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CNN Live Today

Look at Bin Laden and His Forces

Aired August 20, 2002 - 13:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, we move on now to the release of more of the terror tapes obtained by CNN in Afghanistan. Today, we witness a crucial moment in the life of Osama bin Laden and the history of his terrorist group.
Here to tell us more is CNN's Mike Boettcher.

Fascinating look at this man, Mike, and his security forces.

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Absolutely, carol. To many analysts who have viewed these tapes, this is one of the most fascinating tapes, because it is candid view of Osama bin Laden, and it dates back to May 1998 when Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda organization announced a jihad again the United States and the west, threatening to kill many Americans, and indeed 11 weeks after this video was shot, they did bomb the embassies, American embassies, in Kenya and in Tanzania.

Now, for terrorism analysts, these tapes are very interesting because of the faces of the bodyguards. Usually when we see bin Laden in tapes, we see just him and some of thinks closest aides. What you see now is all of his bodyguards, and the entourage around him, how he travels, how he talks, How he leaves. and when he leaves in this instance, there is a lot of shooting that occurs, that does startle him. He lifts up his arm and for the first time, you see bin Laden frightened.

So the analyst, Carol, I have shown this to are very fascinate by this tape and are trying to figure out who is behind the masks.

LIN: One of the things promised in this special series that we are airing, Mike, is that we would understand better the mindset of Osama bin Laden. In this particular stretch of tape, what can you tell us?

BOETTCHER: Well, about his mindset, even at that point in 1998, he was very determined, he was a person who knew what he wanted to do, had his plans well laid out in advance. Already the plans for the bombings of the African embassies were more than a year and a half old, and presumably other plans were already in the works for future terrorist attacks, such as the USS Cole, and subsequently the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. It shows a very methodical man, but a man who when surprised can lurch back just like any other human being -- Carol.

LIN: What do you think his reaction would be if he knew that these tapes. I'm presuming if he is still alive, he knows these tapes are being broadcasted around the world on CNN. What do you think his reaction is? These tapes were never meant for public consumption, in fact, it was only for Al Qaeda leadership. Is that right?

BOETTCHER: I would assume he is be very happy at all. In fact, you just saw Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld who gets very upset about leaks from the Pentagon. Well, Al Qaeda has their own operational security and secrecy, and I would assume that they have been very upset. That's what analysts have told me, and also counterterrorists operatives. They figure that Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda aides would be very upset by the release of this, especially the tapes we saw yesterday with the chemical tests on the dogs. On those tapes you hear one of the testers say, these should be kept below the surface of the earth. Of course, they are not below the surface of the Earth; they are being broadcast all around the Earth.

LIN: You bet. All right, thank you very much, Mike Boettcher.

Now we want to go to Washington D.C., where CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen has just arrived back in town there.

Hi, Peter.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM EXPERT: Hi, Carol.

LIN: When you take look at these videotapes, what is it that you see? I mean, you have actually met the man. And one of the premises that you've had is that he operates Al Qaeda much like a corporate CEO. And I imagine you would see that these videotapes play a part in that strategy.

BERGEN: Certainly, you know, Bin Laden is a pretty -- organized Al Qaeda on quite rational grounds. And you organize it in the different committees, religious, political, business and media. In fact, the media committee was run by somebody called Abu Ruyter (ph). And these tapes that we are seeing are kind of an illustration of the fairly regimented way in which they conducted their media operation.

They had three categories of videotapes in the videotapes that I've seen. The first category is the type of scene we are seeing now, which is documenting the group itself, the historic moments of the group. The group is going public for the first time. Not only bin Laden, but the top leaders of the group, Aman Al-Zawahiri and Mohammed Atef, his military commander, are shown for the first time on those videotapes.

The second category of videotapes are sort of instructional. We have a lot of videotapes showing people making TNT from simple chemicals. We also have videotapes showing ambushes and kidnappings.

And the final set of videotapes of bin Laden, and his Al Qaeda people were collecting videotapes from around the world, from organizations around the world that they were interested in, from Burma, from Somalia, from Eritrea, from Uzbekistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, and that underlines the fact that Al Qaeda had groups -- Al Qaeda recruited people from around the world and had links with groups around the world -- Carol.

LIN: Would you agree with Mike Boettcher that that meant that Osama bin Laden would be horrified to see these videotapes aired around the world? Do they really give away that much strategy?

BERGEN: Well, I'll tell you, I think that they would not be happy about this particular videotape, I'm sure, because this videotape shows a lot of people that didn't want to go public at this particular press conference. The Pakistani journalists who were seen in this picture were specifically told you can only take pictures of the three leaders, Mohammed Atef, Osama bin Laden, and Aman Al- Zawahiri.

And as you can see, we see a bodyguard on the left here of the screen. You know, this videotape revealed a lot of other people who had an important role to play in the organization.

So I think they would be quite unhappy about this videotape being released.

On the other hand, you know, we showed yesterday pictures of the dogs being gassed. Bin Laden has said rather publicly that he has chemical weapons, and he said that in an interview in November, during the United States coalition war against the Taliban. He gave an interview to a Pakistani journalist saying I have both nuclear and chemical weapons capabilities. So that's not something that he's made a secret of -- Carol.

LIN: Are you interested at all, though, with this fascination he has with videotaping he has with videotaping himself, and him being a terrorist who was so public? You know, you never have found Abu Nidal holding a news conference of the desert and recording it for posterity.

BERGEN: That's true. But I mean, we live in a media age. Bin Laden is a pretty savvy guy, and he tries to use the media to his own end. And this is somebody doing interviews with CNN in 97, NBC in 98, gave the press conference we have just been watching.

And he obviously felt there was public dimension for his holy war. It is not something he was doing on the quiet. There was a period In the early '90s, Carol, when he was not seeking publicity, when he was living in Sudan, he basically kept a pretty low profile. At that time, he was building up a paramilitary group. I think he made a self-conscious decision starting in '96, '97 to start going more public.

LIN: Interesting we haven't heard from him lately about this.

Thank you very much, Peter Bergen, CNN terrorism analyst.

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