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CNN Talkback Live
Authorities Stop Two Cars in South Florida After Three Men Make Suspicious Comments; Is Racial Profiling Driving Investigations?
Aired September 13, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-For-All Friday." I'm Arthel Neville. And all I can say is, put on your seat belt. We are ready to ride.
We have that situation in South Florida where police are.
And stay tuned, because we are going to set our sights on Iraq. You are going hear from two former weapons inspectors with entirely different views of Saddam Hussein.
Plus, a U.S. senator wonders if the West Nile virus could be a terrorist plot.
Right now, let's meet our panel. Tammy Bruce is a columnist for newsmax.com.
Hello, Tammy.
TAMMY BRUCE, COLUMNIST, NEWSMAX.COM: Hi there. Nice to see you. Thank you.
NEVILLE: And you are also an author. Let me let everybody know that.
BRUCE: I am.
NEVILLE: "The New Thought Police."
BRUCE: Thank you very much. Nice to be here.
NEVILLE: Good. I'm glad to have you.
Robert Tanenbaum, former head of homicide for the New York Police Department, he is also an author, of "Absolute Rage."
Hello.
ROBERT TANENBAUM, FORMER HOMICIDE CHIEF, NYPD: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: And Roland Martin, editor of blackamericaweb.com and news editor of "Savoy" magazine.
Hello, Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, EDITOR, BLACKAMERICAWEB.COM: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Also an author, not to be left out, his book is "Speak, Brother: A Black Man's View of America."
MARTIN: That's right.
NEVILLE: And John, guess what? We had shot of you when we talked about "Black Man."
JOHN MCINTIRE, HOST, "NIGHTTALK WITH JOHN MCINTIRE": I did not write that book, yes.
NEVILLE: You are not a black man in America, are you, John?
MCINTIRE: Yes, I am the whitest man in America. And my new book is coming out in the spring.
NEVILLE: And when it comes out, we'll announce it.
In the meantime, John McIntire is the host of "Nighttalk With John McIntire" on WPXI in Pittsburgh.
Welcome, everybody, to the show.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: OK, listen, what we are going to do right now for you is this. We are going to move on to this story in Florida we have been listening to.
We have a sound bite now from the lady who said she overheard three medical students, as it turned out, at a restaurant in Calhoun, Georgia.
Let's take a listen to that sound bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EUNICE STONE, WITNESS: We were seated directly across. There was only a piece of lattice work between the booth. And we were seated right next to three men that appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent.
And, at first, you know, I just went ahead with my breakfast. But then they were sitting there and they were laughing and they were talking about -- they were laughing about Americans mourning September the 11th. And I have very good hearing. And then they were saying if they mourn September 11, what will they think about September the 13th?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: And joining us now with more information on this story, which has been under way since early this morning, is CNN correspondent Mark Potter.
And, Mark, tell us what the latest is.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Arthel the latest is that this search is still under way here on I-75. It's going on behind me about 100 yards away.
To bring you up to speed, there are two cars involved in this search. A few hours ago, a couple of hours ago, maybe, authorities cleared the first car. They said they had gone through the whole thing. And they X-rayed all the materials. And they found no evidence of any explosive devices. And so that car was cleared.
Now they are about halfway through the search of the second car. They have taken all the items out of that car. They have them on the ground. They are going to X-ray them and see if they can clear all those materials. And then the agents will go inside the car to search the car itself. They're calling that their secondary search, going through the glove boxes, in the seats, and all of that.
And then, once that's done and they find nothing else, then that car will be cleared also. The highway here, which has been closed all day -- it's a major thoroughfare between Naples and Fort Lauderdale, crossing the southern tip of Florida -- has been closed. It remains closed and will be closed until these cars are cleared. And so we are told that that could be still several hours away. We just don't know the timeframe yet. We are waiting for authorities to tell us.
As for the detainees, they are still being held here on the scene in a van. Authorities have gone out of their way to say that they are being treated well. They are being fed. They are held in air- conditioning. But there have been some other developments as the investigation into their activities continues in Calhoun, Georgia.
We are told that investigators have gone to a Super Eight Motel to room 17, where the men stayed, investigating that room. Also, they were headed -- they said they were headed to Miami. And, indeed, a hospital in South Miami, Larkin Hospital, confirms that these three men were medical students heading there to begin a course at this certified hospital on Monday. They would not identify the men. They would not say what the course is.
But it's another key here in this to unlocking this story. And it seems to point away from terrorism, but, again, we cannot say for sure what's going on. We haven't heard from investigators. This investigation is still clearly under way. But the search here on the highway seems to be in the process now of winding down -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: OK, Mark Potter, thank you very much for that update.
And, right now, I want to discuss this with our panel.
Tammy, I want to start with you. And, first of all, what do you make of this lady's story in the first place?
