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CNN Live At Daybreak
Discussion With Jakarta Bureau Chief
Aired September 19, 2002 - 05:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Whenever possible, we like to talk one-on-one with our correspondents, who often risk their lives to bring us news from all corners of the globe.
Today, we've got our Jakarta bureau chief Maria Ressa here. She's uncovered major stories through investigative work, especially on the war on terrorism.
Welcome to Atlanta for your short week's stay.
MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's good to be here, Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes, it's very -- you usually live in Jakarta.
RESSA: I do. That's been my digs for the last seven or so years. But I've been spending a lot of time in the Philippines recently.
COSTELLO: And it's been very scary in the Philippines lately. So what's it like to live in a place like that, with danger all around you?
RESSA: You know, you don't realize it because that's, it's kind of like if you're, if you put something in boiling water, the atmosphere increases. You don't know that it's boiling until you take it out. You don't have anything to compare it with.
I think the most interesting thing is that what I've learned is that law and order is a facade. We have a social contract to follow the laws. You're not forced to in many of the countries that I live in sometimes and there's nothing that's forcing you to do that. And so you see how fragile it really is.
COSTELLO: Oh, definitely, especially with a group like Abu Sayyaf, you know, with the kidnappings of the Burnhams and they kidnap people and sometimes they behead them and keep them for months and months at a time.
RESSA: Well, Gracia Burnham is really a glowing example, inspirational, I would say, you know, in how she handled it, more than a year in Abu Sayyaf's custody. She watched her husband die. He died on top of her, basically kind of bled to death. He died protecting her. And she comes out of the whole ordeal wanting to initially spend her first days free talking with the other victims. She's gone on beyond that and talked to the Philippine government.
This is a long running problem for the Philippines. It started with poverty as a main root. But also exacerbated by the fact that you've gotten Osama bin Laden's very radical teachings filtering to these groups in the southern Philippines. The roots go back to the late '80s when about 1,000 Filipino Muslims went to Afghanistan to fight in the Afghan war.
COSTELLO: So that's when it began. Because, you know, I was wondering how Osama bin Laden is able to, I don't know, some people might call it brainwash other terrorist groups into believing in his quest.
RESSA: Actually, the reason why Southeast Asia is a good case study is because in many ways he was most successful there in quietly co-opting homegrown separatist movements. They've been there forever. They have their own domestic agendas. But what he's done is he's said look, let me give you some money, let me give you support. I listen. I know what you're fighting for. And in return, you do this for me because in the end our enemy is the same thing. And he's able to make the U.S. and Western interests the enemy of all these groups who really, in the end, are fighting initially for their own domestic concerns.
COSTELLO: So how deep are al Qaeda's roots and Osama bin Laden's roots in Southeast Asia as a whole?
RESSA: Very deep. It goes way back to 1988 when Osama bin Laden sent his brother-in-law, Muhammad Jamal Khalifa, to the southern Philippines. That started the infrastructure of business, NGOs, charities, funding money going into those groups, the Philippines being the base that he used to jump out into Southeast Asia.
Beyond that, remember in 1995 there was a terrorist cell, Ramsey Yousef, behind the bombing of the first World Trade -- the first bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.
COSTELLO: In 1993.
RESSA: The man who actually led that cell was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He is the man U.S. authorities say is a key planner for September 11. In Ramsey Yousef's computer in 1995 in the Philippines, authorities found a plot to hijack commercial planes and ram them into government buildings in the U.S.
So there's that. And then beyond that, from that time there were at least two or three operatives that we know of who've gone on up the ranks of al Qaeda. They've gone and co-opted maybe up to nine, at least nine separatist Muslim armed groups in Southeast Asia. And we have evidence of the meetings that they have had to coordinate themselves. Al Qaeda has had a key planning session in Malaysia in 2000, which the CIA knew about.
COSTELLO: Right.
RESSA: Two of the September 11 hijackers were there, as well as the man who is credited really with masterminding the bombing of the USS Cole.
COSTELLO: So is enough being done in Southeast Asia to root out al Qaeda?
RESSA: It's just starting to happen. The problem was for a long time many of these governments thought they were homegrown problems. You know, my problem is in the southern Philippines. These bombings were really just Filipino problems. Or the bombings in Indonesia -- never mind that the bombings in Indonesia in 2000 took place six days before the bombings in the Philippines in 2000 or that they seemed coordinated in some way or that the Philippine ambassador's house was bombed in August 2000.
Nobody looked at it as a whole issue, as a whole. And it really wasn't until the war on terror that they started to say OK, well, maybe we should exchange information. That has been speeded up with Omar al-Faruq's questioning by the CIA. Last week the U.S. raised its terror alert from yellow to orange.
COSTELLO: To orange.
RESSA: Largely because of information from him. It has given that information to governments in Southeast Asia. At least six names have been given to Indonesia that he has named. They are looking for them. Just this week there's a spate of arrests that have been announced in Southeast Asia.
COSTELLO: Right. Right.
Maria Ressa, thank you so much. And be careful.
RESSA: OK.
COSTELLO: Be very careful. I can't imagine how you do it.
