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Feds Pump Arrestees for al Qaeda Info
Aired September 17, 2002 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Federal authorities are hoping to get some key information about al Qaeda operations now that a confessed planner of the September 11 attacks is in custody.
CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena checks in live from Washington with more on the arrest of Ramzi Binalshibh yesterday.
Hello, Kelly.
KELLI ARENA, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon.
Let me start by saying that from now on, I'm going to refer to him as Ramzi Binalshibh. I know I massacre these names all the time, but I have been corrected. So nobody things I have lost my mind. We are talking about one and the same person.
He says, as you said, in U.S. custody. The primary goal, get him to tell what he knows. Obviously, the first order of business is to get him to tell everything he knows about the September 11 plot. Of course, the only person in custody that by his own admission was directly involved with those attacks -- accord to investigators he not only helped plan the attack, but also helped finance the attack. And he was the conduit of information between Mohammed Atta, on who was one of the lead hijackers, and the al Qaeda leadership in letting them know how the operation was progressing and when that attack was going to occur.
Investigators say that they will hold on to him as long as they need to to interrogate him. Let's not forget U.S. Officials also have another al Qaeda operative, Abu Zubaydah, who has been in custody since March.
So there is no rush here, Leon, in terms of letting Ramzi Binalshibh go. They are going to talk to him, get information, corroborate that information with other individuals that they have that are detained. Intelligence is coming in to see how it all meshes together.
There was some discussion about whether or not he would face military tribunal. As far as we know at this point, there's been no affirmative decision made on that front. No rush here. The main objective, just interrogate him as long as they continue to get what is considered useful information out of him. So far they haven't got any useful information out of him, but that's a situation that is very fluid.
The other issue that's come up, Leon, concerning Binalshibh is what he might -- what impact he may have on the case against Zacarias Moussaoui. As you know, Zacarias Moussaoui has been charged as conspirator in the 9/11 attacks. He has not been charged with being the 20th hijacker, although that is something investigators have said that they believe, that he was taken in at the last minute to try to be the 20th hijacker. But he has been charged with conspiracy.
If Binalshibh says that he had absolutely nothing do with September 11, then the defense could try to get that information brought into court, and it could cause a bit of a problem for the prosecution. In terms of Moussaoui, that of course at this point is pure speculation, but it's out there. So I wanted to try to put it in perspective for you and our viewers so they know where this all fits in, Leon.
HARRIS: Of course, the big question is how long before any of this pays off. This interrogation process is going to continue for some time. We know that it takes months at a time to try to crack these guys.
ARENA: That's right.
HARRIS: Is there thinking right now, Kelly, that perhaps Binalshibh -- thank you very much for the correction there -- that Binalshibh could perhaps give as much information or be as helpful as Zubaydah as been, or more so or less?
ARENA: Leon, here's the catch. He was not very high in the al Qaeda operation. Let's not forget, if investigators are right and he did try to enter the United States four times before 9/11, the working theory has been that he was supposed to be the 20th hijacker. This is somebody who was going to blow himself up ramming a plane into a building. So usually, the organization doesn't sacrifice its high level command positions in operations like that. So he was a support and logistics person. So the wealth of information he has is questionable.
However, he has been out there. He has been out there, and he was just taken into custody. So the likelihood that he has some information about a possible attack that is being planned, since he is someone that provides logistics and support, is high. The likelihood is high that he may know something. So that's what they are really after. I mean, not only, you know, closing up the 9/11 plot and figuring out what they don't know, but also trying to see what if any new information, up-to-date information, because don't forget, Abu Zubaydah, for example, has been in custody since March. So he is not going to have any new intelligence or really be able to be helpful in terms of new developments that have taken place. So that is where they are really going to focus.
HARRIS: Let's not forget Binalshibh also is supposedly one of the monied people as well. With that being his other role, perhaps more details on the al Qaeda money system and where it's been able to get around -- the blocks (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ARENA: Exactly. And Leon, any information they get from any operative in terms of the inner workings of al Qaeda, and also how the terrorist organization is operating post-9/11, after it's been scattered, will be very useful, very useful.
HARRIS: Definitely.
Kelli Arena, from Washington, thank you very. Take care.
ARENA: You're welcome.
HARRIS: Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are also learning new details about the terror investigation in Buffalo. At least they are starting to emerge. Six men are in custody right now, and authorities are searching for a seventh person.
CNN's Jeff Flock joins us live from Buffalo with the latest.
Jeff, if we have it right, the seventh person is not in the United States, right?
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's what we believe right now, based on discussions with law enforcement officials.
I sympathize with Kelly and Leon in terms of the names. They all do either begin to run together or become somewhat hard to pronounce and figure out for those of us for whom English is a primary language.
But I have another name for you, at the risk of confusing perhaps even worse. The name is Kamal Derwish. It emerged yesterday. Indeed, he is that man to whom you refer as perhaps the ringleader of this. We believe that he is age 29, described to us as a native-born American and according to law enforcement, a central figure in al Qaeda. His role believed to be something along the lines of a recruiter.