BRUCE: I think it's great. I think every American has a responsibility to keep their ears and eyes open.
The reality is, we are still at war. And what that woman heard is worth listening to and dealing with as it's being dealt with. And let's be honest. If you had stopped Mohamed Atta on September 9 or 10 of last year, you wouldn't have found anything in his car either. Individuals are here as students. Some of them are doctors who are in the al Qaeda network.
These individuals, if they don't have anything with them, at least seem to have made statements that indicate they know something. And we at least need to be doing this and more when it comes to dealing with them.
NEVILLE: Robert, how do you see it?
TANENBAUM: Well, I like what Tammy had to say.
Tammy Bruce is sort of like the Coleen Rowley of the political world, Coleen Rowley, the FBI agent in Minneapolis who notified the bureau in Washington last summer about Moussaoui's activities in that area.
But Tammy is right. Notwithstanding where the people appeared to come from kind of thing, the information was given over to the authorities. It was spoken in a public place. It's not as though people are spying on others and snooping around, looking into windows, that sort of thing.
And I don't see this in any way as an intrusion. I think this as something that was a civic duty, wherein, if Joe the bartender heard this, heard people conspiring in some fashion, then certainly that would be reported as well. So it's important to be vigilant.
NEVILLE: Let me go ahead and see how Steve feels about this. He's calling in from Ohio.
Go ahead, Steve.
CALLER: Yes.
I think that 75 is a long way down from Calhoun to Florida and maybe they dropped something off in Tampa and then because -- it is suspicious that they went through those toll booths on their way to Miami. And those dog-sniffers are taught. They smelled something, so they could have dropped something off.
MARTIN: Is it not amazing that we are sitting here saying they could have dropped something off in Tampa; they may possibly know other things? We don't know anything of these things. This is far too much speculation. The question -- clearly, she says she heard something. But it makes no sense for us to all of a sudden act as if they are dropping things off.
BRUCE: Well, that's why we are investigating.
MARTIN: No, I understand we are investigating. But when you say, "Well, they clearly may know some other things" -- we've got the caller saying they may have dropped off something in Tampa. Well, you know what? They may be innocent. They may not be doing anything.
BRUCE: And that's why we are investigating.
MARTIN: Right. But, again, when we begin to jump to speculation, begin to throw other things into this mix that we don't know anything about, we should, yes, sit back, allow an investigation to continue. And, again, those individuals may be cleared. I am hopeful, though, that we aren't showing their faces until we get more information, so as we are not to create another Richard Jewell of showing someone.
NEVILLE: We haven't shown any faces at this point.
MARTIN: I understand. We haven't shown anything. What I'm saying is, I hope we don't get to that point of doing that.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Hang on a second. Before you get there, Tammy, I've got to get John a chance to jump in here.
Go ahead, John.
MCINTIRE: I appreciate that.
I hope to God that at least she accurately heard them laugh about 9/11 and accurately heard them say, If they think that's something, wait until they hear about 9/13, which doesn't necessarily prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt or prove anything at all. But it at least would give officers -- I don't know if it's technically probable cause, but a good reason to pull them over.
But did she actually hear it? Or is she just swept over by this post-9/11 paranoia, sort of heightened again by the anniversary the other day? So far, they haven't found anything in the automobiles. And I hope we also all continue to remember -- and it's become a cliche to say it -- that there are millions of Americans of my Middle Eastern descent.
Whether or not these guys are implicated in any way in the war on terrorism, millions of Americans of Middle Eastern descent have absolutely nothing to do with terror. And we all shouldn't start looking at everybody who walks down the street with a turban as some sort of suspect.
BRUCE: And here's the reality, is that you are right.
There are so many Americans of Middle East descent. The reality is, there has been one complaint and one report. And that should tell you that Americans know what they are doing and can be trusted. But let me give you a historical perspective. Before we were involved in World War II, Germans arrived on the beach, I believe, in New Jersey to sabotage this country.
This kind of debate didn't happen. We knew that we were at war or potentially at war. And people acting suspiciously and making statements, we can trust what Americans have to say when they have overheard something. And we should act accordingly. This thing about we should be careful and we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and about racial profiling and the allusion to that is bunk. And we need to realize that (CROSSTALK)
TANENBAUM: It's not bunk at all. Americans are perfectly capable of overreacting and doing the wrong thing. It's not bunk. And we should be careful. We don't know that yet. We don't know that yet in this case. We don't know that yet, generally speaking.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Hang on for me. I'm not sure if I want Roland or John to address this. But here's the thought. We are on orange alert now. The government, the administration is asking Americans to be vigilant, to be extremely cautious. Is this part of this?
Roland, what do you think?
MARTIN: Well, we should be vigilant. We should be cautious. We should be listening. And we should be watching. But we should not jump to any make any assumptions. Now, what I heard was, well, talk about the Germans and talk about what they were trying to plot.
