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American Morning

Terror or Tape: Chemical Tests

Aired August 19, 2002 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: It has been nearly a year since the September 11 suicide attacks and since then we've learned much about Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda; names many were not familiar with just a year ago. But now in a five-part series that begins today and runs at this time every morning, CNN's Nic Robertson will show you a video of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network the world has never seen before, behind the scenes of al Qaeda's terror training and his deadly tactics.
Nic Robertson was taken to a secret location in Afghanistan to get these videos. He was told it was part of a private al Qaeda videotape library. First, a warning to our viewers, some of the images on this tape are graphic and difficult to watch. It is not recommended for children and some adults will not want to watch as well. We are showing you this because we think it is important that this video is shown to have a better understanding of what al Qaeda is up to.

Here now is Nic Robertson with part one of the CNN special report, "Terror on Tape.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hardest to watch of all the tapes and what experts say is al Qaeda's video library this one; apparent testing of a poison gas on dogs. Exactly who taped it and where may never be known. The dog tape just one in a broad and deep range of carefully catalogued material contained in 64 tapes CNN obtained from a secret location in Afghanistan shortly after they'd been dug up from a hiding place in the desert.

We have shown the tapes to many experts, including Rohan Gunaratna, a leading al Qaeda analyst who, in his consultation with the Western governments, has interviewed al Qaeda members and viewed more than 200 terror group's previous tapes. But until now, none of these.

ROHAN GUNARATNA, AUTHOR, "INSIDE AL QAEDA": The collection has al Qaeda videos taken by al Qaeda of events. Many where Osama bin Laden met with foreign journals. He always had his own tape, his own camera and it is those tapes that are there. Because that itself shows that this is the al Qaeda library, this is not the library of someone else and this is the registry, the record room of Osama bin Laden.

ROBERTSON: Perhaps most revealing about Osama bin Laden, these never before seen pictures show in graphic detail the al Qaeda leaders' personal security arrangements; all this material and much more discovered in an Afghan house said to have been used by the al Qaeda leader; a video archive spanning more than a decade giving new insight to al Qaeda's planning, tactics and mind set.

GUNARATNA: Those videos are not for public conception. They are only for the al Qaeda leadership, not even for their members. It is the al Qaeda memory. You have taken a part of the al Qaeda memory.

ROBERTSON: In the collection a three-hour tape of how to make purified TNT from easy to get ingredients, sophistication and planning and explosive skills that scare government bomb experts. Terrorists and training, not the made for camera al Qaeda promos we've seen before, but detailed demonstrations of how to kill, hijack and ambush.

Experts we have talked with say no terrorist organization has ever put this much expertise on videotape before. No terror organization has ever disseminated its knowledge this way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Although we cannot know with certainty that all this material came from Osama bin Laden's personal library, the extent of the collection and its nature, including several items that appear to be of personal importance to bin Laden, present a chilling reminder of the commitment and preparation of al Qaeda and its leader.

Once again, a warning to our viewers some of the images on this tape are graphic, difficult to watch. It is not recommended for children. Some adults may not want to watch as well.

Joining us right now is Nic Robertson to give us a quick preview of what we're going to see next.

ROBERTSON: What we're going to see here is al Qaeda experts, scientists and perhaps trainees experimenting with some chemical substances on dogs and what we're going to see is three of those dogs during these experiments appear to die.

ZAHN: We're going to watch that tape now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: We begin with possibly the saddest and scariest tape of all, showing the death of three dogs.

Calling out to each other to hurry, several individuals wearing Afghan-style sandals rush from the room. As they leave, a white liquid giving off a gas slowly seeps from the left and we discover these men are executioners and this is a death chamber. We never find out their identity, but they laugh as they leave the dog to his fate.

The video you're about to see is very disturbing and is not suitable for children. Some adults, too, may want to turn away. Coalition intelligence sources who have examined this tape say this appears to be an Al Qaeda lethal weapons experiment at its remote Afghan Darunta camp. Those sources say no intelligence agency has seen this before. The experimentation by Al Qaeda with poison gas. Already the dog reacts, licking his lips, a sign of increased salivation, a sign, say some of the experts we asked to examine the tapes, of a nerve agent.

John Gilbert is chemical weapons a specialist who advises the U.S. Government.

JOHN GILBERT, SCIENCE APPLICATIONS INTL. CO: The first impression I had is that it's a task or a demonstration of a very powerful and quick-acting chemical that behaves like a nerve agent, such as sarin, which was used in the Tokyo subway terrorist attacks in the 1990s.

ROBERTSON: Watching the tape is David Kay, formerly a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq, for whom the tape raises the specter of weapons of mass destruction.

DAVID KAY, FMR. UNSCOM WEAPONS INSPECTOR: It's a powerful segment of tape. First of all, the emotional response to seeing it is there. Second one is horror. Here again is another group that has managed to open the door to serious WMD capability.

I'm above a reasonable doubt convinced this is a nerve agent that they developed, either improvised, one, or they may have developed actually sarin in some form to use.

