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CNN Live Today
Bond Hearing Resumes Today For Buffalo Suspects
Aired September 19, 2002 - 11:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the government says they are dangerous men who trained at an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. But today, defense attorneys will argue that the six terror suspects are peaceful, community-minded guys who should be released on bail.
CNN's Jeff Flock has been all over every detail of this. He's covering a bond hearing. He joins us now live from Buffalo, New York.
Jeff, I'm hearing the government has more specifics now, at least in their case.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they presented some specifics, you know, this has got to be one of the longest bond hearings I have ever seen. It started yesterday at about 2:30 local time, and went all day into the evening, and now, that was just the government side. Now the defense today at two and about three hours time.
What did they present? Well, If you were looking for explosive evidence that these men have some involvement with Al Qaeda, a direct involvement and were an Al Qaeda cell here outside of Buffalo, that did not come out. There was evidence that indeed they went overseas, they went to Afghanistan, they participated in Al Qaeda training over there, but what then did they do? And is that even against the law?
That hasn't yet been established. One, though, interesting piece of evidence referred to, that's this e-mail, and it's an e-mail from Mukhtar Al-Bakri He is one of the six men that is being held. It was written on July 18, 2002, and we put it up there.
"I would like to remind you that the next meal will be very huge. No one will be able to withstand it, except for those with faith. There are people here who had visions, and there visions were strong. They're visions were explained, that this will be very strong. No one will be able to bear it."
Sounds pretty cryptic. The government says it is a reference specifically to a terrorist attack, a bombing of some sort, even though Mohamed Al-Bakri admits that it was in fact a reference to that, but it may be that he was describing a sentiment over there, or the talk that was over there. Whether he or anybody else having direct involvement for a planed terrorist act or knowledge of it, that has not been introduced in evidence, and of course that's going to be a very important point.
As you point out, the judge will rule today presumably on whether or not these men get out on bond, and he is indicated by the questions that he has been asking, is that he fully intends to hear out the defense. The government, on the other hand, says that these men are risks of flight, they are dangerous to the community.
Let's listen to the prosecutor:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM HOCHUL, ASST. U.S. ATTY.: There is evidence of continuing dangerousness of the community, and we supplied that evidence to the judge, and also a risk of flight, and that the danger to the community and the possibility of flight was so grave that there were no conditions or combination of conditions that would allow the court to ensure that the defendant would continue to show up in court if he was released.
Basically, Mr. Hochul says they went to Afghanistan before. They will do it again. We will see what the judge thinks again in less than three hours from now, Kris. That's the latest from here.
Back to you.
OSBORN: Jeff Flock, difficult to know exactly what meal might have meant.
Thanks very much.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Will the government be able to keep the six buffalo suspects behind bars? Joining us now with some legal insight into the bond hearing is Kendall Coffey, and he is a former federal prosecutor, and he's in our Miami bureau this morning.
Thanks a lot. Good to see you.
KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good to see you, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Prosecutors tried to make the case that the guys are a flight risk. Do you think they did a good job of establishing that?
COFFEY: I think they probably give it enough, although this is going to be a closer call than some of them, especially with respect to one of the defendants. The folks that spend five or even weeks or so training in Al Qaeda, learning to use guns, learning to use explosives, hearing about the mission of killing Americans, I think they are not going to get bond. That's a very tough sell.
One of the group left after 10 days, and the judge's questioning indicating that it may be someone with a different look if the judge concludes it is someone that lost interest, renounced, et cetera, but when you look at these individuals as they're known in their community, they're good folks, they're peaceful folks, but according to the government, there is a secret life in which they signed off and learned how to participate with the worst of the worst of America's enemies.
WHITFIELD: In fact, you talk about at least one of them who departed the camp rather early. It is likely that the defense will offer that this is evidence that perhaps these young men were duped, they didn't know what they were getting into, and they defense might likely try to make the case that this is why the guys left the camp a little bit earlier.
Would you buy that?
COFFEY: The one that left after 10 days has got a shot, but why does anyone stick around for five, or six or seven weeks learning about explosives and guns. Getting duped into something like that? Not very plausible. So I think the likelihood is they will all be denied bond. If anyone is granted bond, I think it could be Awan (ph), if indeed he left early and he's able to present that his circumstances suggested he did not want anything to do with this after he found out more about what was going on at the Al-Faruq training camp.
WHITFIELD: This bond hearing does seem to be taking an awful lot of time. We don't usually see them go into day two. This isn't a trial, so it's not likely that prosecutors are going to be or would have to submit any sort of evidence, correct?
COFFEY: Exactly, the prosecution does not have to prove their case, as your correspondent described moments ago. There are two issues here: dangerousness to the community and risk of flight. It's a very preliminary threshold, and this hearing has gone on in detail, which I think indicates that the judge has an opened mind.
WHITFIELD: How interesting is it going to be that the defense will try to make the case that not only do we have family members that say they are willing to keep a close watch of these young guys, but that the entire community in this Lackawanna suburb of Buffalo, many of the people say that these are respectable young guys and they have a fairly good reputation. How much might that weigh in on the judge's decision?
COFFEY: I think that is important. But what I think that the judge is going to see is the side of the evidence that even these friends and family didn't know. They did not know that the men as people learning the tools of the trade of terrorism. They saw a different side of them. And in fact these defendants apparently disguised what they were doing for all purposes. No one knew what they were doing. So the fact that people knew nothing about their secret life and their attempted secret careers as terrorist trainees still believing them, I do not think this is necessarily going to carry the day.
WHITFIELD: All right, Kendall Coffey, good to see you again. Thanks very much.