How many blonde-haired, blue-eyed former military officers were we looking at after Timothy McVeigh did what he did in Oklahoma City? Now, you talk about Americans jumping to conclusion. But we have to reach a point where we didn't do that. I wasn't looking at every white guy, going, "I'm sorry. Is he driving a Ryder truck?"
BRUCE: I'll bet you white guys didn't declare war on America a year ago. Men of Middle Eastern descent, radical Islamists did -- big difference.
MARTIN: Excuse me. If I'm correct, the militias in this country have consistently said they hate America. They have consistently said that down with the federal government.
BRUCE: They haven't murdered thousands of Americans in...
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Listen, you know what? What I'm going to do here, I'm going to hold this subject over into the next segment, because you guys obviously have a lot to say. And I know Tony is standing by on the phone in big D. And I've got some people in the audience who want to speak out.
And if you want to get in on this action, you know the phone number. It's 1-800-310-4CNN or you can e-mail me at talkback@cnn.com.
Talk to you in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: On today's "Free-for All Friday," Janet Reno is left singing "Blame it on Florida."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JANET RENO (D), FLORIDA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: That is a very sobering experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: Also: Is the West Nile virus part of a bioterrorism experiment? A U.S. senator wants to know. How about you?
When "Free-For-All" continues today on TALKBACK LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
Right now, we are talking about Eunice Stone, the lady who reported to the authorities after overhearing a conversation at a restaurant in Calhoun, Georgia, where three now we know supposedly medical students made some pretty alarming statements.
And Tony is standing by in big D.
I promised you that I would give you a chance to speak out. And now is your turn.
CALLER: Yes, ma'am. Good afternoon.
NEVILLE: Hi.
CALLER: First, I hope no one looks down upon this lady if nothing turns up in the cars, simply because I was involved in black operations during the war in Vietnam. And you never carry any anything that could compromise your operation.
And I think it seems quite unusual that, unless something is already going down or they were involved in something, they would make statements like this, being of Middle Eastern origin.
NEVILLE: OK, OK, Tony, but, see, this is what the panel is saying, I think Roland maybe. Some people are saying these are assumptions that should not be made.
Roland, do you want to respond?
MARTIN: Right.
We shouldn't make these assumptions. Again, we understand that what took place on 9/11 was absolutely terrible, for nearly 3,000 people to die. But to sit here and make an assumption that we are doing that: "Well, what were they doing? They dropped something off. They could have done this. They could have done that." There's are lots of coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Again, we focus on the investigation. We allow law enforcement to try to find these individuals, question them, begin to look into their backgrounds. And then we follow their lead before we begin to make these kind of statements. We have to be careful. NEVILLE: But, Roland, do you think Ms. Eunice Stone was wrong because she reported this in the first place?
MARTIN: No, she was not wrong. Again, I believe she should have reported it. Law enforcement should begin to seek these individuals out, investigate them, charge them, or clear them. But that's their responsibility. But I won't jump to a conclusion of what they may possibly be involved with.
NEVILLE: I understand.
BRUCE: Arthel?
NEVILLE: Let me get Christine in. One sec, Tammy, because Christine here has an interesting story.
I think you reported someone yourself, right?
CHRISTINE: Yes, I did, about a month ago.
I work in downtown Chicago about two blocks from the Sears Tower. And I was at my lunch hour. I ran across the street to the Walgreens. And there were three gentlemen in there that -- like I said, you hate to prejudge people, but I thought they could have been of Middle East descent. They were purchasing a black kind of duffel bag and a radio and all.
And then, when they paid for it in cash -- because I was about two people behind them in line -- then they went over to the ATM machine. They were having difficulty with that. Then they went outside. And I just thought, this just -- my intuition just thought it was strange. So I saw a policeman on the corner. And I said, "Could you just please maybe observe them?"
And I told him what my thoughts and feelings were about it, because I think we all need to be open and be the eyes and all to help our professionals and let them take over and see what there could be.
NEVILLE: OK, thank you very much.
Tammy, go ahead.
BRUCE: Well, it is. It's like a national Neighborhood Watch group, that we have a responsibility. And I trust Americans. I know that we are a compassionate, sensible people. And the reality is, is that we have a responsibility to keep our eye open.
And there is a terrorist profile: Middle Eastern men between the ages of 25 and 45 who are either visiting this country on student visas, etcetera. And so we have to be realistic. We are not at war with the Swedes. It wasn't a bunch of people from Yugoslavia who slammed into the World Trade Center.
NEVILLE: Let me see if I can get Roland in here before this bell rings -- Roland, quickly.
MARTIN: Well, you know what, Tammy? I happen to sit in that 25- to-35, 5 foot, 10 inches, black-man profile as well.
BRUCE: You are not in the terrorist profile.