ROBERTSON: Al Qaeda documents examined by CNN last fall from the bombed out ruins of Darunta Camp showed chemical formulated for sarin. Other documents connect Al Qaeda's Darunta Camp, a series of modern building, not unlike this room, to chemical testing.

KAY: You're looking at the classic simple tomorrows that the dog demonstrates. For example, he loses certain muscles control, his eyes as they react, the way his muscles react, and then the gradual loss of voluntary muscles, and the final, the wracking loss of diaphragm lung capacity as he dies is the normal progression of a nerve agent.

ROBERTSON: We also asked chemical and biological weapons specialist Jonathan Tucker from the Monterey Institute to examine the tape. He, too, says he is shocked by what he sees, but he cautions that, for him, the dog's symptoms indicate not a nerve agent, but a form of cyanide.

JONATHAN TUCKER, MONTEREY INST. OF INTL. STUDIES: We saw visible fumes from the material that you probably would not see from a nerve agent, but is consistent with production of crude hydrogen cyanide gas by mixing cyanide crystals and acid. We saw a flask that had some white material in it that is suggestive of powdered cyanide. And I think what we have here is a very crude weapon binary weapon that terrorists -- would be attractive to terrorists because it's extremely low tech, and also very safe to use.

ROBERTSON: Dr. Frederick Sidell, another of the dozen experts consulted by CNN, says evaluation of the chemical is difficult.

DR. FREDERICK SIDELL, (RET.) U.S. ARMY INST. OF CHEMICAL DEFENSE: The most common chemical agent is something called mustard, which is a blister agent, and it's certainly not -- it could be a nerve agent or cyanide, but they characteristically -- the effects come on sooner. This was vapor. Those dogs appeared to be conscious until the end, which they aren't with nerve agent and cyanide. Those two don't cause selective paralysis of the hindquarters, as that agent did. So we can almost say that it wasn't those, either. So I don't know what it is.

ROBERTSON: On this tape, more experiments, and close-ups cataloging symptoms of death. The metal boxes in the corner manufactured in the Afghan style given an additional indication the experiments took place inside Afghanistan. The implication of the rudimentary laboratory test is unmistakable for our experts.

GILBERT: The implication is that al Qaeda or another terrorist group could create a number of different ways of attacking people. You know, for example, in an enclosed area, such as an airport lobby or in a theater, or a train or a bus. Another is that it could be used against individuals, selectively, who are targeted for assassination.

ROBERTSON (on camera): How significant do you think the discovery of this tape is?

GILBERT: I think it's probably extremely significant, if not profound. I know there's been a lot of speculation about the state of technology and how far they may have advanced toward having a usable chemical weapon. The fact that they were able to repeat tests or demonstrations on this tape indicates that they clearly have a way to produce a predictably lethal chemical.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Until now, intelligence agencies have had only fragmentary information to help build their picture of al Qaeda's chemical threat. Satellite images of Darunta camp showed dead dogs, according to coalition intelligence sources. In the 11th volume of al Qaeda's encyclopedia of jihad, obtained by CNN, detailed timings of how long it takes to kill a rabbit with cyanide, and recent testimony in federal court about activities at the Darunta camp by Ahmed Ressam, a man trained by al Qaeda and who pled guilty in 2001 to attempting to bomb Los Angeles Airport. This is an excerpt of that testimony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You watched as your chief put a dog in a box, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We were all present there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your chief put cyanide in the box, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He added sulfuric acid to the cyanide, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the dog shortly thereafter died from that experiment, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

ROBERTSON: Al Qaeda expert Rohan Gunaratna interviewed an al Qaeda member who said he had been involved in al Qaeda's chemical weapons program.

(on camera): Do we know where they did that?

GUNARATNA: No, we do not know. But it is very likely that it was in the Darunta complex or a safe house near that complex.

The tapes CNN obtained are disturbing, but at the same time they are hugely informative about al Qaeda's current threat. They add much detail. Like the Egyptian accents of the men testing the chemicals on the dogs in keeping with information that al Qaeda's chemical weapons chief Abu Khabab preferred to work with Egyptians. Still, the tapes hide as much as they reveal.

KAY: Only in one instance do you actually see the liquid, which appears to be either poured or pumped out, going out. You don't see it the rest of the time. So you don't know at what level they are in terms of weaponizing it. There are a lot more questions this tape leaves than answers, unfortunately, but all of the questions are really bad questions.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Questions, however, that if answered could help thwart the threat.

GILBERT: If the actual locations where those demonstrations were conducted can be found, there might be some residual material available that could be analyzed and might show, definitively, which chemicals were used.

ROBERTSON: Among those who evaluate terrorist groups, the equation of threat equals ability times intent. What is clear is that the al Qaeda equation now totals much more than it did before.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: We're joined now by Nic Robertson.

Nic, when you take what you've learned from these tapes and combine it with what you've been exposed to and the experts have been exposed to and the written manuals, what does it tell us about the level of sophistication of Al Qaeda's understanding of using chemical weapons?

