Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Gay Men Discuss 'New York Times' Announcement of Civil Union

Aired September 02, 2002 - 13:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Daniel Gross and Steven Goldstein publicly affirmed their partnership this weekend in a civil ceremony in Vermont. That might not make news, except that it was the first- time same-sex ceremony to be announced in "The New York Times."
The happy couple is now in Montreal, and they're joining us from there -- Daniel Gross and Steven Goldstein.

Gentlemen, congratulations.

DANIEL GROSS: Thank you very much.

STEVEN GOLDSTEIN: Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Let's start from the very beginning here. Steven, you wrote a letter to "The New York Times." Tell us about that.

We wrote a four-page letter to "The New York Times." We didn't involve any lesbian and gay organizations or any activist group or protest or boycott. Just the two of the us as residents of New York City wrote a impassioned four-page letter to our hometown newspaper, "The New York Times," laying out reasons why we thought, we like any other couple, in our hometown should be included in the wedding announcements. "The New York Times" wrote us a lovely letter back saying, No, but if we ever change our policy, we will include you guys.

And lo and behold, a week later, we read in the newspaper the policies changed. And an hour later we get e-mail from the assistant managing editor saying, You are in. And I jumped up and down and hollered and hooted and was so excited. It was on behalf of our whole community, not just on behalf of us.

PHILLIPS: So Steven, what was the policy? What did they say the policy was? How did it change?

GOLDSTEIN: I got tell you, "the New York Times" wrote a wonderful letter, even though "The New York Times" turned us down. "The New York Times" to this point had only allowed straight couples who were getting married to appear in wedding section. And "The New York Times" said, Listen -- they almost said, Listen we feel terrible, you are right, but we're going to change our policy in time, and we are a big newspaper with somewhat of a bureaucracy, and it might take many months or a year. Basically, that's what it said, and sorry we can't help you. They were almost apologizing left and right in this very lovely letter for how slow they move.

A week later, lo and behold, they moved pretty quickly. We were shocked.

PHILLIPS: Wow! So

So Daniel, you guys aren't political activists. You never thought of boycotting anything. This was something you just laid it out, you laid out the passion, and you decided, well, if it happens, it happens.

GROSS: You got it. Really, we are residents of New York, and like any other couple, straight or gay, we were getting married. We submitted. We thought it would be wonderful to be in the society pages. And indeed it is. We are excited, honored and really feel very privileged to be the first.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Good ahead, Steven.

GOLDSTEIN: Look, we are concerned citizens, and each of us is actively involved in politics, to be clear. But this wasn't the time and place to do that. Sometimes you have to influence people with a little sugar, not just vinegar. And we wrote "The New York Times" and said, We love you, we love our hometown newspaper, please recognize us as part of your readership and include us.

PHILLIPS: Now, Steven, why can't everyone have that mentality? My goodness!

Daniel, your family, you guys are quite the trendsetters when it comes to your family, because didn't you make the newspaper when you were born?

GROSS: Indeed.

PHILLIPS: Explain.

GROSS: My parents always taught me to be a good fighter, and I guess we kept it up. When I was born, when my mother was pregnant in the Chicago in the county, and it was true in Illinois, fathers couldn't be present in the delivery room. And my parents sued the board of health and won. And so, the day I was born, I was on the front page of the "Chicago Tribune," the "Chicago Sun-Times," papers all across the state and across the country as being the first. So my birth was the first, my marriage is the first. Let's...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Wait a minute. What's next? The baby announcement?

GOLDSTEIN: I got to tell you. What's next -- Daniel's sort of Superman. I tell him what's next is he's going to give birth to quintuplets on "Larry King Live."

PHILLIPS: OK, we will be waiting for that, definitely.

I want the scoop on that, guys. GOLDSTEIN: You got it.

PHILLIPS: Tell me how you met -- Steven?

GOLDSTEIN: Daniel took out a personal ad, and his personal ad said...

PHILLIPS: You guys like the newspaper thing, don't you?

GOLDSTEIN: I don't know. He took out a personal ad. It was such a charming personal ad, and we were so -- I was so riveted by it, and then the rest is history. We went on a date shortly thereafter, and we fell in love, and we've been living together for 10 years -- and this is our 10th anniversary together.

PHILLIPS: Wow!

This move by "The New York Times," I mean, this is a big move. It's the first ever. What do you think this tells Americans? What does this tell America about gay life and gay acceptance?

GROSS: Well, really, I think it acknowledges that it is no different than straight life and straight acceptance. You know, it is the job of a newspaper to be reporting the world as it is. And these kinds of marriages and civil unions are happening, and so we are glad that "The New York Times" has chosen to recognize and completely cover the world as it is.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'm told Montreal is covering it also. I guess we have a Web site showing that you guys made the paper there also, or at least the Web site.

Now, I'm curious, have you guys received any criticism for this?

GOLDSTEIN: No, not at all. And you know, criticism would sort of roll off our backs like water off a duck's back, whatever the analogy is. People are absolutely entitled to disagree, and God bless them if they disagree. But events like this are happening in the gay community. The gay community comprises 10 percent of the nation. What newspapers are doing, they're not taking a civil rights stand; they are just reporting on events.

PHILLIPS: So Steven, Daniel, where did you guys register?

GROSS: We registered at Bloomingdales and at Crate and Barrel.

PHILLIPS: Because I'm told we are going to get you a big gift.

GROSS: That's very sweet, but completely unnecessary.

PHILLIPS: "The New York Times" is going to pay for it, don't worry about it.

All right, guys, we are waiting for the scoop on the quintuplets, all right?

GOLDSTEIN: And we promised we are going to give birth to them on CNN. You have a vow. You have you exclusive here.

PHILLIPS: Live coverage.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLDSTEIN: Live coverage.

PHILLIPS: Steven Goldstein and Daniel Gross, congratulations, guys.

GROSS: Thank you very much.

GOLDSTEIN: Thank you. We appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com