MARTIN: No, I'm not in the terrorist profile, but I'm in the black man profile. And let me ask you this question. Arthel, the lady you interviewed...
BRUCE: That's not what we're discussing.
NEVILLE: OK, we have to go. I'm sorry. There is the bell. We have to go. Sorry about that.
But you know what? You can be a part of this "Free-For-All." It's getting being hot in here. I love it when this happens. Give me a call at 1-800-310-4CNN or e-mail me at talkback@cnn.com.
Up next: does President Bush need the United Nations to take on Iraq?
Don't go anywhere. The fun continues right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
President Bush laid out his case against Iraq's president, Saddam Hussein, this week at the U.N. He suggested that if the U.N. continues to ignore the danger posed by Saddam, it would become ineffective.
John, what did you think about the speech? And did Bush convince you that the U.S. should invade Iraq?
TANENBAUM: No, he didn't.
He convinced me that they haven't been cooperating with the U.N. security resolutions. We already knew that. It was an impressive list when laid he it all out. And it was impressive to watch him speak with passion at the United Nations.
But I agree with Brent Scowcroft, the national security adviser for Bush I, who essentially said this isn't the time. Why? Why are we all paranoid today? Why do we all assume there's another terrorist attack coming? Because we know al Qaeda is still out there. We've heard it's growing in strength again. We've heard they're even moving back into Afghanistan and Southern Pakistan and all over the world, for that matter.
Let's keep our eye on the ball. Let make a lot more progress on the on terrorism and a threat we know is imminent, instead of one that we are speculating about may or may not happen within the next several years. Let's keep him in a box. And let's fight the war on terrorism against al Qaeda and worry about Iraq later.
NEVILLE: Roland. MCINTIRE: That's exactly why we have to go. That's why we have to do what the president and I think Secretary Rumsfeld are suggesting, because you can't really have a war on terrorism where we are dealing here with nonstatus homicidal killers who are getting aid and comfort, weapons, from people like Saddam Hussein.
And if the president -- and if, in fact, what happens is, while we are fighting al Qaeda and they are being supplied, encouraged and supported by Iraq
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Here's what is going to happen guys right now, because I'm running...
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Hang on for me, because we're running out of time. I want to get Roland in there, Tammy. And I've got some callers I want to get in, too. So, Roland, if you can give me about 20 seconds. And, Tammy, you do the same. And I'm going to get some calls in there, OK?
Thank you.
MARTIN: Here's the problem with that.
The Bush administration initially said that Iraq was harboring al Qaeda. Now they've backed off of that. So, now all of a sudden, we are saying, well, they are involved with them. They are supplying them. But they're really not supplying them. So exactly what is the story? That's why we require more intelligence, more study and consultation with Congress.
NEVILLE: Tammy.
BRUCE: Well, these are comments that you might as well transfer to 1938 and the rest of Europe when the appeasement of Hitler was going on. The reality is, he was in violation of the Versailles Treaty. Everyone was saying: "Let's leave him alone. Let's have peace in our time."
And the reality is, Europe has shown us that they don't know how to deal with madmen. A preemptive strike is necessary. America has saved the world twice over in the last 100 years. I don't think Saddam Hussein is any different than Hitler, but we can learn from history and not let it repeat itself.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Let's hear what Angel has to say. She's calling in now from Indiana.
Go ahead, Angel.
CALLER: Well, I just kind of look at it like this. We are in one war already. We don't need to get into another. I think we need to kind of step back and just watch what is going on, finish what we started, and then go on to a second one. If we start a second war, all it's going to do is open up a hole for them to come right in to attack us over here. I just don't think it's a good time.
TANENBAUM: And we'll have less cooperation from the countries in the Middle East to fight the war on terrorism and we risk Iraq attacking Israel, which could turn the powder keg into an explosion.
BRUCE: All this is going to lead us into a nuclear-based World War III, which we will die for and then we have to clean up, nothing less.
MARTIN: Arthel, it's kind of interesting that Tammy brings up history, when it was the United States who backed Iraq when we didn't like Iran. Then we're backing Iran when we didn't like Iraq. That's history. So Americans cannot sit here and act as if we have not done that.
BRUCE: Well, let's now do the right thing. Let's do the right thing now, instead of
MARTIN: Excuse me. We...
BRUCE: Tens of thousands of American lives have been lost to European incompetence in the appeasement of the devil. It's time for us to change that tendency.
(CROSSTALK)
MCINTIRE: That's not appeasement.
MARTIN: Didn't the United States back the rebels in Yugoslavia?
(BELL RINGING)
NEVILLE: Oh, there's the bell. Scott, I'm so sorry. I can't get to you. I do have to take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
BRUCE: I don't like that bell. What is that bell?
NEVILLE: Oh, come on. The bell has to keep you in check, Tammy. That's why you don't like the bell.