Now, recruiter for what? For a cell here in buffalo or to send people overseas for training for some other purpose down the road? At that point, we don't know. We believe, based on court documents, though, that he arranged travel for each of the six men who are now in federal custody here outside Buffalo. He apparently, according to information that they developed, authorities developed, from those men, was attending a more advanced training camp in Afghanistan, when the six men were getting their training there in the year 2001. He appeared, according to them, to know trainers at those camps personally.
Now, as to what the fruits were of his recruitment, the six men -- perhaps we can show you their pictures again and talk about the varying levels of success perhaps that Mr. Derwish had in terms of recruitment. One of them, Moktar al-Bakri, the man who made his first court appearance here yesterday, is a man who stayed overseas and was apprehended in Bahrain. He, according to court documents that we have reviewed, sent an e-mail referring to terrorist activity, and that is what may have in fact sparked all of this activity and the taking into custody of all these men because of law enforcement interpreting that e-mail as referring to specific terrorist plans overseas now -- to be clear -- not in the U.S. Contrast that with the involvement of another man, Sahim Alwan, who apparently was only in training for about a week or two over there and said he missed his native America and wanted to come home.
So more details expected later in the week when these men have a bond hearing, Carol. We'll be here.
LIN: Jeff, at that time -- and I think that bond hearing is tomorrow -- at that time, are federal prosecutors going to present more specific evidence, because while they are characterizing all this activity at these terror training camps and all this communication, they have said that there was no immediate threat, that there was no specific terror action pending. So it is still a little unclear as to how they are going to be able to hang on to these guys under the terror charge from that 1996 law.
FLOCK: I think clearly that they are going to have to come clean a little bit with more of the details of what they have been able to develop. Based on what we have seen in the complaint thus far, and based on our interviews in the community, members of the families, there hasn't been a lot of evidence out there. Even they would say there were no specific threats, terrorist threats, made against any domestic U.S. targets. It didn't appear to have any kind of specific plans. It is unclear that they even had any further communication with anyone overseas with al Qaeda.
So I think they are going to have to come out with something else, so they run the risk of having these men go back on out on the street and perhaps wind up like the three guys in Florida saying we are not guilty of anything. You guys took us into custody wrongly. So it'll be interesting tomorrow to see what comes out in court.
LIN: Right. And interesting because as American citizens, they all have all the rights of any American citizen.
FLOCK: They were born and raised here. They grew up here. They played soccer here. Went to high school here. So it does make a difference.
LIN: So those prosecutors have to prove their case. You bet.
Thank you very much, Jeff Flock, live in Buffalo. Good to see you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 17, 2002 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Federal authorities are hoping to get some key information about al Qaeda operations now that a confessed planner of the September 11 attacks is in custody.
CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena checks in live from Washington with more on the arrest of Ramzi Binalshibh yesterday.
Hello, Kelly.
KELLI ARENA, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon.
Let me start by saying that from now on, I'm going to refer to him as Ramzi Binalshibh. I know I massacre these names all the time, but I have been corrected. So nobody things I have lost my mind. We are talking about one and the same person.
He says, as you said, in U.S. custody. The primary goal, get him to tell what he knows. Obviously, the first order of business is to get him to tell everything he knows about the September 11 plot. Of course, the only person in custody that by his own admission was directly involved with those attacks -- accord to investigators he not only helped plan the attack, but also helped finance the attack. And he was the conduit of information between Mohammed Atta, on who was one of the lead hijackers, and the al Qaeda leadership in letting them know how the operation was progressing and when that attack was going to occur.
Investigators say that they will hold on to him as long as they need to to interrogate him. Let's not forget U.S. Officials also have another al Qaeda operative, Abu Zubaydah, who has been in custody since March.
So there is no rush here, Leon, in terms of letting Ramzi Binalshibh go. They are going to talk to him, get information, corroborate that information with other individuals that they have that are detained. Intelligence is coming in to see how it all meshes together.
There was some discussion about whether or not he would face military tribunal. As far as we know at this point, there's been no affirmative decision made on that front. No rush here. The main objective, just interrogate him as long as they continue to get what is considered useful information out of him. So far they haven't got any useful information out of him, but that's a situation that is very fluid.
The other issue that's come up, Leon, concerning Binalshibh is what he might -- what impact he may have on the case against Zacarias Moussaoui. As you know, Zacarias Moussaoui has been charged as conspirator in the 9/11 attacks. He has not been charged with being the 20th hijacker, although that is something investigators have said that they believe, that he was taken in at the last minute to try to be the 20th hijacker. But he has been charged with conspiracy.
If Binalshibh says that he had absolutely nothing do with September 11, then the defense could try to get that information brought into court, and it could cause a bit of a problem for the prosecution. In terms of Moussaoui, that of course at this point is pure speculation, but it's out there. So I wanted to try to put it in perspective for you and our viewers so they know where this all fits in, Leon.
HARRIS: Of course, the big question is how long before any of this pays off. This interrogation process is going to continue for some time. We know that it takes months at a time to try to crack these guys.
ARENA: That's right.