COFFEY: Thanks, Fredricka.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 19, 2002 - 11:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the government says they are dangerous men who trained at an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. But today, defense attorneys will argue that the six terror suspects are peaceful, community-minded guys who should be released on bail.
CNN's Jeff Flock has been all over every detail of this. He's covering a bond hearing. He joins us now live from Buffalo, New York.
Jeff, I'm hearing the government has more specifics now, at least in their case.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they presented some specifics, you know, this has got to be one of the longest bond hearings I have ever seen. It started yesterday at about 2:30 local time, and went all day into the evening, and now, that was just the government side. Now the defense today at two and about three hours time.
What did they present? Well, If you were looking for explosive evidence that these men have some involvement with Al Qaeda, a direct involvement and were an Al Qaeda cell here outside of Buffalo, that did not come out. There was evidence that indeed they went overseas, they went to Afghanistan, they participated in Al Qaeda training over there, but what then did they do? And is that even against the law?
That hasn't yet been established. One, though, interesting piece of evidence referred to, that's this e-mail, and it's an e-mail from Mukhtar Al-Bakri He is one of the six men that is being held. It was written on July 18, 2002, and we put it up there.
"I would like to remind you that the next meal will be very huge. No one will be able to withstand it, except for those with faith. There are people here who had visions, and there visions were strong. They're visions were explained, that this will be very strong. No one will be able to bear it."
Sounds pretty cryptic. The government says it is a reference specifically to a terrorist attack, a bombing of some sort, even though Mohamed Al-Bakri admits that it was in fact a reference to that, but it may be that he was describing a sentiment over there, or the talk that was over there. Whether he or anybody else having direct involvement for a planed terrorist act or knowledge of it, that has not been introduced in evidence, and of course that's going to be a very important point.
As you point out, the judge will rule today presumably on whether or not these men get out on bond, and he is indicated by the questions that he has been asking, is that he fully intends to hear out the defense. The government, on the other hand, says that these men are risks of flight, they are dangerous to the community.
Let's listen to the prosecutor:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM HOCHUL, ASST. U.S. ATTY.: There is evidence of continuing dangerousness of the community, and we supplied that evidence to the judge, and also a risk of flight, and that the danger to the community and the possibility of flight was so grave that there were no conditions or combination of conditions that would allow the court to ensure that the defendant would continue to show up in court if he was released.
Basically, Mr. Hochul says they went to Afghanistan before. They will do it again. We will see what the judge thinks again in less than three hours from now, Kris. That's the latest from here.
Back to you.
OSBORN: Jeff Flock, difficult to know exactly what meal might have meant.
Thanks very much.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Will the government be able to keep the six buffalo suspects behind bars? Joining us now with some legal insight into the bond hearing is Kendall Coffey, and he is a former federal prosecutor, and he's in our Miami bureau this morning.
Thanks a lot. Good to see you.
KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good to see you, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Prosecutors tried to make the case that the guys are a flight risk. Do you think they did a good job of establishing that?
COFFEY: I think they probably give it enough, although this is going to be a closer call than some of them, especially with respect to one of the defendants. The folks that spend five or even weeks or so training in Al Qaeda, learning to use guns, learning to use explosives, hearing about the mission of killing Americans, I think they are not going to get bond. That's a very tough sell.
One of the group left after 10 days, and the judge's questioning indicating that it may be someone with a different look if the judge concludes it is someone that lost interest, renounced, et cetera, but when you look at these individuals as they're known in their community, they're good folks, they're peaceful folks, but according to the government, there is a secret life in which they signed off and learned how to participate with the worst of the worst of America's enemies.
WHITFIELD: In fact, you talk about at least one of them who departed the camp rather early. It is likely that the defense will offer that this is evidence that perhaps these young men were duped, they didn't know what they were getting into, and they defense might likely try to make the case that this is why the guys left the camp a little bit earlier.
Would you buy that?
COFFEY: The one that left after 10 days has got a shot, but why does anyone stick around for five, or six or seven weeks learning about explosives and guns. Getting duped into something like that? Not very plausible. So I think the likelihood is they will all be denied bond. If anyone is granted bond, I think it could be Awan (ph), if indeed he left early and he's able to present that his circumstances suggested he did not want anything to do with this after he found out more about what was going on at the Al-Faruq training camp.
WHITFIELD: This bond hearing does seem to be taking an awful lot of time. We don't usually see them go into day two. This isn't a trial, so it's not likely that prosecutors are going to be or would have to submit any sort of evidence, correct?
COFFEY: Exactly, the prosecution does not have to prove their case, as your correspondent described moments ago. There are two issues here: dangerousness to the community and risk of flight. It's a very preliminary threshold, and this hearing has gone on in detail, which I think indicates that the judge has an opened mind.
WHITFIELD: How interesting is it going to be that the defense will try to make the case that not only do we have family members that say they are willing to keep a close watch of these young guys, but that the entire community in this Lackawanna suburb of Buffalo, many of the people say that these are respectable young guys and they have a fairly good reputation. How much might that weigh in on the judge's decision?
COFFEY: I think that is important. But what I think that the judge is going to see is the side of the evidence that even these friends and family didn't know. They did not know that the men as people learning the tools of the trade of terrorism. They saw a different side of them. And in fact these defendants apparently disguised what they were doing for all purposes. No one knew what they were doing. So the fact that people knew nothing about their secret life and their attempted secret careers as terrorist trainees still believing them, I do not think this is necessarily going to carry the day.
WHITFIELD: All right, Kendall Coffey, good to see you again. Thanks very much.
COFFEY: Thanks, Fredricka.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