MARTIN: Where is Michael Buffer?
NEVILLE: No, we can't afford that.
Anyway, coming up, we are going to hear from a man who was inside Iraq and says we shouldn't be going to war. Who is he and who is he calling a liar?
Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back everybody.
Who better to know the dangers posed by Iraq's president, Saddam Hussein, than former weapons inspectors who have been inside Iraq and know what's there. Well, even then it's hard to tell.
Last night, former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter, and his former boss, Richard Butler, voiced some very different views on CNN's "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN." Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Did you believe, then, that they had weapons that they had concealed that you could not find. That's what...
SCOTT RITTER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: We had intelligence information of some credibility that Iraq was hiding prohibitive capability, and I was charged with investigating that. But let's be clear. Intelligence information does not translate into reality.
BROWN: Well, it may or may not translate into reality. Mr. Butler, go ahead.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: But, Aaron -- Aaron, I must ask this question. Look, I distinctly remember the intelligence information that Scott is referring to. It was good information, and I believed it and he believed it.
I distinctly remember Scott sitting across from me and some of my senior colleagues one day and literally thumping his fist on the conference table and saying, these people have these weapons. They are liars. We must go and get those weapons, and so on. I remember that.
BROWN: You never said that?
RITTER: No, the conversation that he's talking about is when I pounded on the table, and Richard Butler was threatening to shut down the concealment mechanism investigations, and I said, you can't do that. What about the intelligence we have about this -- that. And he said, we can't talk about that here. And I said, Richard, you are shutting the program down, so I'm going to bring it up in front of everybody, so you can explain why you are terminating it.
BROWN: So, he is not telling the truth.
RITTER: He's a liar.
BROWN: He's a liar.
RITTER: He's a liar.
BROWN: Mr. Butler?
BUTLER: Sorry, who is he calling a liar?
BROWN: You.
RITTER: You.
BUTLER: Oh, I just find that deeply sad. That's just so silly. That is so silly. I don't know why on earth Scott is doing what he is doing. I feel -- you know, I regret this is sad and sorry and silly. He knew very well that Iraq had weapons unaccounted for the day that we had the discussion I was just referring to. He knew that very well. What I fail utterly to understand is why he is now telling the world that that's not the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK, I want to give each person on the panel a chance to respond to that. We're short on time, so keep that in mind for me.
Robert, I'll start with you.
TANENBAUM: Well, Scott Ritter has been compromised, it seems to me. Moreover, Iraq is a dangerous state that refused to disarm and they refused to verify any inspections about disarmament. They have serious weapons that can hurt us. They are knee-deep in terrorism.
This is not like a trial and justice system in looking for the DNA or the smoking gun. Condoleezza Rice had it right. You want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. No American wants that. We've got to move and take out Saddam Hussein and his terrorist regime.
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Tammy.
BRUCE: Well, this debate is really unnecessary. As Bob has said, this is not about people voting whether or not to attack Iraq. That's why we have leadership. Scott Ritter recently went to speak, and I believe reports were that he was paid by the Iraqi government to go speak recently to their counsels. I can't explain his behavior either, but it's a good thing that Scott Ritter is not making the decisions in this country. George W. Bush is.
NEVILLE: John?
MCINTIRE: If the evidence is so clear and overwhelming, why isn't the rest of the world following us? If the danger is so imminent, then why are we the only ones...
(CROSSTALK)
BRUCE: Because they're invested in Iraq.
NEVILLE: It's John turn.
MCINTIRE: ... with the possible exception of England, and nobody else understands. Are the rest of the world morons and only George W. Bush has the mental capacity to see the threat? And, in fact, Cheney was making the case for weeks, but Bush said he hadn't made up his mind. I think it's all...
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Roland.
MCINTIRE: I think it's all because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Bush's father a long time ago, and he's upset it, and he's John Wayne on a mission.
MARTIN: It is amazing that we trusted Scott's instincts to be -- to go over there and inspect these weapons. Now, all of a sudden, when he disagrees with our position, all of a sudden, we're not questioning his motives. That's the whole issue. If there were other people in the room, they should step forward. But as he said, all intelligence, it may say something, but it does not necessarily prove something.
So, you have to have actual proof of these things. We've got to have more intelligence, and we've got to have actual proof, and we've got to do things on a diplomatic route vs. always saying, let's just invade someone else's country and take somebody out. That's a cowboy attitude. That is not the way things should be done in a democratic society.
NEVILLE: OK. All right.
BRUCE: Can I remind everyone that both France and Germany...
NEVILLE: I've got to let Errol (ph) get in here, Tammy.
ERROL: Since Scott's 180 degree turnaround from inspector to non-inspector, has not been in as an inspector since the turnaround, two things. One, let's check if there are threats to his family, and number two, let's check his bank account.