HARRIS: Is there thinking right now, Kelly, that perhaps Binalshibh -- thank you very much for the correction there -- that Binalshibh could perhaps give as much information or be as helpful as Zubaydah as been, or more so or less?
ARENA: Leon, here's the catch. He was not very high in the al Qaeda operation. Let's not forget, if investigators are right and he did try to enter the United States four times before 9/11, the working theory has been that he was supposed to be the 20th hijacker. This is somebody who was going to blow himself up ramming a plane into a building. So usually, the organization doesn't sacrifice its high level command positions in operations like that. So he was a support and logistics person. So the wealth of information he has is questionable.
However, he has been out there. He has been out there, and he was just taken into custody. So the likelihood that he has some information about a possible attack that is being planned, since he is someone that provides logistics and support, is high. The likelihood is high that he may know something. So that's what they are really after. I mean, not only, you know, closing up the 9/11 plot and figuring out what they don't know, but also trying to see what if any new information, up-to-date information, because don't forget, Abu Zubaydah, for example, has been in custody since March. So he is not going to have any new intelligence or really be able to be helpful in terms of new developments that have taken place. So that is where they are really going to focus.
HARRIS: Let's not forget Binalshibh also is supposedly one of the monied people as well. With that being his other role, perhaps more details on the al Qaeda money system and where it's been able to get around -- the blocks (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ARENA: Exactly. And Leon, any information they get from any operative in terms of the inner workings of al Qaeda, and also how the terrorist organization is operating post-9/11, after it's been scattered, will be very useful, very useful.
HARRIS: Definitely.
Kelli Arena, from Washington, thank you very. Take care.
ARENA: You're welcome.
HARRIS: Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are also learning new details about the terror investigation in Buffalo. At least they are starting to emerge. Six men are in custody right now, and authorities are searching for a seventh person.
CNN's Jeff Flock joins us live from Buffalo with the latest.
Jeff, if we have it right, the seventh person is not in the United States, right?
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's what we believe right now, based on discussions with law enforcement officials.
I sympathize with Kelly and Leon in terms of the names. They all do either begin to run together or become somewhat hard to pronounce and figure out for those of us for whom English is a primary language.
But I have another name for you, at the risk of confusing perhaps even worse. The name is Kamal Derwish. It emerged yesterday. Indeed, he is that man to whom you refer as perhaps the ringleader of this. We believe that he is age 29, described to us as a native-born American and according to law enforcement, a central figure in al Qaeda. His role believed to be something along the lines of a recruiter.
Now, recruiter for what? For a cell here in buffalo or to send people overseas for training for some other purpose down the road? At that point, we don't know. We believe, based on court documents, though, that he arranged travel for each of the six men who are now in federal custody here outside Buffalo. He apparently, according to information that they developed, authorities developed, from those men, was attending a more advanced training camp in Afghanistan, when the six men were getting their training there in the year 2001. He appeared, according to them, to know trainers at those camps personally.
Now, as to what the fruits were of his recruitment, the six men -- perhaps we can show you their pictures again and talk about the varying levels of success perhaps that Mr. Derwish had in terms of recruitment. One of them, Moktar al-Bakri, the man who made his first court appearance here yesterday, is a man who stayed overseas and was apprehended in Bahrain. He, according to court documents that we have reviewed, sent an e-mail referring to terrorist activity, and that is what may have in fact sparked all of this activity and the taking into custody of all these men because of law enforcement interpreting that e-mail as referring to specific terrorist plans overseas now -- to be clear -- not in the U.S. Contrast that with the involvement of another man, Sahim Alwan, who apparently was only in training for about a week or two over there and said he missed his native America and wanted to come home.
So more details expected later in the week when these men have a bond hearing, Carol. We'll be here.
LIN: Jeff, at that time -- and I think that bond hearing is tomorrow -- at that time, are federal prosecutors going to present more specific evidence, because while they are characterizing all this activity at these terror training camps and all this communication, they have said that there was no immediate threat, that there was no specific terror action pending. So it is still a little unclear as to how they are going to be able to hang on to these guys under the terror charge from that 1996 law.
FLOCK: I think clearly that they are going to have to come clean a little bit with more of the details of what they have been able to develop. Based on what we have seen in the complaint thus far, and based on our interviews in the community, members of the families, there hasn't been a lot of evidence out there. Even they would say there were no specific threats, terrorist threats, made against any domestic U.S. targets. It didn't appear to have any kind of specific plans. It is unclear that they even had any further communication with anyone overseas with al Qaeda.
So I think they are going to have to come out with something else, so they run the risk of having these men go back on out on the street and perhaps wind up like the three guys in Florida saying we are not guilty of anything. You guys took us into custody wrongly. So it'll be interesting tomorrow to see what comes out in court.
LIN: Right. And interesting because as American citizens, they all have all the rights of any American citizen.
FLOCK: They were born and raised here. They grew up here. They played soccer here. Went to high school here. So it does make a difference.
LIN: So those prosecutors have to prove their case. You bet.
Thank you very much, Jeff Flock, live in Buffalo. Good to see you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
