: Is it -- you're going to do a "Baywatch" reunion?
ANDERSON: I'm going to do a little cameo in a "Baywatch" reunion. You have to.
KING: Is it a widescreen movie for the theaters?
ANDERSON: I think it's just Fox. I think it's a TV movie. But they're going to get all the characters together. It's going to be a fun little thing, and...
KING: What's going to happen to you? You're going to go running down the beach?
ANDERSON: In slow motion. It takes a long time to learn how to do that.
KING: Was that a fun show to do?
ANDERSON: Yes, it was all fun. Everything's been fun that I've done.
KING: Did you like being around other beautiful women, well endowed, as well?
KING: That was fun?
PRATT: I don't know that she thought of it that way. That's sort of where your perspective...
KING: No, no, no, I'm not doing my perspective.
PRATT: I know, I know. I just like the questions...
ANDERSON: I love beautiful women. I love...
KING: Mumford, Tennessee, hello.
CALLER: Ms. Anderson?
CALLER: How do you stay in shape, especially after having two boys so much together?
ANDERSON: They're 18 months apart, my two boys. I felt like I was pregnant for three years.
KING: Mine are 14 months. I stay in shape with 14 months.
ANDERSON: Exactly. You look great for having two kids. ANDERSON: But it's having two kids. Two boys are very active. I mean, I play baseball, I play soccer, I ride bikes. And everyone is always asking me, how do you keep in such good shape, like your arms -- because I'm carrying them, and they still want to play...
KING: You said you're a vegetarian. Are you a health freak? Do you watch...
ANDERSON: I've always been very healthy. I've always -- you know, I really haven't -- I don't work out. That's my problem. But I chase my kids over everywhere and run the beach with my dogs.
KING: You don't work out. Have you had any plastic surgery?
ANDERSON: Have I? I don't know. Have I?
I've had one surgery. I had my breasts done. I've never had any surgery to my face or anything other than that.
KING: You mean you had them enlarged?
ANDERSON: Yes. You didn't know that?
KING: Honestly, I don't notice.
KING: You mean the world knows this? No, I'm not into those kind of things, really.
ANDERSON: Either of them.
KING: OK. All right.
We'll take a break. We'll come back with some more phone calls for Pamela Anderson.
By the way, one of our guests tomorrow night will be the attorney for Mr. Avila, the man arrested in that tragic killing in southern California. This will be the attorney who got him off in a previous charge trial where he was found not guilty. The attorney who represented him will be with us. Along with Dominick Dunne.
And we'll be right back with Pamela Anderson and Jane Pratt, editor in chief of "Jane" magazine, where she now works.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "VIP")
ANDERSON: Did you see that?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Where did you learn how to drive like this?
ANDERSON: I didn't. I just slammed the brakes on too hard and I lost control.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: So where did you get this car?
ANDERSON: Well get in, I want to tell you all about it.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: No, I'm not getting in. I'm working here. I can't get in.
ANDERSON: Take a break.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I can't take a break. He's not going to give me a break.
ANDERSON: She's taking a break!
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I'm not taking a break.
ANDERSON: Get in the Jag. I can show you my new penthouse, you know, Sunset Boulevard.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Sunset Boulevard?
ANDERSON: Get in!
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I'm taking a break! I'm taking a break!
ANDERSON: And I quit!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BARB WIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tough action. Tell me, before I take some more phone calls, the history of that barbed wire tattoo?
ANDERSON: I got the tattoo before the movie, but I really wanted an arm band tattoo, but it wasn't why I got the tattoo.
KING: Why did you?
ANDERSON: I just wanted a tattoo around my arm. I thought if you're going to get a tattoo, wear it...
KING: Tommy got a tattoo at the same time?
ANDERSON: That was a different tattoo. I mean, the shared tattoo. This isn't the hepatitis tattoo.
KING: Where is the other one?
ANDERSON: I have one off of my back.
KING: Do you feel funny having a tattoo?
ANDERSON: You know, I don't mind tattoos, but I'm really not as into them as I was.
KING: Do you think barbed wire is kind of symbolic?
ANDERSON: That's what people say. That's what people say.
KING: Are you going to do a cartoon thing?
ANDERSON: Yes, "Stripperella," 0069. There she is! There she is! See, that's me. Without the glasses, I'm Stripperella. With the glasses nobody recognizes me. I'm a superhero.
KING: Ah, Clark Kent.
KING: Louisville, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Pam. You look great. You look happy and healthy.
ANDERSON: Oh, thank you.
CALLER: I just wondered, you talked publicly about why you took your breast implants out. And I wondered, why did you decide to get them put back in? Did you just like how you looked then?
KING: Oh, you took them our and put them in. See, I'm learning this.