BRUCE: Let me remind people that both France and Germany have economic relations with Iraq. Iraq owes France $4 billion right now, and Oliver North's current column exposes the fact that neither -- a bunch of European countries, it's not in their interest for us to find out, go in there and have a regime change and find out how involved they have been in the reestablishment of Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.
NEVILLE: OK, I have Maddox (ph) here in the audience, guys. Hang on for me.
MADDOX: Yesterday, I listened to George Bush's speech at the U.N., and he made a very compelling case for the U.N. to go back in. But I am not convinced that we need to send American troops over to invade another country. Are we really prepared to have body bags coming back to this country? I think what George Bush needs to do is focus on the corruption and the scandal in America in the economy.
NEVILLE: OK, that was the last word on that subject.
Listen, I've got to take a break right now. Thank you very much for speaking out. Thank you very much. I have to -- hey, you are over there. I've got to take a break right now. But listen, we do have an update on that story in Florida for you. When we come back, we're going to go live to Florida, where CNN's Mark Potter is standing by. Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Faster than a speeding tongue, it's today's "Flash Round" on TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-for-all Friday." From diet beer and "The Sopranos," to who owns Barry Bonds Ball? Match your wits with our panel as TALKBACK LIVE continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
As I told you before the break, there is more updated information on that story in Florida, where we are going to go now live to CNN's Mark Potter -- Mark.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Arthel.
Well, as the second search winds down here on I-75, we have heard from a federal law enforcement source that among the theories now being considered strongly by investigators is that this all -- the search, the closing of the highway, all the concern around the country today -- all may be the result of a hoax. It may be the result of three young men in a restaurant in Georgia playing a joke, talking loudly among themselves, and being overheard by someone who took it seriously and reported it to authorities, and it led to all of this.
They are not saying that categorically, but that is a theory that they are looking at. And as the source told me that they would be very surprised if it turned out to be anything other than that.
Now, "The Miami Herald" in its Web site is also reporting the same thing. It says, and I'll quote, "Federal sources said they believe the three men were playing a stupid joke on another restaurant patron who gave them a suspicious look."
Now, we're waiting for authorities to complete the search here on the highway. We understand that they have got to X-ray some of the items from the car, go through the car, and certify that it's clean. And then, once they have done that, they can clear the second car.
And we are told that the authorities will come here finally to make a statement to pretty much wrap this up.
As for the detainees, we're not quite sure about their future yet. They are still being held here in a van. They are being fed, in air conditioning, as one official said. They're being treated well, but they're certainly not being allowed to go. We are not sure that clearing the cars here will automatically lead to them being cleared. There are some issues about some documentation on one of the cars to be dealt with.
But right now, there's something out there that may suggest that this all is not really a terrorist threat, but a hoax.
As one of my colleagues here said a moment ago, it may be the roadside equivalent of talking about a bomb at an airport security facility, which, of course, we all know can lead to terrible things.
NEVILLE: And what that would do.
POTTER: And that may have had happened here.
NEVILLE: Hey, Mark, what about the interstate? Is that going to open anytime soon?
POTTER: It may not be opening for awhile. They certainly want to get it open as quickly as they can, but cannot do it until these cars are cleared and taken out of here. They certainly don't want any cars driving by if there's still some possibility that there's something in that car unexplained.
So, they've got to clear the scene themselves down there behind me first, before they can open up the highway. But it sounds like it's heading in that direction.
NEVILLE: Right. OK, Mark Potter, thank you very much. And, of course, if you have more details during this hour, we'll break back in and, of course, keep it right here tuned to CNN, because we are going to follow that story.
And, Angela, you were sitting here shaking your head when you heard this story, this information. What are you thinking?
ANGELA: Well, it just disgusts me if it is a hoax this time to show such disrespect in our country for all of the people that are mourning the 9-11 event. And I just think that they should be arrested for perpetrating such a hoax, because this has cost us so much money as a country, so much alarm.
And I think that also some of these people are trying to get a discrimination suit. I have heard about this on the airplanes after 9-11, where they were making remarks, and I think that they're trying to get kicked off of these airplanes and things, so that they can get a discrimination suit.
NEVILLE: That's an interesting perspective.
Roland, I'm going to ask you to respond to that.
MARTIN: First of all, I have been mistaken for someone who is Middle Eastern. Now, what's interesting is, we are saying a discrimination suit? How about how we are looking at people, how we are studying people?
Arthel, you interviewed a woman earlier who said that she saw some man of Middle Eastern descent going to an ATM machine and buying a bag. Did anything happen with those men? Could they have possibly, simply run out of money? Is that a possibility? All of a sudden, we're just looking at people, looking at them with these strange eyes and everything for no basis.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: So, now let me ask...
MCINTIRE: Are we going to arrest everybody who buys a duffel bag and a radio and has trouble using an ATM?