Thank you for stopping by. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 19, 2002 - 05:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Whenever possible, we like to talk one-on-one with our correspondents, who often risk their lives to bring us news from all corners of the globe.
Today, we've got our Jakarta bureau chief Maria Ressa here. She's uncovered major stories through investigative work, especially on the war on terrorism.
Welcome to Atlanta for your short week's stay.
MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's good to be here, Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes, it's very -- you usually live in Jakarta.
RESSA: I do. That's been my digs for the last seven or so years. But I've been spending a lot of time in the Philippines recently.
COSTELLO: And it's been very scary in the Philippines lately. So what's it like to live in a place like that, with danger all around you?
RESSA: You know, you don't realize it because that's, it's kind of like if you're, if you put something in boiling water, the atmosphere increases. You don't know that it's boiling until you take it out. You don't have anything to compare it with.
I think the most interesting thing is that what I've learned is that law and order is a facade. We have a social contract to follow the laws. You're not forced to in many of the countries that I live in sometimes and there's nothing that's forcing you to do that. And so you see how fragile it really is.
COSTELLO: Oh, definitely, especially with a group like Abu Sayyaf, you know, with the kidnappings of the Burnhams and they kidnap people and sometimes they behead them and keep them for months and months at a time.
RESSA: Well, Gracia Burnham is really a glowing example, inspirational, I would say, you know, in how she handled it, more than a year in Abu Sayyaf's custody. She watched her husband die. He died on top of her, basically kind of bled to death. He died protecting her. And she comes out of the whole ordeal wanting to initially spend her first days free talking with the other victims. She's gone on beyond that and talked to the Philippine government.
This is a long running problem for the Philippines. It started with poverty as a main root. But also exacerbated by the fact that you've gotten Osama bin Laden's very radical teachings filtering to these groups in the southern Philippines. The roots go back to the late '80s when about 1,000 Filipino Muslims went to Afghanistan to fight in the Afghan war.
COSTELLO: So that's when it began. Because, you know, I was wondering how Osama bin Laden is able to, I don't know, some people might call it brainwash other terrorist groups into believing in his quest.
RESSA: Actually, the reason why Southeast Asia is a good case study is because in many ways he was most successful there in quietly co-opting homegrown separatist movements. They've been there forever. They have their own domestic agendas. But what he's done is he's said look, let me give you some money, let me give you support. I listen. I know what you're fighting for. And in return, you do this for me because in the end our enemy is the same thing. And he's able to make the U.S. and Western interests the enemy of all these groups who really, in the end, are fighting initially for their own domestic concerns.
COSTELLO: So how deep are al Qaeda's roots and Osama bin Laden's roots in Southeast Asia as a whole?
RESSA: Very deep. It goes way back to 1988 when Osama bin Laden sent his brother-in-law, Muhammad Jamal Khalifa, to the southern Philippines. That started the infrastructure of business, NGOs, charities, funding money going into those groups, the Philippines being the base that he used to jump out into Southeast Asia.
Beyond that, remember in 1995 there was a terrorist cell, Ramsey Yousef, behind the bombing of the first World Trade -- the first bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.
COSTELLO: In 1993.
RESSA: The man who actually led that cell was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He is the man U.S. authorities say is a key planner for September 11. In Ramsey Yousef's computer in 1995 in the Philippines, authorities found a plot to hijack commercial planes and ram them into government buildings in the U.S.
So there's that. And then beyond that, from that time there were at least two or three operatives that we know of who've gone on up the ranks of al Qaeda. They've gone and co-opted maybe up to nine, at least nine separatist Muslim armed groups in Southeast Asia. And we have evidence of the meetings that they have had to coordinate themselves. Al Qaeda has had a key planning session in Malaysia in 2000, which the CIA knew about.
COSTELLO: Right.
RESSA: Two of the September 11 hijackers were there, as well as the man who is credited really with masterminding the bombing of the USS Cole.
COSTELLO: So is enough being done in Southeast Asia to root out al Qaeda?
RESSA: It's just starting to happen. The problem was for a long time many of these governments thought they were homegrown problems. You know, my problem is in the southern Philippines. These bombings were really just Filipino problems. Or the bombings in Indonesia -- never mind that the bombings in Indonesia in 2000 took place six days before the bombings in the Philippines in 2000 or that they seemed coordinated in some way or that the Philippine ambassador's house was bombed in August 2000.
Nobody looked at it as a whole issue, as a whole. And it really wasn't until the war on terror that they started to say OK, well, maybe we should exchange information. That has been speeded up with Omar al-Faruq's questioning by the CIA. Last week the U.S. raised its terror alert from yellow to orange.
COSTELLO: To orange.
RESSA: Largely because of information from him. It has given that information to governments in Southeast Asia. At least six names have been given to Indonesia that he has named. They are looking for them. Just this week there's a spate of arrests that have been announced in Southeast Asia.
COSTELLO: Right. Right.
Maria Ressa, thank you so much. And be careful.
RESSA: OK.
COSTELLO: Be very careful. I can't imagine how you do it.
Thank you for stopping by. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