ROBERTSON: Experts tell us that I sophistication. What they've also seen from the breadth and depth of this livery of materials is dedication by Al Qaeda to study a subject and bring forward their knowledge, to learn by their mistakes. So the experts we've shown this to -- and they are some of the world's foremost experts on chemical agents -- for them, it's been very, very frightening and chilling, to take the knowledge they have heard about before, that they've perhaps read about in Al Qaeda documentation, to see it on videotape for the first time, and to know that this shows conclusively for them a level of knowledge and a level of expertise that nobody could precisely say before.

ZAHN: Was there anything on these tapes, 251 of them, that were monitored that would suggest to you they are capable of weaponizing these chemicals?

ROBERTSON: Certainly -- coalition intelligence sources, they certainly believe that Al Qaeda is now ready and able to use this type of weapon, and use it against people in an urban environment. That is their fear at this time.

ZAHN: Got to be everybody's worst fear. We're going to take a short break here, and I want to just let our viewers known after being shown a portion of this tape you have just seen, a senior Bush administration official said -- quote -- "He was very troubled by the implications." The official who has knowledge of chemical weapons issues says the video of the chemical tests on the dogs suggests a very strong desire to acquire the ability to use such weapons obviously against humans. Those are his words.

This tape, said the official, is unquestionable documentation that he, Osama Bin Laden, has some capability. Until now, the official said, he had seen nothing that indicated bin Laden or Al Qaeda had chemical weapons capability.

We're going to take a short break here. Up next on AMERICAN MORNING, we're to and talk more with Nic Robertson about Al Qaeda's secret video library and how he got his hands on it.

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: We continue this morning with a CNN exclusive, the discovery of a secret library of Al Qaeda videotapes. They are revealing and at times extremely disturbing.

CNN's Nic Robertson obtained the tapes. He joins me now.

Good morning again.

ROBERTSON: Good morning.

ZAHN: When you first heard about the existence of these tapes, how skeptical were you?

ROBERTSON: I had to be skeptical that somebody would be offering what was they said were Al Qaeda or Osama bin Laden's library of material. You have to be skeptical. How credible could that be? As I began to look at material and learn more about it, and when I finally talked to analysts about it, experts on Al Qaeda, who've seen Al Qaeda material before, it came very, very clear that we had what we were told we had.

ZAHN: What also became abundantly clear, I guess, as you started to watch these tapes are what efforts Al Qaeda went through to disguise the nature of the material. What did they do?

ROBERTSON: Some of the tapes we discovered are training material, training material to make bombs, training material for field craft, to show how to assassinate, how to take hostages in an urban environment, how to blow up bridges, how to blow up houses in an urban environment.

Some of that material had been hidden in -- essentially inside movies. The tape box would be labeled that is was a movie, but as you scroll through the movie, the found further info, tape it was a training video. Some of these videos made several years ago.

The experts we've talked to say that they believe these tapes had very been sent out to Al Qaeda operatives. Made with that in mind, one tape in particular, the one to make pure TNT for bombmakers, people who are very, very experienced in bombmaking, analysts we've talked to, say this shows Al Qaeda's reached a very, very high level of sophistication in their bomb-making techniques, and that they've disseminated it by these videotapes -- tapes, instructions that are hidden inside movies.

ZAHN: But is it your understanding these tapes were primarily for the Al Qaeda leadership and then they decided what to do with it? They are strikingly difficult from other training tapes.

ROBERTSON: The training tapes we had seen before had been promotional videos for Al Qaeda. They are glitzy. They show people tumbling under razor wire. The tapes we have here are very specific, detailing training tapes, particularly the bombmaking tape. And the experts believe that what we have here, and because of the nature of the breadth and the depth of the material, they say that this material, was much of it recorded by Al Qaeda for Al Qaeda, that this came from an inner sanctum, if you will, an inner sanctum of material within the Al Qaeda leadership.

One videotape training on a surface-to-air missile appears to be labeled exclusively for Mohammed Atta, the military commander, who is now dead, who was killed in coalition bombing last year, Osama's bin Laden's military commander. The nature of that material, where it was kept in their establishment as well, our experts this was very much part of the leadership material belonging to the top level in Al Qaeda.

ZAHN: And in our next hour, we're going to describe how difficult it was for you to get the tapes out of the country once you got your hands on them. We look forward to that report. Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

We're going to give you an idea now of what lies ahead in Nic Robertson's exclusive series. This morning's was just the first installment of terror on tape. All week long he'll be revealing new Al Qaeda video.

Tomorrow, "Roots of Hatred," for the first time, a video of Osama bin Laden's May 1998 news conference where Al Qaeda declared war on the West. The tape provides a fascinating glimpse into the workings of the terror group.

And then on Wednesday, "Explosive Force" buried in a movie video, a detailed primer, or primer, on how to manufacture TNT from scratch using easily available materials.

And then on Thursday, "In Training," footage of training in Al Qaeda camps, including urban hostage taking and assassinations."

And then finally on Friday, "Face of Evil," what the tapes in total say about Osama bin Laden, the man. Up next on AMERICAN MORNING a closer look at the camp where Al Qaeda may have conducted some of its poison gas experiments.

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING. We'll be right back.

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