ANDERSON: I know. Well, you know what, I got a divorce and I cut my hair and I reduced -- I took my implants out because I felt like I'll show him. I think that's kind of thing that I realized I wanted my hair back and my breasts back and I grew my hair out...
KING: That was going to show him? Take the breasts out?
ANDERSON: I don't know. I don't know. Women do strange things.
KING: Toledo, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Pam. Hi, Larry.
CALLER: I just wanted to tell you I'm keeping you in my prayers for full recovery for hepatitis C.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
CALLER: And then I also had a question. With all the tabloid stuff that goes on from that woman breaking into the house and the rumors and the gossip, you seem really grounded. And I wanted to know if you had -- what your religious beliefs were, or spiritual beliefs were?
ANDERSON: Well, I believe in God. I definitely believe that He is the reason that I've gotten through everything that I have. And I go to church. My kids go to Sunday school. And it's definitely a part of my life.
KING: Protestant faith?
ANDERSON: No, non-denominational. Just I believe in God.
KING: Who broke into your house?
ANDERSON: A woman -- she broke in off the beach and she came into my house. She was in my house for three days before they found her. She was wearing my "Baywatch" swimsuit and my -- she actually -- when the police came she cut her wrists, and she bled. I think I was in shock, because I just remember screaming out about my Belgian linen sheets.
KING: That's good thinking.
ANDERSON: It was dreamy.
KING: Tampa, Florida. Hello?
CALLER: Yes, Larry. My question for Pamela is, do you actually remember the first time you worked with "Playboy?" And do you have any plans in future to work with "Playboy" in the future?
ANDERSON: I remember the first time I worked with "Playboy," my first cover, October '89. I was in tears. I was afraid they were going to see something. That obviously changed rather quickly. I lost my modesty. But I loved doing "Playboy."
KING: Is it tough to pose nude?
ANDERSON: It was at the beginning. And then I just felt -- you know, I just felt like there was nothing wrong with it. It was just a state of mind, and it was a very freeing experience for me. I was very shy.
KING: What did your folks thing?
ANDERSON: I asked my mom before I did anything. I said mom, I'm just going to pose for cover, and she was like, go for it. That would be great to look back on and see that you did that.
KING: Camarillo, California. Hello.
CALLER: Hi. Good evening.
CALLER: Pam, I have to tell you I respect your strength in dealing with your life battles and I hope you're...
ANDERSON: Thank you.
CALLER: My question is, with everything that you've done in your career and what's happening with your personal life, how do you feel about being a role model for girls and young women?
ANDERSON: Well, that's a point...
KING: Are you?
ANDERSON: Well, I think unfortunately celebrities get thrown into role model situations, and you think about marriage, how marriage is 58 percent divorce rate right now, and we don't really have a lot of good family role models anymore. I think that's what's most important is our family and our parenting skills and keeping our families together.
That's where all of our problems start and that's where all the solutions start, too. And I think when you're looking at a celebrity couple, when you're at -- I mean, it's even higher divorce rate, when it comes to high profile people, because it's who knows, getting married for the wrong reasons, whatever it is.
So I feel like I can be a good role model as a mother because I love being a mom and I have great advice for everybody when it comes to mothering. I have terrible advice for relationships. I can't follow that myself. But being a role model in that I'm a flee spirit, and that I've done what I've wanted. I'm self-made. I've created my own career in my life and I've had a lot of fun doing it. I think that's good.
KING: Are you worried about being a mom now, Jane?
PRATT: She's giving me good advice, actually.
ANDERSON: I said it's the hardest thing you've ever done.
PRATT: She did.
ANDERSON: I mean, who wants to live life easy?
PRATT: I'm not worried.
ANDERSON: Life isn't supposed to be easy.
PRATT: No, I'm excited.
KING: Yes, you ought to be.
PRATT: Yes, it's the biggest thing you can ever do.
KING: You're going to have a little girl, huh? PRATT: Yes, a little girl, Isabel (ph).
KING: And that's your wish?
ANDERSON: I want a little girl. I want to go shopping.
PRATT: And you will.
ANDERSON: Neiman-Marcus, Neiman-Marcus.
KING: This has been a delight. Thank you, Jane.
PRATT: Oh, wonderful, thank you. Thank you.
KING: Great magazine. This is the issue, the new August issue in which Pam Anderson's column begins. And our guest has been Pamela Anderson herself.
ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
KING: Thank you so much. Thank you, Miss Anderson.
ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. King.
KING: Thank you, Miss Pratt.
PRATT: Thank you, Mr. King.
KING: You're welcome very much.
ANDERSON: The king.
KING: Thank you. And so, another evening of just living this life.
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