NEVILLE: Sure, I understand those points you guys are making, but let's talk about the fact that if, in fact, this is true that this is a hoax, that these guys are sitting there intentionally trying to make alarming statements so they can alarm someone sitting next to them and cause this ruckus, I mean, what should happen to these guys if that's the case?
MCINTIRE: I think their -- if that's true, their behavior is despicable, and I don't blame Eunice Stone for calling the authorities, if they actually said that. It was a perfectly normal observation on her part, and a perfectly...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
MCINTIRE: ... reasonable way for her to behave.
NEVILLE: OK, let me get a call in here now from Pat, who is standing by in South Carolina. Go ahead, Pat.
PAT: Yes, I want to defend this woman who did exactly what she should have done under the circumstances. If, indeed, she heard -- and I listened to her entire speech this morning or recounting of the event -- she had a witness in her son. And there -- you know, there's a law against crying "fire" in a crowded theater. And if, indeed, these people did that, and there is nothing else to it, they ought to be prosecuted for that.
NEVILLE: Thank you very much for calling in.
MARTIN: No one is condemning this woman. I condemn those who make -- who say it was a hoax, but also we have to be careful how we look at people, how we are studying people.
You know, talk about those folks who are Sikhs, who have got a turban on their head, and folks said, is something wrong with you?
NEVILLE: But, Roland...
MARTIN: Wait a minute. They're not even Muslim. I mean -- yes, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Roland, of course, I understand what you are saying, OK? But these guys, they have to know, just like you were saying being a black man...
MARTIN: Absolutely.
NEVILLE: ... there are certain things you have to be careful about. You know how it goes? Driving in certain neighborhoods, a certain kind of car -- that happens. We know this racial profiling happens. But these guys should know that. So, why would they pull some sort of prank like this?
MARTIN: Because you know what? Maybe these men are tired of walking around and people looking at them and questioning their motives and studying them. Because you know what? You get tired of it. You get tired of walking around a store and a security officer following you around.
NEVILLE: Security, Lane 3. Security, Lane 3.
MARTIN: I have gotten...
NEVILLE: I have heard that many times.
MARTIN: I mean, I've gotten tired of a cop pulling me over, because I drive an expensive car, and asking, is this yours? Am I driving it? Of course it is mine. So, you know what? Sometimes you get sick and tired of being sick and tired.
NEVILLE: OK, let me get Sarah (ph) in here.
SARAH: I agree that racial profiling is not necessarily a good thing. That even though it does happen, we have to understand that we are a diverse nation, and that everyone that are inside the borders of this country and even all around the world, have certain rights, and we should respect those rights. But what happened this morning, if these gentlemen, in fact, have created...
NEVILLE: Can you get to your point for me?
SARAH: ... created this event, then they are just feeding -- they are just feeding the racial profiling.
MARTIN: They are.
NEVILLE: Tammy, let me try to get you in there before the bell rings.
BRUCE: Yes, obviously, this is a situation where racial and terrorist profiling is necessary. We are at war. And the reality is, Americans of Arab descent or visitors here from the Middle East have to be patient. If these guys are responsible for a hoax, if they're not citizens, they should be deported, and they should become financially responsible for the cost of what happened here.
And for Roland to suggest that there is an excuse to do harm...
MARTIN: No, I never...
BRUCE: ... because you were offended...
MARTIN: No, I never suggested that.
BRUCE: ... is appalling. MARTIN: I never suggested that. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never suggested that. What I was saying is you should never...
BRUCE: You speak quite well on your own, Roland. You said...
MARTIN: No, I said, you should never...
BRUCE: ... it's understandable. I don't find any point understandable. What is understandable about what they did or about responding in crime...
MARTIN: I never said it was understandable.
BRUCE: ... because you are frustrated.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... understand it.
MCINTIRE: I'd like to know how many of you own a duffel bag?
MARTIN: I never said (UNINTELLIGIBLE) understand it.
MCINTIRE: How many of you own a duffel bag on the panel?
NEVILLE: OK, now, I'm going to move on.
Next up on "Free-for-all Friday," why is voting such a problem in Florida, and who is to blame for failures in the Democratic primary? Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back everybody to our "Free-for-all Friday."
OK, let's talk about voting in Florida, in particular, Miami-Dade and Broward Counties, where they get a state grade of F minus, minus, minus. That's three minuses.
Closed polls, untrained poll workers, voters who don't know how to use touch screens, screens that didn't work -- you name it, and it seems to be a problem in the Democratic primary for governor there. While Tampa lawyer, Bill McBride is claiming victory, Janet Reno has not conceded and could take the vote to court.
John, was it presumptuous for McBride to give a victory speech?
MCINTIRE: Probably, but I can understand why he just wanted to declare victory and get the hell out quickly. I don't blame Janet Reno at all for exercising her constitutional rights. I think there's plenty of blame to go around, by the way.
Jeb Bush tries to blame not only the Democratic officials in the counties, who I assume are very much at fault, but after that debacle in the year 2000, Bush would have sent people to oversee if it's possible each and every voting booth.
And the real crime in the entire system across the country, have you seen some of these people who man the local voting booths? They can barely brush their teeth or write their name. I don't -- I don't even understand how the system evolved that usually the most incompetent people in the system are the ones at ground zero who are allowing you in to get the vote.
TANENBAUM: Well, that's what has to change.
NEVILLE: Hey, let me get...
TANENBAUM: That has to change, Arthel. The bottom line is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in Florida, it's the county leadership that -- and the parties that determine how...
BRUCE: Exactly.
TANENBAUM: ... and administering these elections. Now, the Democrats have amply demonstrated they're incapable of doing it in southern Florida. What we should do is have no party people involved in the administration. We should have the League of Women Voters type people. We should have third party interest groups...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's good.
BRUCE: Yes.
TANENBAUM: ... who are public interest people.
BRUCE: Yes.
TANENBAUM: Those are the people who should be administering elections in America, particularly in south Florida.
BRUCE: That's a good idea.
NEVILLE: OK, I'm going to get Jim in here from Virginia.
JIM: No question that those people are challenged down there. I mean, to get it wrong twice in a row, you would think that at least somebody could have gone in and taught them how to do it. I mean, the last time, they couldn't push the buttons. This time, they can't push the screen and can't turn them on.
NEVILLE: Tammy, you're chuckling.
BRUCE: Well, you know, the reality is this feeds right into the Democratic Party mindset, and I am a registered Democratic, is that it's victimization. We can't get it right. Now, whenever a Democrat loses, they're going to say, oh, we have been victimized by some system problem.
The reality is, Janet Reno lost by enough of a margin, where McBride could declare victory. Even if there is a recount, she'll complain about being a victim, but you know, that suits them. And yet, we have the reality and that victory...
NEVILLE: OK.
BRUCE: ... and the Democrats have to get used to losing.
NEVILLE: Let me get Dwon (ph) in here...
(CROSSTALK)
MCINTIRE: Janet Reno's party election was stolen in 2000, and she is justifiably concerned.
NEVILLE: OK.
MARTIN: The victim is not Janet Reno. The victims are the voters, who, once again, are not having their votes properly counted. And they should get it right before 2004.
Secondly, Congress and the president must have -- must enact serious voter reform across the country. We keep talking about it. Yet, nothing has taken place since 2000 on the federal level.
NEVILLE: OK, let me get Dwon (ph) in here before this bell rings. Go ahead.
DWON: Well, I think they need to repeat the whole process for this time, and then continue with next year, so that they can regain the voters' confidence. It's totally gone in Florida, and it's affecting the whole United States.
NEVILLE: OK, thank you very much.
MCINTIRE: Can we go back and do 2000 over?
NEVILLE: Can we -- I don't think so. I don't think so. Oh, look, there's the bell.
Up next: Our mind-busting paneling challenging "Flash Found."
But first, Judy is here to tell us what is planned for "INSIDER POLITICS".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Wow! OK, it's time for our "Free-for-all Friday Flash Round."
First up: Could the West Nile virus be a bioterrorism experiment? Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy wants to know if the spread of the virus is linked to terrorism. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that's highly unlikely.
What do you say, Tammy?
BRUCE: I think it's possible. We need -- we are in a time of war. We need to be vigilant and check every possibility. And you know, there was a dead bird on the White House lawn with West Nile virus. It can't hurt to check it out.
NEVILLE: Robert.
TANENBAUM: Before a senator shoots his mouth off about something that serious and causing public alarm, it seems that he would be under a duty to be concerned about checking with the Centers for Disease Control, the National Institute of Health...
NEVILLE: Roland.
TANENBAUM: ... before he does anything like that.
NEVILLE: Roland.
MARTIN: It's completely irresponsible on the part of a United States senator.
NEVILLE: John.
MCINTIRE: Pat Leahy is out of his mind. I like him. He's a good liberal, but if he meant it, he would have said it on something bigger than a little radio station back home. He needs to eat some Ben and Jerry's and chill out for awhile.
NEVILLE: Oh, well. Well, then you know, you have provided some great entertaining comments today, John. Thank you very much. I want to thank Tammy...
BRUCE: Thank you.
NEVILLE: ... and Robert and Roland and John, of course. Listen, guys...
BRUCE: Great job, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Well, thank you.
MARTIN: Thank you.
NEVILLE: You know, we tried this last week, but we didn't get you. So I'm happy to have you back on the show today.
BRUCE: Thank you. Thank you.
NEVILLE: All right, listen, I'm Arthel Neville. I will see you back here again on Monday.
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